1 minute ago, Mental Demons said:

While I agree That T Mac will be a FA next year and will probably go somewhere else. There is no cap saving in this but we might be able to get some pick compensation of some sort if we can trade him. I suspect that is is unlikely that we will be able to pay Jackson what he will be offered elsewhere. Have a read of the article that I posted and put yourself in the position of list management. 

 

I have - and I found a lazy $500k for him behind my couch. ?

10 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

He's contracted and going nowhere.

If the Weid can't nail down a spot and wants to leave then so be it. I'm a fan of the Weid and want him to stay but the reality is Dogga has shown more in 15 odd games than the Weid has in 5 seasons. 

He has a different skill set to Weid. I suspect we are more in need of what Weid offers. Jackson has value and we could get good picks/players for him. We have done well at the draft in recent times and this is better value for money.

23 minutes ago, kev martin said:

Who is Liam, and why can't players go home? State borders aren't closed.

(Jurrah?) and why?

Yes, Liam Jurrah and I was joking. Luke Jackson broke his finger for a couple of weeks and now people are going crazy that he will leave the club, or we have to unload Weideman for some reason, contrary to all available evidence and logic. Text-book MFCSS. 

2 hours ago, Mental Demons said:

This move has been long anticipated. Despite all the logic, and being howled down on here before, I think it is very unlikely that Jackson will be in red and Blue next year. Weid has to come in or there is a danger of losing him too. Even Max has said that it is a luxury having Luke. A luxury is not a necessity. Jackson has been good but is superfluous to need.

The upside to this for Jackson and the team is that he is now valuable and the team has somebody to trade something good for. The lure of a move back to WA has always been there for the young player. Not being second to Max is also an attraction. I doubt there is a place for Jackson in our best 22, come finals time. If there is, who would be dropped for him? He is not more productive than our forwards. It is great having depth but it is hard to keep rising stars to be bit players for ever.

Perhaps if this team won a GF and Jackson was a part of that, he might want to stay. Short of that, I think it will be hard to keep him and he might have more value to the Demons as a trade. The only thing that may change this situation is if Tom Macdonald or Weideman leaves the club at years end. We have a short list now with long term injuries and there will be a new draft mid season and at seasons end. We are probably paying some players too much going forward. In this group would be Viney, Tomlinson, Tom Mac, Melksham, Jetta, Hibberd, Brayshaw. It is unlikely we will keep everyone.

With the long term signing of Petracca, these issues will start to be a problem. Value for money vs length of contract will start to be an problem. There is a good analysis of this problem.  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-13/demons-christian-petracca-is-he-worth-seven-year-contract/100133302 

That's just Mental!

22 minutes ago, dino rover said:

We aren't the only team with Premiership potential but we seem to be in the window right now and that will a powerful motivator for players to stay. The signing of Trac and other core elite players makes it a hard team to leave. Going to Gold Coast at least might not be so attractive in the context.

I think the Suns list management has been excellent in the last couple of years. It would not surprise me at all if they are where we are now in a couple of seasons.

20 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

He's contracted and going nowhere.

If the Weid can't nail down a spot and wants to leave then so be it. I'm a fan of the Weid and want him to stay but the reality is Dogga has shown more in 15 odd games than the Weid has in 5 seasons. 

We’re all excited by Jacksons potential, but it’s simply untrue to say he’s already showed more than Weid. Weid has already had 3 goal, 20+ disposal game in a final where he was near BOG. Sure he’s been inconsistent with form and fitness, but he’s also averaged 2+ goals as number 1 tall target, and showed he was capable as a second ruck.

We all get excited when young guns start their careers, but let’s not make stuff up and say they’re already better than more proven players with better output.

That said, we’ve looked better at centre bounces with Dogga in there as ruck. His ground ball follow up gives us more drive than when Gawn is rucking the bounces. We should be aiming to get Dogga back in ASAP once he’s healthy again.

There's been at least 3 proposed replacements for Jackson: Weid, Daw or a mid.  The final suggestion didn't have much traction but it was my preferred because of Jackson's ground ball and tackling influence being harder to replace that his aerial contribution within the remaining 21.  I think just as they went for Petty and Hibberd when May was unavailable meaning Jetta got dropped, and then Petty and Harmes for Tomlinson and Baker.  I think they may go for another balanced pair of changes and I can see the merit in  Weid and Sparrow/Jones/Chandler for Jackson and Melksham.

2 hours ago, Mental Demons said:

This move has been long anticipated. Despite all the logic, and being howled down on here before, I think it is very unlikely that Jackson will be in red and Blue next year. Weid has to come in or there is a danger of losing him too. Even Max has said that it is a luxury having Luke. A luxury is not a necessity. Jackson has been good but is superfluous to need.

The upside to this for Jackson and the team is that he is now valuable and the team has somebody to trade something good for. The lure of a move back to WA has always been there for the young player. Not being second to Max is also an attraction. I doubt there is a place for Jackson in our best 22, come finals time. If there is, who would be dropped for him? He is not more productive than our forwards. It is great having depth but it is hard to keep rising stars to be bit players for ever.

Perhaps if this team won a GF and Jackson was a part of that, he might want to stay. Short of that, I think it will be hard to keep him and he might have more value to the Demons as a trade. The only thing that may change this situation is if Tom Macdonald or Weideman leaves the club at years end. We have a short list now with long term injuries and there will be a new draft mid season and at seasons end. We are probably paying some players too much going forward. In this group would be Viney, Tomlinson, Tom Mac, Melksham, Jetta, Hibberd, Brayshaw. It is unlikely we will keep everyone.

With the long term signing of Petracca, these issues will start to be a problem. Value for money vs length of contract will start to be an problem. There is a good analysis of this problem.  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-13/demons-christian-petracca-is-he-worth-seven-year-contract/100133302 

I have a gut feel Jackson won't be with us long term but certainly will be in the short-medium term.

36 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Yes, Liam Jurrah and I was joking. Luke Jackson broke his finger for a couple of weeks and now people are going crazy that he will leave the club, or we have to unload Weideman for some reason, contrary to all available evidence and logic. Text-book MFCSS. 

There is a chance both Jackson, Pickett and Rivers could return to their home state if not managed well. This concern was well before his finger injury. I saw in a video from the club, loyalty written on Picketts arm, hope that is the same their thoughts for all of them, on the MFC. Yet, big bucks could be knocking on the door.

Edited May 13, 20213 yr by kev martin

16 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

He has a different skill set to Weid. I suspect we are more in need of what Weid offers. Jackson has value and we could get good picks/players for him. We have done well at the draft in recent times and this is better value for money.

Jackson is the most exciting prospect at MFC since well ... Oliver.  He's an absolutely unique gun that we need to do everything we can to retain.  He's 12 year dynasty material.  It's too easy to forget he's only 19yo.

Edited May 13, 20213 yr by Pollyanna

LJ is a salary cap manager's nightmare.

He projects the three worries:

• Go home factor
• A club prepared to pay overs to get him (Eagles)
• Hitting very good form about one year in advance of anticipation

Hopefully the desire to play in a successful team is a counterbalance.

His contract will also come up for renewal at a time (next year) when there is little certainty in future salary cap levels.

Frankly a one year extension to end 2023 could be considered a win

PS IMO Weid has nothing to do with Jackson... two very different players.

One of Weid or TMac will go at season's end simply for salary cap reasons.

Edited May 13, 20213 yr by Diamond_Jim

3 minutes ago, kev martin said:

There is a chance both Jackson and Pickett could return to their home state if not managed well. This concern was well before his finger injury. I saw in a video from the club, loyalty written on Picketts arm, hope that is both their thoughts on the MFC. Yet, big bucks could be knocking on the door for both of them.

I left my home-town at the earliest possible opportunity, at about 17 (admittedly, it was Adelaide) and never went back. Is there any other elite sport in the world where fans fret over the origin of their players and some supposed go-home factor? Does it even really exist in the AFL, outside of an excuse to chase dollars? Jackson was on an elite basketball path - that means not even being in Australia. And it's not even clear where Kozzie's home is. They both seem entirely committed to the club for now and into the future, and I trust the club and our 'local' players to make them feel entirely at home chasing a flag together.  

1 minute ago, Skuit said:

I left my home-town at the earliest possible opportunity, at about 17 (admittedly, it was Adelaide) and never went back. Is there any other elite sport in the world where fans fret over the origin of their players and some supposed go-home factor? Does it even really exist in the AFL, outside of an excuse to chase dollars? Jackson was on an elite basketball path - that means not even being in Australia. And it's not even clear where Kozzie's home is. They both seem entirely committed to the club for now and into the future, and I trust the club and our 'local' players to make them feel entirely at home chasing a flag together.  

Really good question. Just keeping it close to home, does it happen in NRL, for example?   

3 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Really good question. Just keeping it close to home, does it happen in NRL, for example?   

I wonder what Cam Smith, Cooper Cronk and Billy Slater would have to say about this matter.

Or Andrew Gaff

Or Matthew Pavlich

Or Patrick Dangerfield

Or Adam Goodes

Or Buddy Franklin

Or Lachie Neale

Point is that there is plenty of evidence that the go home factor is irrelevant, if the culture is what you desire and you have great relationships.

Edited May 13, 20213 yr by Engorged Onion

3 hours ago, Mental Demons said:

With the long term signing of Petracca, these issues will start to be a problem. Value for money vs length of contract will start to be an problem. There is a good analysis of this problem.  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-13/demons-christian-petracca-is-he-worth-seven-year-contract/100133302 

I had a different take on that article.  I took it as a huge endorsement of giving Petracca a long-term contract (without knowing what monies he is on, nor do I particularly care).  In terms of 'value' the graphs showed he is in the elite category so for mine whatever money he is on is good value.

I'm not worried about Petracca's contract starting problems.  Our President last week outlined the governance process the Club and the Board go through for contracts over a certain length.  She didn't say what it was but I would guess > 3 years.

I trust that our players we want to keep will be well rewarded.  Will they get as much as other clubs will offer, probably not.  But if we are in premiership contention for the next 3-5 years and a player chooses to leave for more $, then such is life.

Jackson has one of his best WA mates at the club:  Rivers.  Lots of reasons for Jackson to stay.  If he gets homesick well that is a different matter.

Edited May 13, 20213 yr by Lucifer's Hero

3 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Really good question. Just keeping it close to home, does it happen in NRL, for example?   

I don't know to be honest. Maybe elite sport in Australia is different to global sports? We've been busy trying to build a mature team - I would contend that maturity includes not wanting to go 'home' and play around with high-school friends. Anyone who does desire such - see Hogan perhaps - isn't the right fit to begin with. Let them walk. 

24 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

We all get excited when young guns start their careers, but let’s not make stuff up and say they’re already better than more proven players with better output.

What do you mean make it up? Blind Freddy could tell you Dogga is a generational talent with a unique skill set. Do you think I’m making it up if I say Kozzie has shown more than the Weid as well.

The Weid has been plenty inconsistent. At best he is a No.2 KPF. Don’t get me wrong, I like the Weid and think we’re better if we can integrate him into the team but if he’s so good why is Dogga and TMac keeping him out of the team.

I have doubts about the Weid. I have no doubts about Dogga.

1 hour ago, Mental Demons said:

I have mentioned a few.  I suspect that the FD have been wanting to get Weid in for a while. This injury allows that to happen. The reality is Jackson will be getting offers, that is the main one. We could not move a couple of players last year. You can only trade something that someone is willing to pay for. There are not many on our list that fall into that category. 

You don’t think LJ is in our best 22..??

Out of interest, does anybody have any information or intel about Dogga wanting to go home. Is there substance to it or just our MFCSS fears getting the better of us?

I think the go home factor is overblown. Not many players actually move back to WA. Hogan did but it was on our terms. Kelly wanted to go back but his home sickness wasn't enough to convince him to join Freo. He waited until the Eagles made their move.

29 minutes ago, Skuit said:

I don't know to be honest. Maybe elite sport in Australia is different to global sports? We've been busy trying to build a mature team - I would contend that maturity includes not wanting to go 'home' and play around with high-school friends. Anyone who does desire such - see Hogan perhaps - isn't the right fit to begin with. Let them walk. 

Some movement from and to clubs is about the culture, player management and success. 

Hoping we are ticking most of the boxes in those areas and are becoming a destination club.

If I look at GWS and the Suns, so many of their players have moved

Home sickness may not be a major problem for the mature, but those clubs from the players origin state feel they have more capacity to lure the player back. There is a good chance the interstate stars will be hunted.

Edited May 13, 20213 yr by kev martin

2 hours ago, Mental Demons said:

With the long term signing of Petracca, these issues will start to be a problem. Value for money vs length of contract will start to be an problem. There is a good analysis of this problem.  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-13/demons-christian-petracca-is-he-worth-seven-year-contract/100133302 

Thanks for sharing the link. A good read. I'm concerned you have comprehension problems though if your take-away was that Petracca's signing would lead to long-term issues. Exact opposite to the jist of the article you're providing as evidence. 

8 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

Out of interest, does anybody have any information or intel about Dogga wanting to go home. Is there substance to it or just our MFCSS fears getting the better of us?

I think the go home factor is overblown. Not many players actually move back to WA. Hogan did but it was on our terms. Kelly wanted to go back but his home sickness wasn't enough to convince him to join Freo. He waited until the Eagles made their move.

it's only one factor but it's real for WA. The sun and surf are very real.

As a hypothetical... end 2022 Eagles offer 5 years at $750k plus bonuses plus a job plus endorsement opportunitities. (All up a base of $1M)

Hard to match

Play in front of a capacity crowd every second week. Regular finals appearances etc etc

Let's hope Eagles fall into a hole in the next eighteen months... after all Kennedy, Natanui and Darling are getting on.

In the meantime let's enjoy a very good talent and you can rest assured we'll get one or two first round picks for him.

 

Reality is - despite being the crappest team in history for a good part - we haven't had an unwanted go home beside maybe Scott Thompson in the past fifteen years. In addition, since Goodwin has been at the club, we haven't lost a single player we really wanted to keep and have brought in almost all of those we've publicly targeted. Club is well run and we have a good culture. Just signed up Trac to seven years, along with deals for Max, Viney, Oliver and Salem. No one of interest will be leaving of their own accord.  

2 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Reality is - despite being the crappest team in history for a good part - we haven't had an unwanted go home beside maybe Scott Thompson in the past fifteen years. In addition, since Goodwin has been at the club, we haven't lost a single player we really wanted to keep and have brought in almost all of those we've publicly targeted. Club is well run and we have a good culture. Just signed up Trac to seven years, along with deals for Max, Viney, Oliver and Salem. No one of interest will be leaving of their own accord.  

Scott Thompson going home was more than 15 years ago, Daniher was coach.

There are only two clubs in WA. They can’t take back every talent who has moved East and will have to pay big if they do. The reality is most will stay East. We may lose a required homesick player but so could 16 other clubs. There are limited opportunities.

Edited May 13, 20213 yr by John Crow Batty