I'm curious, if Colonwood get salary cap relief for delisting a player who they recruited entirely knowing the risk and situation, the possibly consequences could be...

Can't finish the sentence.  Too long; didn't write!

The sense of entitlement is mind-boggling.

I guess there's no harm in asking.

I imagine, though, that Collingwood knew full well that a sympathetic ruling would have been most unlikely. If they didn't, they're more of a list management basketcase than I thought.

57 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I guess there's no harm in asking.

I imagine, though, that Collingwood knew full well that a sympathetic ruling would have been most unlikely. If they didn't, they're more of a list management basketcase than I thought.

"How dare the AFL deny us!!" Sounds like the Essendon defence, got to get the membership back on side somehow.

On 11/13/2020 at 3:19 PM, old dee said:

D17 I don't think it has anything do with all that. IMO they needed to shed $2+ million and looked at where best that could be achieved. Treloar was the big one and when his wife moved north that thought great he will follow her, here is our big chance and it blew up in their faces when he said no quite happy here. The others were just easy pickings. It was only after the event that they started making up excuses.

Possibly. My point is teh club squibbed the resoning by rolling out a justifcation to them personally.

Just say  "... Look wev'e overpaid you both and its stuffed up our salary cap modelling ..."  Sorry.

19 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

If Beams wanted to help the club he would sacrifice some or all of the next two years leftin his contract.  Tom Boyd (who also retired for mental health reasons) had the good grace to forfeit all monies owing.

Let's hope Beams has the good grace to demand full payment and completion of his contract...

27 minutes ago, Demon17 said:

Possibly. My point is teh club squibbed the resoning by rolling out a justifcation to them personally.

Just say  "... Look wev'e overpaid you both and its stuffed up our salary cap modelling ..."  Sorry.

But that would have been  admitting fault!

19 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

If Beams wanted to help the club he would sacrifice some or all of the next two years leftin his contract.  Tom Boyd (who also retired for mental health reasons) had the good grace to forfeit all monies owing.

only problem there luci is that the filth poached beams knowing he had mental health problems.

then gave him a 5 year contract on good coin with no get-out clauses even though he had history

filth made their bed, they need to lie (npi) in it

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

only problem there luci is that the filth poached beams knowing he had mental health problems.

then gave him a 5 year contract on good coin with no get-out clauses even though he had history

filth made their bed, they need to lie (npi) in it

Sure Pies knew he had mental health (and other) issues but they didn't expect him to play only 9 games in 4 years and collect a cool $2.0.  My comment was about Beam's character - took Brisbane for a ride and now the Pies. 

I'm very happy to see them wallow in their self made mess, daisy.  May it long continue.

12 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Sure Pies knew he had mental health (and other) issues but they didn't expect him to play only 9 games in 4 years and collect a cool $2.0.  My comment was about Beam's character - took Brisbane for a ride and now the Pies. 

I'm very happy to see them wallow in their self made mess, daisy.  May it long continue.

well i don't personally know too much about his character, but i'm sure the filth would know a lot more about his character than you or i.

so, given this they were derelict in not placing some kpi or get-out clauses in his contract, despite eddie vouching for him. worse they started playing with other players contracts (back-loading, maybe even cuts) to squeeze him in

i suppose if his character is quite bad then he won't be amenable to negotiating much

2 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

well i don't personally know too much about his character, but i'm sure the filth would know a lot more about his character than you or i.

so, given this they were derelict in not placing some kpi or get-out clauses in his contract, despite eddie vouching for him. worse they started playing with other players contracts (back-loading, maybe even cuts) to squeeze him in

i suppose if his character is quite bad then he won't be amenable to negotiating much

That was my point.

I have a theory that the AFL knew C'wood had a severe cap issue and told them, fix it today unless you want a multi million $$$ fine and X years of no draft picks. Eddie had thought they could bluster their way through it and they panicked.

3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Sure Pies knew he had mental health (and other) issues but they didn't expect him to play only 9 games in 4 years and collect a cool $2.0.  My comment was about Beam's character - took Brisbane for a ride and now the Pies. 

I'm very happy to see them wallow in their self made mess, daisy.  May it long continue.

Uhm didn’t he move back to Brissy to be around his dying father who then passed away? After which he started his spiral into depression, then thought it might help to get back to Pies/Melb? 
Bit of a long bow on the “character” comment, jesus. 

I'll be filthy if they get special dispensation to pay Beams outside of the salary cap given that we have (and I believe will continue to pay next year) KK inside the cap. Much like how they've dealt with Treloar they thought at the time "oh we're being super smart and super coy with getting these guys to the club", they've made their bed now they should lie in it. Pure arrogance from them, and yes if the AFL allow it then we should be allowed to pay KK outside the cap next season.

10 hours ago, Cards13 said:

Uhm didn’t he move back to Brissy to be around his dying father who then passed away? After which he started his spiral into depression, then thought it might help to get back to Pies/Melb? 
Bit of a long bow on the “character” comment, jesus. 

If you listen to the Sacked podcast with Beams what he says in that aligns with the above. He also says it was his choice to retire, and he is retired. He also says Collingwood have been very supportive.

HOWEVER, something isn’t adding up.

If he is in good faith retired, why is he expecting more money when he has chosen to not fulfil his end of the bargain?

I can think of a couple of reasons.

Collingwood want to spread his contract out over several years as irrespective of real dollars out the door the AFL is making sure the contract hits the cap, and a Beams retirement bring forward the remaining contract amounts into the current year.

Beams is trying to screw Collingwood for every cent he can, and is using an argument that his retirement is illness related and either Collingwood or the AFL have fault in his illness (i.e. workplace injury).

Collingwood’s 2021 calendar was sent off to the printers before the trade period and now features a Western Bulldog on the front cover. He’s also Mr. January. Then there’s a North Melbourne player featured for the month of October.

There were no takers for Mason Cox so he’s still good for the last month of 2021 but will he still be a Magpie by then?

1 hour ago, Lampers said:

If you listen to the Sacked podcast with Beams what he says in that aligns with the above. He also says it was his choice to retire, and he is retired. He also says Collingwood have been very supportive.

HOWEVER, something isn’t adding up.

If he is in good faith retired, why is he expecting more money when he has chosen to not fulfil his end of the bargain?

I can think of a couple of reasons.

Collingwood want to spread his contract out over several years as irrespective of real dollars out the door the AFL is making sure the contract hits the cap, and a Beams retirement bring forward the remaining contract amounts into the current year.

Beams is trying to screw Collingwood for every cent he can, and is using an argument that his retirement is illness related and either Collingwood or the AFL have fault in his illness (i.e. workplace injury).

I don’t think we can judge his motivations like trying to screw Collingwood, and I think that is a pretty tough stance to take. Anyway all I hope is Collingwood are rubbish for years to come! ?

12 hours ago, Cards13 said:

Uhm didn’t he move back to Brissy to be around his dying father who then passed away? After which he started his spiral into depression, then thought it might help to get back to Pies/Melb? 
Bit of a long bow on the “character” comment, jesus. 

I'm well aware of why he went to Brisbane.  It is his leaving Brisbane that I was referring to.

 

43 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

I don’t think we can judge his motivations like trying to screw Collingwood, and I think that is a pretty tough stance to take. Anyway all I hope is Collingwood are rubbish for years to come! ?

Have you listened to the Sacked podcast. 
 

Very hard to reconcile what he says against a what is happening and come up with an innocent explanation.

2 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Collingwood’s 2021 calendar was sent off to the printers before the trade period and now features a Western Bulldog on the front cover. He’s also Mr. January. Then there’s a North Melbourne player featured for the month of October.

There were no takers for Mason Cox so he’s still good for the last month of 2021 but will he still be a Magpie by then?

It's easy to laugh, but it's happened to us before and I suspect will happen again. But probably not in the 2021 calendar. It's hard to imagine that any of Mitch Hannan, Brayden Preuss, Oscar McDonald or the Wagner boys were going to be in our 2021 calendar anyway.

1 hour ago, Lampers said:

Have you listened to the Sacked podcast. 
 

Very hard to reconcile what he says against a what is happening and come up with an innocent explanation.

No I haven't Lampers, I might do so on the weekend. ?

19 hours ago, Pates said:

I'll be filthy if they get special dispensation to pay Beams outside of the salary cap given that we have (and I believe will continue to pay next year) KK inside the cap. Much like how they've dealt with Treloar they thought at the time "oh we're being super smart and super coy with getting these guys to the club", they've made their bed now they should lie in it. Pure arrogance from them, and yes if the AFL allow it then we should be allowed to pay KK outside the cap next season.

We also should get some credit for this year. I am sick of Collingwood’s sense of entitlement (e.g. no need for an away jumper of a different design or colour like the other 17 teams). It is about time they succumbed to the same rulebook.

Former Magpies director David Galbally, AM QC calls for a major “clean out” at the top citing the salary cap blow out drama, the recruitment of Dayne Beams, the Heritier Lumumba racism inquiry and a string of player misconduct issues and also points to a longstanding culture and governance problem.

Top lawyer David Galbally calls for Eddie McGuire to end two-decade reign as Collingwood president

Just as well the AFL turned down the request to pay Beam's early retirement from the AFL's Medical Fund (or whatever they call it) thus protecting Coll TPP.  Near certainty Geelong would have made the same request for Steven's early retirement.

Edited November 19, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero