POSTGAME: Rd 12 vs Brisbane

[Adam The God 30,639]

13 hours ago, Purple77 said:

Apologies if it has been mentioned already - but is anyone else still thinking about that amazing handball by Clarry that lead to  Sparrow's goal in Q4? It was out on the wing after the ultra intelligent highball by Salem, because we only had ANB vs 4 Lions ahead, that allowed enough time for Clarry to swoop in and give an amazing handball to ANB (who also did an amazing job to halve the contest), who then released to Trac, and... it was all over after that.

Just awesome. Awesome.

I expect this from Oliver now and I almost don't think about it, because he does something like this every week.

But something I did notice that is the very Richmondesque was the Salem kick and Rivers kick earlier in the game.

It hasn't been overly evident, but we've been doing these sort of kicks for a while now. It's the Richmond blueprint, where the kick goes high up, almost rugby-like, so that crumbers can get to the fall of the contest. I love that we're getting smarter with all these little things. Even the little paddles, kicks off the ground and taps to surge it forward.

As our confidence is growing, we're seeing a little bit of Hawthorn, a little bit of Richmond and even a little bit of Bulldogs circa 2016 with that chain of handballs that led to McDonald's sealer.

One of the other things that we're doing really well all over the ground is not getting sucked into the contest. We're holding our shape on the outside. 

A few of the footy shows talked about us "trusting the tackler". This was noticeable again regularly against Brisbane - particularly in the second half.

There was a contest in the third that Oliver would have previously charged in for, but instead left for ANB, who ended up giving away the free kick, but the idea was right. If ANB wins it, Clarry is on the outside to receive.

The situation you refer to with Salem's kick is similar. All the Brisbane players get sucked into the contest and they get smashed on the outside. This is part of what makes them look slow and part of what made us look slow for years.

Conversely, if you're receiving in space because you've held your width from the contest, you always look a lot quicker bursting away from the contest. This is Ed Langdon's game to a tee.

Edited June 6, 2021 by A F

[Dees2014 2,377]

On 6/5/2021 at 7:26 AM, Baghdad Bob said:

Interestingly Sparrow had 19 disposals from 58% game time and without doing the maths I’d imagine that was the greatest disposals per game time of anyone. 
 

Great effort and needs to be recognised. 

Yes he is all quality that kid.

[Dees2014 2,377]

On 6/5/2021 at 4:16 PM, Jaded said:

Dermie is an old sad loser desperately trying to hang onto whatever tiny relevance he has left. 
His “analysis” is about as in depth as a shallow pool of horse crap. 

Yes I rate Dermie, along with Billy Brownless, as the dumbest footy commentators  we are subject to each week. You can put Tony Jones in there as well. But then again, Channel Nine  always goes to the lowest common denominator.....

[loges 6,767]

Just moved to NSW for family reasons. Can anyone advise where to park at the SCG. Much appreciated.

[Kent 2,920]

6 hours ago, A F said:

I expect this from Oliver now and I almost don't think about it, because he does something like this every week.

But something I did notice that is the very Richmondesque was the Salem kick and Rivers kick earlier in the game.

It hasn't been overly evident, but we've been doing these sort of kicks for a while now. It's the Richmond blueprint, where the kick goes high up, almost rugby-like, so that crumbers can get to the fall of the contest. I love that we're getting smarter with all these little things. Even the little paddles, kicks off the ground and taps to surge it forward.

As our confidence is growing, we're seeing a little bit of Hawthorn, a little bit of Richmond and even a little bit of Bulldogs circa 2016 with that chain of handballs that led to McDonald's sealer.

One of the other things that we're doing really well all over the ground is not getting sucked into the contest. We're holding our shape on the outside. 

A few of the footy shows talked about us "trusting the tackler". This was noticeable again regularly against Brisbane - particularly in the second half.

There was a contest in the third that Oliver would have previously charged in for, but instead left for ANB, who ended up giving away the free kick, but the idea was right. If ANB wins it, Clarry is on the outside to receive.

The situation you refer to with Salem's kick is similar. All the Brisbane players get sucked into the contest and they get smashed on the outside. This is part of what makes them look slow and part of what made us look slow for years.

Conversely, if you're receiving in space because you've held your width from the contest, you always look a lot quicker bursting away from the contest. This is Ed Langdon's game to a tee.

That is why we need to carefull when integrating Viney or Jones back into the midfield

That contest would have had 3 players trying to get the pill

The midfield is playing very well with a lot of trust in the single ball getter while others wait just outside 

Works well don't change it

[Sydee 4,655]

34 minutes ago, loges said:

Just moved to NSW for family reasons. Can anyone advise where to park at the SCG. Much appreciated.

Try Wilson parking Entertainment Centre at Moore Park I think it’s Lang Street that’s what I plan to do 

[monoccular 17,695]

On 6/5/2021 at 9:36 PM, Pates said:

It's funny you mention those two, they are clearly a part of the older crew of commentators/experts who are part of the "old boys" club. They all have the same outdated attitudes, not just towards the way they speak but also towards the game. They constantly talk about "in years gone by" and the way they used to play, they need to be reminded by younger commentators and former players that the game has changed.

It's actually embarrassing at times to hear them speak.

One of the things that these troglodytes seem to

live is the elbow to the back of the head in a marking contest -“wow, that was tough”. I wonder if they ever reflect on their late workmate, Danny, whose battle with recurrent head traumas cost him his life.  

On 6/6/2021 at 12:06 AM, DeeSpencer said:

It was bad but typical Tom to not give that one off. I don't think it's selfishness but more just the way he plays. If he sees a way for him to get a kick generally that's what he does. 

The funny thing is Tracc isn't exactly one to handball in that situation either. 

Overall I'd like to see a bit more sharing from our forwards, it's something to work on, particularly if we can ever get an easy kill (not that I'm complaining).

We've improved so much with the tap ons or blocks to free other players up, there's probably just another step to go to nail that ability to give the right amount of handballs or square up kicks. 

Kossie has been “guilty” of unselfishness though a bit less so recently. 

20 hours ago, Pollyanna said:

Raised by @Hannibal on BF - "young Lions" is a myth:

Average Attributes
	Melbourne	Attribute	Brisbane
	188.0cm	Height	187.9cm
	86.5kg	Weight	87.0kg
	24yr 9mth	Age	26yr 2mth
	88.9	Games	111.8

I think it may have been mentioned - but the media drool over the “baby bombers” when our top of the table list is younger. 

17 hours ago, jnrmac said:

I have never thought Daniher was the superstar they made him out to be. If he could fix his kicking perhaps.....

And quite a few lazy spots in his gamne against us. Didn't run and chase ...

Daniher I think has very limited “footy intelligence” (if that isn’t an oxymoron.). Does some really dumb things from time to time. 

[TRIGON 4,796]

Another win that builds genuine self-belief in the playing group. Brisbane were excellent in the first half and I was genuinely concerned at half time. Really impressed with the way we came back, especially the overlap running.

Bring on the Pies.

[loges 6,767]

1 hour ago, Sydee said:

Try Wilson parking Entertainment Centre at Moore Park I think it’s Lang Street that’s what I plan to do 

Thank you will do.

[Adam The God 30,639]

Does anyone have the stats for experience of our team versus Essendon's? I want to send it to an Essendon muppet mate of mine.

[TRIGON 4,796]

24 minutes ago, A F said:

Does anyone have the stats for experience of our team versus Essendon's? I want to send it to an Essendon muppet mate of mine.

Careful, make sure you compare on games played and not age. After-all, the injections were carried out at an anti-ageing centre.

[titan_uranus 25,203]

43 minutes ago, A F said:

Does anyone have the stats for experience of our team versus Essendon's? I want to send it to an Essendon muppet mate of mine.

[Adam The God 30,639]

2 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Thanks mate. Bugger. It's not perfect given we've played more games, still maybe it might shut up a few RE "Baby Bombers".

[titan_uranus 25,203]

19 minutes ago, A F said:

Thanks mate. Bugger. It's not perfect given we've played more games, still maybe it might shut up a few RE "Baby Bombers".

Old + inexperienced is IMO the worst possible combination for a side that is mid-table.

8 of their 23 on the weekend were aged 27+ (Hooker, Zaharakis, Phillips, Ambrose, Heppell, AMT, Stewart and Stringer). 

For comparison, 5 of our 22 on the weekend were aged 27+ (Hibberd, Melksham, Gawn, May, TMac). 

[Adam The God 30,639]

8 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Old + inexperienced is IMO the worst possible combination for a side that is mid-table.

8 of their 23 on the weekend were aged 27+ (Hooker, Zaharakis, Phillips, Ambrose, Heppell, AMT, Stewart and Stringer). 

For comparison, 5 of our 22 on the weekend were aged 27+ (Hibberd, Melksham, Gawn, May, TMac). 

Agreed. 

[Damo 3,439]

This has probably already been commented on, but Wayne carey is getting worse. At one point he called James Jordon "Jordan Lewis" and followed it up later by calling Tom MacDonald "James MacDonald".

[Axis of Bob 11,912]

14 hours ago, A F said:

One of the other things that we're doing really well all over the ground is not getting sucked into the contest. We're holding our shape on the outside. 

A few of the footy shows talked about us "trusting the tackler". This was noticeable again regularly against Brisbane - particularly in the second half.

This is the most important difference between being a consistently top team and not. 

It's the 'trust' that top teams develop that if you do the right thing and hold your structure, rather than winning the ball like a hero, then things will work out. This is so hard to do because it so counter-intuitive to how a footballer thinks about football. You become a good footballer by winning contested football, so holding your position when the ball isn't coming near you is really difficult to do. If something doesn't go your way or you're not getting the ball the instinct is to do something to fix it because it's hard to trust that, overall, you're better off not doing something. It's hard to hold back, see something go wrong which costs a goal, CV and have the discipline to do golf back the next time. But good teams do it, win and then have the win reinforce the value of doing it. 

It one of those things that is really, really hard to do at first, but if you do it then the winning makes it easy to keep doing it.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Axis of Bob
Added a bit.

[Demon17 5,229]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

Old + inexperienced is IMO the worst possible combination for a side that is mid-table.

8 of their 23 on the weekend were aged 27+ (Hooker, Zaharakis, Phillips, Ambrose, Heppell, AMT, Stewart and Stringer). 

For comparison, 5 of our 22 on the weekend were aged 27+ (Hibberd, Melksham, Gawn, May, TMac). 

Of which 4 of the 5 are or were AA standard. Their's are hacks now except AMT

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,326]

11 hours ago, Dees2014 said:

Yes I rate Dermie, along with Billy Brownless, as the dumbest footy commentators  we are subject to each week. You can put Tony Jones in there as well. But then again, Channel Nine  always goes to the lowest common denominator.....

Dermie is an absolute moron. Nothing more pathetic than a meathead trying to sound intelligent.

As for him trying to look young ... 

At least Billy doesn't try to be anything other than his true self. Had a conversation with him years ago outside the G. What you see is what you get.

Jones ...  dreadful ... and stupid.

[Adam The God 30,639]

37 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

This is the most important difference between being a consistently top team and not. 

It's the 'trust' that top teams develop that if you do the right thing and hold your structure, rather than winning the ball like a hero, then things will work out. This is so hard to do because it so counter-intuitive to how a footballer thinks about football. You become a good footballer by winning contested football, so holding your position when the ball isn't coming near you is really difficult to do. But good teams do it, win and then have the win reinforce the value of doing it. 

It one of those things that is really, really hard to do at first, but if you do it then the winning makes it easy to keep doing it.

Yep, totally. It's almost that reprogramming that you (or maybe it was someone else) was talking about with regards to how McCartney would coach our mids, versus how they're coached now.

Oliver's natural game and instinct is to go in and win everything, just like Viney and Harmes, but it's making Clarry's game so much more rounded as he's getting it on the inside and outside, and is able to burst away and use his explosiveness from stoppage.

I could be wrong, but Harmes and Viney have tweaked the way they play too.

Given our guys are such dominant contested players, the trust can be built easily and it elevates our entire midfield group.

Petracca, Oliver, Harmes and Viney are all difficult to tackle. It's a bit of a nightmare for the opposition. If our guys are all switched on, this will be a dominant midfield group for the next 5 or so years.

Edited June 7, 2021 by A F

[Nelo 813]

5 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

how do you get these stats?

[Harrisonrules 273]

On 6/4/2021 at 10:38 PM, ucanchoose said:

Go and have a spell.   A very long spell

Melk is on the edge so is Weid. But they are demons. Melk has given his all  for several years. Remember the finals in 2018. He gave us a lot of pleasure. I feel for him that he and Jonesy and Jetta will probably  miss the finals after all they have given for us to get us here. If you cannot respect them, then stop writing

[Axis of Bob 11,912]

 

24 minutes ago, A F said:

Oliver's natural game and instinct is to go in and win everything, just like Viney and Harmes, but it's making Clarry's game so much more rounded as he's getting it on the inside and outside, and is able to burst away and use his explosiveness from stoppage.

I could be wrong, but Harmes and Viney have tweaked the way they play too.

Viney has certainly tweaked how he plays since he started. He would attack every football in sight in his early years and won B&Fs as a ball winning mid. With Oliver becoming our number 1 midfielder, Viney's possessions have dropped off but his B&F finishes are consistently at the top end, especially when considering the time he's missed. He won the ball fewer than 20 times a game last year and had lower stats nearly across the board .... but still came 3rd in the B&F behind Petracca and May. That's why I'm always interested in the B&F results (and selection) because it gives a great insight into what specific players were being asked to do.

Remember how Oliver won the ball like it was going out of fashion last year? He won it 25 times a game (shortened games) and came top 10 in the Brownlow. He finish 5th in the B&F, 2 spots behind Viney despite playing fewer games. Demonland members nearly burned the website down when they saw that! But it's clear looking back that Oliver was attacking too many contests that he didn't need to and we were suffering as a result. Ironically it's now allowing him to win more footy, more contested footy and more clearances. More importantly, if you're looking at role changes from last year, he's averaging nearly 5 times the scoring shots, 60% more rebounds, 45% more inside 50s and his team is 11-1.

[58er 6,845]

13 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

 

Viney has certainly tweaked how he plays since he started. He would attack every football in sight in his early years and won B&Fs as a ball winning mid. With Oliver becoming our number 1 midfielder, Viney's possessions have dropped off but his B&F finishes are consistently at the top end, especially when considering the time he's missed. He won the ball fewer than 20 times a game last year and had lower stats nearly across the board .... but still came 3rd in the B&F behind Petracca and May. That's why I'm always interested in the B&F results (and selection) because it gives a great insight into what specific players were being asked to do.

Remember how Oliver won the ball like it was going out of fashion last year? He won it 25 times a game (shortened games) and came top 10 in the Brownlow. He finish 5th in the B&F, 2 spots behind Viney despite playing fewer games. Demonland members nearly burned the website down when they saw that! But it's clear looking back that Oliver was attacking too many contests that he didn't need to and we were suffering as a result. Ironically it's now allowing him to win more footy, more contested footy and more clearances. More importantly, if you're looking at role changes from last year, he's averaging nearly 5 times the scoring shots, 60% more rebounds, 45% more inside 50s and his team is 11-1.

All of our midfielders have changed their style somewhat tweaking or majorly like Clarry.

But the most important result is that ALL are impacting the result and coordinating as a major engine room with plenty of outside breakers who move the ball quicker and cleaner than we have ever before.

Reality is when  you look at our personnel is it any great surprise that once we have got  the mechanics right our on ballers are all able to damage the opposition in their own way. An absolute nightmare for other teams. I also believe we punish and execute in a speedier fashion than the more handball dominated Bulldogs fashion. 

[Fat Tony 5,322]

15 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

 

Viney has certainly tweaked how he plays since he started. He would attack every football in sight in his early years and won B&Fs as a ball winning mid. With Oliver becoming our number 1 midfielder, Viney's possessions have dropped off but his B&F finishes are consistently at the top end, especially when considering the time he's missed. He won the ball fewer than 20 times a game last year and had lower stats nearly across the board .... but still came 3rd in the B&F behind Petracca and May. That's why I'm always interested in the B&F results (and selection) because it gives a great insight into what specific players were being asked to do.

Remember how Oliver won the ball like it was going out of fashion last year? He won it 25 times a game (shortened games) and came top 10 in the Brownlow. He finish 5th in the B&F, 2 spots behind Viney despite playing fewer games. Demonland members nearly burned the website down when they saw that! But it's clear looking back that Oliver was attacking too many contests that he didn't need to and we were suffering as a result. Ironically it's now allowing him to win more footy, more contested footy and more clearances. More importantly, if you're looking at role changes from last year, he's averaging nearly 5 times the scoring shots, 60% more rebounds, 45% more inside 50s and his team is 11-1.

I think you are correct to say that Oliver has been a bit more willing to hold his position in the contest this year and wait for other players to get him the ball. The other players are also backing him in when it is his turn to go and so he isn't competing against our own side as much. Still, I this is only a part of his improvement.

I think the clarity of our game plan has really helped Oliver this year and while his clanger and turnover stats are similar to his career, it doesn't feel like he hast had as many bad turnovers that have cost us goals.

In our "slow" play around the Brayshaw boundary, the rigidity of the game plan means he is being asked to kick long to tall targets on the boundary unless there is something obvious on. In previous years, we were a bit more central in our ball movement and he would win more ball in "slow" play in the corridor, where he would look to go shorter with his kicks to a free man. This meant that some of his poor kicking was costly as we were ill prepared for a turnover. This really comes through in the distance gained statistic, where he is averaging 426m this year versus 299m over his career. Some of this is coming from run, but I think most is actually mostly from having more long kicks to contests in the back half. We are also playing a taller side this year which means that he always has a long option.

In our "fast" play, when we are counter attacking, he is able to use his pace and power and he usually makes good decisions.