Umps got it wrong - need a please explain

[Demon17 5,251]

9 hours ago, tiers said:

 

It has cost us 4 points and, heaven forbid, it might cost someone a flag.

The correct ladder at present had the 3 badly umpired games, so far this season, should be 

1. Melbourne

2. Bulldogs

3 Lions

4 Geelong

5. Power

6 Eagles

7 Giants

8 swans.

The AFL owns up each time but , in the great Australian tradition of not being accountable, (see Vacine rollout) Steve Hocking still has a job.

 

[leave it to deever 17,614]

11 hours ago, Redleg said:

It’s not a silly point and IMO highlights our attitude and lack of awareness. We were simply not switched on.

The players should all have been screaming to the umpires with hands outstretched. Then if the closest umpire doesn’t pay it one if the others might.

How often do we see teams appealing to the umpires for a free and it does work, though of course not always.

If a bunch of the closest Dees had visibly gesticulated for the free, the umpires would have known this would become an incident in the media and may have capitulated and paid it.

When the players act like they don’t care, it is the out for the umpires to avoid a blatant free against the home side, that could cost them the game.

In summary, our lack of reaction probably contributed to the umpires decision, even though of course it should have no effect, but as we know, it often does. 

Agreed. It was lazy not to appeal.

[jnrmac 20,338]

1 hour ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Rule does not say what happens if another player allows the ball go out. Just some feelgood about "best intentions". The umpire on the spot gets to invent the outcome.

Simon Lethlean from the AFL when they cracked down on deliberate in 2017 said all players must have endeavour to keep the ball in play. 

“It is really a genuine intent to keep the ball in. Players must make every endeavour to keeping the ball in and if they haven’t they are likely to get a free kick paid against them.

The free should have been paid against the Crow player not Lever 

[drdrake 3,203]

1 hour ago, leave it to deever said:

Agreed. It was lazy not to appeal.

That was the difference in the Lever on and this one.  Spargo should have ran and grabbed the ball looking at the umpire appealing.  That is what the Adelaide player did, he knew that if it went out the umpire was going to pay it, he was through his actions playing for the free before the ball went out.

One amendment to the DOB rule should be that if an opposition player has the option to take possession of the ball before it crosses the line it is a throw in, there needs to be an onus on the players to get the football and not play for the free 

[Ted Lasso 19,586]

Feel for the umpire a bit to be honest, it's clear he [censored] himself due to the moment and the crows crowd. hopefully the AFL is providing some support. 

honestly there are definitely umpires who dislike the MFC and tend to award free kicks accordingly, but i didn't see that in this game, to me this was a case of an umpire caught in a big moment and didn't handle it

 

[In Harmes Way 7,869]

This should have been the memo yesterday.

AFL: Umpire invented a nearby player to save his [censored]. We checked the video. This wasn't accurate. Sorry Dees fans for robbing you of a 56 year winning streak. Also sorry to anyone who might have put money on the dees in this game. Send us the bill. Our bad.

[sue 9,277]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

Simon Lethlean from the AFL when they cracked down on deliberate in 2017 said all players must have endeavour to keep the ball in play. 

“It is really a genuine intent to keep the ball in. Players must make every endeavour to keeping the ball in and if they haven’t they are likely to get a free kick paid against them.

The free should have been paid against the Crow player not Lever 

Unbelievable - if that is the 'interpretation' why is it not simply stated in the rules?  But even that statement is unclear.  Which players - all players, or the player disposing of the ball? 

What an amateur organization the AFL is despite its doubtless generous exec salaries.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

Its all about intent.

Its irrelevant if it brushed a few hairs on Spargos arm from the camera angle on the Grassy Knoll ! Its about the Adelaide players intent which was clear, even before Spargo got close to him.

[leave it to deever 17,614]

1 hour ago, Dwight Schrute said:

Feel for the umpire a bit to be honest, it's clear he [censored] himself due to the moment and the crows crowd. hopefully the AFL is providing some support. 

honestly there are definitely umpires who dislike the MFC and tend to award free kicks accordingly, but i didn't see that in this game, to me this was a case of an umpire caught in a big moment and didn't handle it

 

Fqir point. Its not easy with such a one sided crowd.

Very frustrating in such a clear case though but yea its not the first time an ump has been intimated by a crows crowd. Wont be the last.

It was amplified by the inconsistancy as well as the time and score of the game.

It determined the outcome.

I wish there was a five min law where decisions were under scrutiny in the last five mins with a close score but alas I think it would be impossible to have

 

We must make sure that for interstate games we have neutral umpires  maybe this one was.

Other than this not much can be done.

We could always just play better and not squander a good lead in five minutes.

I would like the Afl to look at the frees interstate clubs get at home grounds though.

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by leave it to deever

[Ted Lasso 19,586]

2 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Fqir point. Its not easy with such a one sided crowd.

Very frustrating it such a clear case though but yea its not the first time an ump has been intimated by a crows crowd. Wont be the last.

It was amplified by the inconsistancy as well as the time and score of the game.

It determined the outcome.

I wish there was a five min law where decisions were under scrutiny in the last five mins with a close score but alas I think it would be impossible to have

 

We must make sure that for interstate games we have neutral umpires  maybe this one was.

Othrr than this not much can be done.

We could always just play better and not squander a good lead in five minutes.

I would like the Afl to look at the frees interstate clubs get at home grounds though.

 

 

 

Honestly mate i just think the umpires need to simplify the rules as much as possible, make it hard for mistakes to happen. 

Like for example, i would support last touch in both 50's and only do throw ins on the wings, that way, in that situation, it'd be insane for the player to even attempt what he did. make the player HAVE to keep it in play, and forward 50 stoppages ususally cause a lot of congestion as well. 

with regards to holding the ball i think it's pretty simple. either eliminate prior opportunity completely, or simplify it so there is no margin for error. 

and with ducking/staging, i'd pay a free against, so if Joel Selwood does his thing and gets hit high, pay it to the tackler, because we want to eliminate staging from the game. 

[Webber 10,650]

3 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Fqir point. Its not easy with such a one sided crowd.

Very frustrating it such a clear case though but yea its not the first time an ump has been intimated by a crows crowd. Wont be the last.

It was amplified by the inconsistancy as well as the time and score of the game.

It determined the outcome.

I wish there was a five min law where decisions were under scrutiny in the last five mins with a close score but alas I think it would be impossible to have

 

We must make sure that for interstate games we have neutral umpires  maybe this one was.

Other than this not much can be done.

We could always just play better and not squander a good lead in five minutes.

I would like the Afl to look at the frees interstate clubs get at home grounds though.

 

 

 

They did look at it, without saying so, a few years ago when the media started getting antsy about the West Coast home ground imbalance. Since then West Coast’s Perth free kick disparity has evened up hugely. This proves they can attend to the problem. As we know, outside of West Coast games, it’s slipped horribly this year. I suspect it’s an umpire personality issue. Like players, umpires need to be picked for their ability to handle, if not be immune to FUHCI (Frank Unconscious Home Crowd Influence). If they can be coached into that immunity, which I’m sure many can, more’s the better. 

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

So we are 10-0 then.

Why haven't afl.com updated their ladder?

[deespicable me 1,584]

 

3 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

 

"Interpretation" is a bogus concept and it's one of the great con jobs that the AFL has everyone from Gil, Shocking, clubs, coaches, players, media and fans, accepting it as a normal part of the game. I'd like to know when it first reared its ugly head. It's a joke and a travesty.

It's like being at a school where the English teachers can't spell, and the maths teachers can't do arithmetic, and the school manages to convince the pupils and parents that that doesn't matter & it's a normal part of schooling ..... and those pupils & parents accept it as a frustrating but unavoidable part of the school experience.

"Interpretation" is utter bull-sh*t and should be eradicated from the game.

Sure but with the rules as they are at the moment they have to be interpretated. Unless you want to triple the frees being paid. There are quite often 2 or 3 frees at every contest that the umps let go.

You can't get rid of the grey. You have to interpret. When is a free a free. At what point does it become obvious. 

There is always an answer to a maths problem and a correct way to spell but a variety of ways to teach.

You can't lock it down. Unless you throw out the rules, strip it back and start again. (which has merit ).

It was a great game of footy on the weekend. Big crowd, great plays, great players, fast, lots of goals and a ridiculous crazy finish with high drama. I know we were duped but there would be lots of people happy with the game.

[Clintosaurus 7,953]

12 minutes ago, deespicable me said:

there would be lots of people happy with the game.

Who can all go [censored] themselves.

[AzzKikA 2,371]

We should have an appeals system like NRL does. 3 appeals per game

[binman 44,788]

Demonland's very own lace out (and skipper of an excellent you tube channel and podcast) is referenced in this article. Love the title:

https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl/borders-on-cheating-melbourne-fail-to-win-two-crucial-free-kicks-in-shock-one-point-loss-to-adelaide-ng-b881879550z?dc_data=6594903_samsung-carnival-australia-english&utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=referral&ui=d0d9279a-60d8-4e2f-b351-7f38ba6bb02a-tuct7a5dc37

[Jaded No More 68,976]

It is actually mind blowing that umpires are not full time professionals, when so much money goes into betting on games.

It is also mind blowing that time and again 'home ground' umpires make blatantly wrong decisions against the away interstate club.

How about we make a rule that when a team is visiting from interstate, all umpires must be neutral, that is they must be from a third state. Also lets get the umpires better security, so they aren't scared to make correct decisions. Feral crowds should not ruin games. 

Umpires should have influence the result of a match, but its been happening for years. The AFL admits mistakes but does nothing to rectify them.

[picket fence 18,155]

17 hours ago, picket fence said:

TAKE IT TO THE HIGH COURT

POTENTIALLY COST US A PREMIERSHIP

Gents, this was made Tongue in Cheek?

[In Harmes Way 7,869]

20 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Gents, this was made Tongue in Cheek?

It's the vibe of the thing picket.

[Webber 10,650]

33 minutes ago, binman said:

Demonland's very own lace out (and skipper of an excellent you tube channel and podcast) is referenced in this article. Love the title:

https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl/borders-on-cheating-melbourne-fail-to-win-two-crucial-free-kicks-in-shock-one-point-loss-to-adelaide-ng-b881879550z?dc_data=6594903_samsung-carnival-australia-english&utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=referral&ui=d0d9279a-60d8-4e2f-b351-7f38ba6bb02a-tuct7a5dc37

Pretty compelling......almost like there’s a problem that deserves a solution. 

[Dr.D 1,771]

3 hours ago, Dwight Schrute said:

Feel for the umpire a bit to be honest, it's clear he [censored] himself due to the moment and the crows crowd. hopefully the AFL is providing some support. 

honestly there are definitely umpires who dislike the MFC and tend to award free kicks accordingly, but i didn't see that in this game, to me this was a case of an umpire caught in a big moment and didn't handle it

 

F#$k him. He cost my team 4 points and top spot on the ladder because he didn't have the balls to make the right call. I hope the afl suspends him for a week or 3. 

[Ted Lasso 19,586]

9 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

F#$k him. He cost my team 4 points and top spot on the ladder because he didn't have the balls to make the right call. I hope the afl suspends him for a week or 3. 

It is certainly a problem that needs a solution, i feel for the umpire on a human level, but if the crowd is impacting you so much incorrect decisions are deciding games, maybe it's not the right profession for you? 

I also think the AFL needs to be able to do more. the high likelyhood is we at least level the scores with not enough time for the Crows to score again, so not sure why they can't make the result a draw if they can acknowledge the decision was a mistake 

[jnrmac 20,338]

2 hours ago, Dwight Schrute said:

Honestly mate i just think the umpires need to simplify the rules as much as possible, make it hard for mistakes to happen. 

Like for example, i would support last touch in both 50's and only do throw ins on the wings, that way, in that situation, it'd be insane for the player to even attempt what he did. make the player HAVE to keep it in play, and forward 50 stoppages ususally cause a lot of congestion as well. 

This is not so simple either.

People would argue Spargo touched it and it was a Crow free. What do you do then? Go to the video review?

Not practical at all. The game would go for 7 hours. And a similar issue would arise about who touched it last....

[don cordner 204]

3 hours ago, Dwight Schrute said:

Feel for the umpire a bit to be honest, it's clear he [censored] himself due to the moment and the crows crowd. hopefully the AFL is providing some support. 

honestly there are definitely umpires who dislike the MFC and tend to award free kicks accordingly, but i didn't see that in this game, to me this was a case of an umpire caught in a big moment and didn't handle it

 

yeah right!! lol it was a complete cheat move, if the tables were turned and we were up a point and a Melbourne player knocked it out of bounds like that Adelaide would of 100% been paid the free kick. It's called cheating

[Ted Lasso 19,586]

Just now, jnrmac said:

This is not so simple either.

People would argue Spargo touched it and it was a Crow free. What do you do then? Go to the video review?

Not practical at all. The game would go for 7 hours. And a similar issue would arise about who touched it last....

you back in the umpires decision either way, but the crows bloke isn't going to handball it towards the boundary line if last touch is a rule, they're going to hack kick it back out, keeps the ball moving, and keeps it in play and prevents repeat F50 stoppages. so imo the net good, would outweight the teething issues that'd come with it.

1 minute ago, don cordner said:

yeah right!! lol it was a complete cheat move, if the tables were turned and we were up a point and a Melbourne player knocked it out of bounds like that Adelaide would of 100% been paid the free kick. It's called cheating

You're probably right about the fact it would be a Crows free, but that would IMV be because of the crowd, not due to any "Cheating" i think a lot of people underestimate the stress that would come on a person with 60k angry crows supporters screaming at them.