CHANGES: Rd 17 vs Port Adelaide

[drysdale demon 4,837]

Have you been on the majak mushrooms

 

[jnrmac 20,104]

4 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Earlier in the year we were holding the ball in our fwd 50. It seems this aspect has dropped off. And that is Spargo Kozzie ANB Fritta plus the wings and mids helping out.

GWS exited pretty easily and thats a concern.

I was looking for stats on this and found the following. We are definitely not holding the ball i50 like we were:

The Demons were ranked the fifth over the first 14 weeks for retention per inside 50 entry. That has dropped to 11th over the past fortnight.

[demon3165 2,726]

2 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I was looking for stats on this and found the following. We are definitely not holding the ball i50 like we were:

The Demons were ranked the fifth over the first 14 weeks for retention per inside 50 entry. That has dropped to 11th over the past fortnight.

Not surprising as we have no functioning forward line but when you have the forward line coach say we don't know our best makeup then we will be in deep @@it

[DubDee 25,915]

15 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I was looking for stats on this and found the following. We are definitely not holding the ball i50 like we were:

The Demons were ranked the fifth over the first 14 weeks for retention per inside 50 entry. That has dropped to 11th over the past fortnight.

interesting

having an additional tall in the fwd line will not improve this either, which I guess is why they are so reluctant to bring BB back in

[adonski 12,216]

37 minutes ago, Supermercado said:

I don't understand why people treat Brown like Juice Newton. He kicks five goals in two games, has one ordinary outing and gets written off. Can we try and get the guy who's won the Coleman and kicked 10 in a game going first before opening the last resort envelope? 

Perception is everything. If Brown moved as gracefully as a Swan and had the moviestar looks of Josh Kennedy he'd be lauded as a superstar waiting in the reserves. But people have short memories...and kicked 5 goals in the first two games, not sure if Weid kicked 5 in his entire stint in the side? Kennedy is as boring as they come and dare I say it not a defensive beast but doesn't seem to cop any of the criticisms Brown does. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

24 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I was looking for stats on this and found the following. We are definitely not holding the ball i50 like we were:

The Demons were ranked the fifth over the first 14 weeks for retention per inside 50 entry. That has dropped to 11th over the past fortnight.

In that time, anecdotally, we've gone from direct footy to slow around the boundary, giving the opposition more time to set up. I wouldn't put all the blame for this stat on the forwards IMO.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

Just watched the replay. The best change we can make is an operation to have the cojoined twins in Gawn and Jackson seperated.

The game time those two were next to each other in marking comps was very high.

And it wasnt in our fwd line.

So effectively we played with two fwds.

Tmac played well but mostly up the grouund as a roving chf which left Friita as our only tall

Make that one fwd.....and he is not that tall.

Gws defence never had it so easy.

The irony of bombing it in like we had a chorus line of big men waiting to take a grab.

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by leave it to deever

[Boots and all 1,000]

3 hours ago, Antioch said:

BB played well the week before in the VFL. He kicked 5 goals. This week he was 50% on the bench. That wasn’t his call!!!

Well looks like he's in for the Port game. [censored] me that these stats aren't available on the Dees website. Hopefully he can snag a few.

[Boots and all 1,000]

9 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Just watched the replay. The best change we can make is an operation to have the cojoined twins in Gawn and Jackson seperated.

The game time those two were next to each other in marking comps was very high.

And it wasnt in our fwd line.

So effectively we played with two fwds.

Tmac played well but mostly up the grouund as a roving chf which left Friita as our only tall

Make that one fwd.....and he is not that tall.

Gws defence never had it so easy.

The irony of bombing it in like we had a chorus line of big men waiting to take a grab.

 

Yeah, I don't get why the resting ruck isn't providing a deep option up forward to inflict some accountability.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

interesting

having an additional tall in the fwd line will not improve this either, which I guess is why they are so reluctant to bring BB back in

Not if he is replacing a mid who doesn't play big minutes inside 50 DD.  Thinking Sparrow here.

It comes down to the smaller brigade of Kozzie/Spargo turning up the wick along with some assists from, LJ, Macca and any mids who happen to be pushing forward at the time the ball is turned over. 

Tracc's pressure inside 50 / around the arc on the weekend was terrible and he may not of been alone.  I just happened to notice him on a few occasions from the Punt Rd end and it wasn't pretty.  Room for improvement all round to help lock the ball in and/or prevent clean transition off HB a little more often.

What his inclusion might allow will be more rest time for a young rookie in LJ and possibly some more time dropping back to assist the defenders (Gawny).  As well as a bit more break time on the bench.  Also less time pushing forward.  Keeping those two (Gawny & LJ) a little more fresh might make them more potent in general.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Rusty Nails

[Supermercado 2,797]

58 minutes ago, adonski said:

Perception is everything. If Brown moved as gracefully as a Swan and had the moviestar looks of Josh Kennedy he'd be lauded as a superstar waiting in the reserves. But people have short memories...and kicked 5 goals in the first two games, not sure if Weid kicked 5 in his entire stint in the side? Kennedy is as boring as they come and dare I say it not a defensive beast but doesn't seem to cop any of the criticisms Brown does. 

Weid has kicked six in his last 10 starts. I desperately want him to become a key player but he went missing towards the end of last year (after quite a few good games) and has never been found.

[Fat Tony 5,247]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

Hunt might be quick and Bowey might be a half-back but those IMO aren't good enough reasons to make a change to our core back six.

We don't have the time to try throwing Bowey into our backline with the challenging opponents we have in the hope he can gel with the others. 

There are other ways we can re-jig our forward half that don't involve disrupting the back half. Whether it's including Brown, or swapping one of Spargo/ANB/Harmes/Sparrow for someone like Melksham, or rotating Pickett further up the ground, or using Gawn more at FF (and ensuring that those who are running inside 50 like Hunt was on Saturday recognise his presence and kick it to him), there are options to work with. 

While maintaining the same back 7 is preferable, I really like what Bowey has shown in the VFL. Fast, skilful and courageous. He is good at getting up in the marking contests as well. Also, it as not as if the small back role is as disruptive as changing May, Petty or Lever. 

In the forward half, I am guessing Ben Brown will come in. However, I don't think the key forwards were the issue on Saturday other than they didn't kick straight. The issues are really our small forwards and centre clearances. 

I don't think bringing in Brown is necessarily the answer if we are asking him to play under this system. Our ball movement is either very slow and predictable on one side of the ground or quick on the counterattack down the middle or on the open wing. We don't need another tall forward for the slow ball movement because Gawn, TMac and Jackson are so mobile that they can push from contest to contest. For fast ball movement, Fritsch is a good target because he has plenty of space.

[bobby1554 1,244]

2 hours ago, Steamin Demon said:

Your first two sentences are enough for me. Just look at who those teams played. 

I assume by “those teams” you are referring to Brisbane and Geelong? Not quite sure what your point is, given that Geelong beat Essendon by 7 goals, and Brisbane by 9 against a team we lost to.

[DubDee 25,915]

30 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Not if he is replacing a mid who doesn't play big minutes inside 50 DD.  Thinking Sparrow here.

It comes down to the smaller brigade of Kozzie/Spargo turning up the wick along with some assists from, LJ, Macca and any mids who happen to be pushing forward at the time the ball is turned over. 

Tracc's pressure inside 50 / around the arc on the weekend was terrible and he may not of been alone.  I just happened to notice him on a few occasions from the Punt Rd end and it wasn't pretty.  Room for improvement all round to help lock the ball in and/or prevent clean transition off HB a little more often.

What his inclusion might allow will be more rest time for a young rookie in LJ and possibly some more time dropping back to assist the defenders (Gawny).  As well as a bit more break time on the bench.  Also less time pushing forward.  Keeping those two (Gawny & LJ) a little more fresh might make them more potent in general.

I see what you’re saying but it would still mean Brown, T Mac, LJ and Fritsch in the fwd line. Overall our fwd line would be taller and less mobile even if some compensating changes were made

[WA Demon Boy 966]

Would love to give Bowey a run at it 

We also need to inject something different in our mids

Harmes, Jordon, Viney and Sparrow are all one paced and alike

Would kill for some outside silk and class

 

[Adam The God 30,275]

2 hours ago, stynewillalwaysbeonthevine said:

Just came across an interesting stat when I noticed Lever had spent most time on ground in the comp this year. 

We have 7 of the top 34 players across the league. Seems high. 

Lever, Langdon & May make sense given roles and fitness. However - Clarry, Petracca and Gawn definitely surprised me.

Bulldogs only have Keath. Lions only have Andrews, Daniher, Hipwood. 

Most players on this list are key position forward or back. 

I think we are struggling at clearance because the big 3 are exhausted. I think we need to mix it up in the middle, increase rotations which we seemed to be doing more of earlier in the year (ie pickett rotating through midfield). 

While the game has less rotations and resting mids forward/back is becoming more common, the reality is we are leaving our star mids out there for longer than other teams.

Yep, good stuff. I think I agree RE mids tiring. I'm convinced we're using our carefully managed TOG to load within games though, rather than loading during training.

I was going through the TOGs of all our young players (Spargo, Jordon, Sparrow, Kozzy) at quarter time on the weekend using the AFL ap and they'd all played approximately 50% of the first quarter. 

Looking at the stats by the end of the game, they looked like this: Sparrow (55%), Jordon (65%), Kozzy (67%), Spargo (71%) and Rivers (73%), with Harmes (72%) and Gus (75%). Viney had 77% TOG, having had 74% his first week back, so they're ramping him up for a big game this week, I'd say.

In Round 10, Jordon had TOG of 59% (the loss to Adelaide) and still managed to lay a staggering 9 tackles. His TOG in that game seems to be a strategic decision in the lead up to the Bulldogs and then Brisbane games. In Round 9 against Carlton he played 73%. Against Bulldogs he played 70%, then up to 86% against Brisbane (as a wingman) and then back down to 57% the following week again Collingwood. We then had the bye and he played 62% (our second lowest TOG that day) against Essendon and 65% against GWS. Going from how we played him against the Bulldogs and Brisbane, and off a 5 day break, I'd expect him to play 70%+ this week.

And while I'm on Jordon, his tackling pressure around the ball was super important through the first 11 rounds (he didn't lay a tackle against Brisbane, playing 86% TOG as a wingman, which I'm sure was more about keeping his width) and has plateaued since, only laying 5 tackles since the Bulldogs game. He was getting 5 or 6 tackles a week earlier in the season. Whilst Viney gives us good tackling around the ball, he's not as smart or as clean at Jordon and I think this is really impacting on our midfield as Jordon's dip in tackling numbers have coincided with lesser performances against Collingwood, Essendon and GWS. It's not all on JJ of course, but his tackling support to Oliver, Petracca and Harmes/Viney is vital and made us the defensive beast we were earlier in the season.

But back to the TOG stuff. We've been managing Rivers in a similar way to Jordon. Against Adelaide he had 74% TOG, down from 81% against Carlton. For the Bulldogs match, he was up again at 85% TOG (I'd suggest we wanted to keep continuity in our back 6 for that game), and then against Brisbane he was back down again at 71% TOG and 67% against Collingwood. We then had the bye and he played only 70% against Essendon and 73% against GWS. I reckon he'll be up in the 80%+ this week against Port.

It seems clear this is how we're managing 3 to 4 players a week from about Round 13 onwards, so it could point to our patchy form since then. Sparrow is playing very low TOG. Jordon, Spargo and Rivers are all being managed through this middle part of the season. Add the inclusions throughout the middle part of the season with Weideman, Brown, Viney and Harmes (who all had interrupted pre seasons or early injuries this year) who have all had carefully managed TOG.

This means that Lever, May, Langdon, Gawn and Petracca are playing very high TOG every week to compensate for these younger players and the guys coming back into the team. It could well be impacting their performances. Even from a concentration levels perspective. If Gawn and Petracca are regularly playing 90% TOG as mids and resting forwards, I wonder if it's impacting on their focus at stoppages?

Who knows, I doubt even the players can be quite sure what impact their TOG is having, but it's no doubt that we're managing loads throughout games. Apparently Goodwin has said we haven't been managing loads, so I presume he means training loads, so it'll be interesting to see whether Jordon, Spargo and Rivers can return to some form over the coming weeks. We desperately need them to if we're going to finish top 2 or top 4.

[Fat Tony 5,247]

33 minutes ago, A F said:

Yep, good stuff. I think I agree RE mids tiring. I'm convinced we're using our carefully managed TOG to load within games though, rather than loading during training.

I was going through the TOGs of all our young players (Spargo, Jordon, Sparrow, Kozzy) at quarter time on the weekend using the AFL ap and they'd all played approximately 50% of the first quarter. 

Looking at the stats by the end of the game, they looked like this: Sparrow (55%), Jordon (65%), Kozzy (67%), Spargo (71%) and Rivers (73%), with Harmes (72%) and Gus (75%). Viney had 77% TOG, having had 74% his first week back, so they're ramping him up for a big game this week, I'd say.

In Round 10, Jordon had TOG of 59% (the loss to Adelaide) and still managed to lay a staggering 9 tackles. His TOG in that game seems to be a strategic decision in the lead up to the Bulldogs and then Brisbane games. In Round 9 against Carlton he played 73%. Against Bulldogs he played 70%, then up to 86% against Brisbane (as a wingman) and then back down to 57% the following week again Collingwood. We then had the bye and he played 62% (our second lowest TOG that day) against Essendon and 65% against GWS. Going from how we played him against the Bulldogs and Brisbane, and off a 5 day break, I'd expect him to play 70%+ this week.

And while I'm on Jordon, his tackling pressure around the ball was super important through the first 11 rounds (he didn't lay a tackle against Brisbane, playing 86% TOG as a wingman, which I'm sure was more about keeping his width) and has plateaued since, only laying 5 tackles since the Bulldogs game. He was getting 5 or 6 tackles a week earlier in the season. Whilst Viney gives us good tackling around the ball, he's not as smart or as clean at Jordon and I think this is really impacting on our midfield as Jordon's dip in tackling numbers have coincided with lesser performances against Collingwood, Essendon and GWS. It's not all on JJ of course, but his tackling support to Oliver, Petracca and Harmes/Viney is vital and made us the defensive beast we were earlier in the season.

But back to the TOG stuff. We've been managing Rivers in a similar way to Jordon. Against Adelaide he had 74% TOG, down from 81% against Carlton. For the Bulldogs match, he was up again at 85% TOG (I'd suggest we wanted to keep continuity in our back 6 for that game), and then against Brisbane he was back down again at 71% TOG and 67% against Collingwood. We then had the bye and he played only 70% against Essendon and 73% against GWS. I reckon he'll be up in the 80%+ this week against Port.

It seems clear this is how we're managing 3 to 4 players a week from about Round 13 onwards, so it could point to our patchy form since then. Sparrow is playing very low TOG. Jordon, Spargo and Rivers are all being managed through this middle part of the season. Add the inclusions throughout the middle part of the season with Weideman, Brown, Viney and Harmes (who all had interrupted pre seasons or early injuries this year) who have all had carefully managed TOG.

This means that Lever, May, Langdon, Gawn and Petracca are playing very high TOG every week to compensate for these younger players and the guys coming back into the team. It could well be impacting their performances. Even from a concentration levels perspective. If Gawn and Petracca are regularly playing 90% TOG as mids and resting forwards, I wonder if it's impacting on their focus at stoppages?

Who knows, I doubt even the players can be quite sure what impact their TOG is having, but it's no doubt that we're managing loads throughout games. Apparently Goodwin has said we haven't been managing loads, so I presume he means training loads, so it'll be interesting to see whether Jordon, Spargo and Rivers can return to some form over the coming weeks. We desperately need them to if we're going to finish top 2 or top 4.

My solution is to play Petracca forward 70/30 and less minutes for Gawn. Jordon deserves more game time. 

[bobby1554 1,244]

Heard that neither Brown or Weideman took part in forward training drills today. Read into that what you will. For mine, I would say neither is playing Thursday.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, bobby1554 said:

Heard that neither Brown or Weideman took part in forward training drills today. Read into that what you will. For mine, I would say neither is playing Thursday.

Wednesday would be the day to watch. IMO it would be a light week given the short turnaround, captain's run Wednesday will be the decider I reckon.

[Adam The God 30,275]

2 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

My solution is to play Petracca forward 70/30 and less minutes for Gawn. Jordon deserves more game time. 

I don't think playing Petracca in the middle less will help our stoppage inconsistencies though. But I do agree that he's better as a burst mid like Martin. I'm not sure defending is his go at stoppages. Not for large portions of the game anyway. Maybe I've contradicted myself there? :P

Edited July 5, 2021 by A F

[Lord Nev 13,512]

2 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

My solution is to play Petracca forward 70/30 and less minutes for Gawn. Jordon deserves more game time. 

“They have got a 10/10 forward. His name’s (Christian) Petracca. Is he best served being a 10/10 or 9/10 forward?” Healy asked on Fox Footy.

The move could solve two problems at once. Petracca leads the AFL with 110 inside 50s, but just 11 of his kicks inside 50 have been marked; he ranks 47th of the top 50 for efficiency.

In contrast, Brisbane star Hugh McCluggage leads the AFL with a 36 per cent inside 50 mark rate.

 

No forward better than a seven, gun-turned-butcher: Dees’ flaws that may cruel flag bid

[demonique 314]

Out Viney ,  and perhaps Sparrow and in ,a tall and Vanders .

Need  Kossie at the drop of an attempted  mark that BB is sure to spill . 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by demonique

[jnrmac 20,104]

5 hours ago, DubDee said:

interesting

having an additional tall in the fwd line will not improve this either, which I guess is why they are so reluctant to bring BB back in

I think it will. Early in the year theball was being brought to ground allowing our crumbers and pressure players to hold it in there.

That doesn't seem to be happening as we look to hit targets more

[spirit of norm smith 16,477]

4 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

Just watched the replay. The best change we can make is an operation to have the cojoined twins in Gawn and Jackson seperated.

The game time those two were next to each other in marking comps was very high.

And it wasnt in our fwd line.

So effectively we played with two fwds.

Tmac played well but mostly up the grouund as a roving chf which left Friita as our only tall

Make that one fwd.....and he is not that tall.

Gws defence never had it so easy.

The irony of bombing it in like we had a chorus line of big men waiting to take a grab.

 

Thank you. Whether it be BBB or Weid, we might a Full Forward to give the team a marking target. Tmcd plays up the ground and the traditional CHF role with his aerobic fitness. Neither Gawn nor LJ are genuinely forwards. 

[Docs Demons 1,792]

We need Ben Brown in big time. He will take their main defender in Jonas I would suspect and he will straighten us up giving TMac/Fritta etc. the chance to roam and be more potent plus allowing the smalls to shark off Brown. By the way the smalls have to be in the right spots not under the talls feet but 10-20 yards away to grab the spoils.