Must say, if Oliver leaves, or wants to leave, it stinks and confirms that he doesn't see a good direction for the club imo. This is also on Goodwin. One of the more skilled players we've seen in a long time, having said that, I feel he has stagnated a bit last couple of years also.

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

If Oliver is traded this year I’ll donate an eyeball to science. 

And I would seriously consider matching it with a [censored] placed atop my membership card.

(read valuable family jewel)

Edited October 6, 20204 yr by Bitter but optimistic

Oliver is the one we need to keep more than anyone else...try to get him on a 5+ year contract and build around him. He is our best player.

I hope/imagine he isn't wanting out because of a B&F finish. Also doesn't grab me as the kind of competitor who would give up and leave a club because of lack of success. Seems more likely to be someone who would want to drive the club forward.

I don't know how others feel, but my perception of players who achieve ultimate team success with their original team is that they are very often held in higher regard than those who have swapped teams. It just seems to be a greater achievement. That goes for many different sports, not just footy.

If there is any truth to this, let’s hope it is our ‘Dusty tours GWS’ moment. 
 

Petracca up here in Cairns at the moment, i'll ask him

18 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Hard to think that 5th in the BnF on its own, would prompt him to look elsewhere  The only impact of 5th is he gets a lower $ bonus than finishing higher, which could be enough to concern him.

I would guess there are at least half a dozen players earning more than he does so that a big package elsewhere could be attractive.

There could be any number of other issues:  pace of his development, the blowtorch from the media and no-one at the club stood up for him, other players get lots more than him but contributing less, other players not working as hard as he does on and off the field, relationships with teammate(s) etc.

@Demons11and @Demon3usually have good mail and don't post on a whim.  So if they are saying Oliver is restless I believe them.  I also believe their view that next year is critical to keeping him.

Spot on.

Again, I too don't believe the placing of the best and fairest is the sole reasoning at all. I think at his age and what he's already achieved, he would be satisfied enough. He'll win a few more BnF's mind you.

The middle part as you note is very interesting. Could be all of those things that we wouldn't know.

I think we all can agree that 2021 looms as a very critical year for the footy club.

58 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

There could be any number of other issues:  pace of his development, the blowtorch from the media and no-one at the club stood up for him, other players get lots more than him but contributing less, other players not working as hard as he does on and off the field, relationships with teammate(s) etc.

Wasn't it stated recently that Oliver likes stability and continuity?

Another full overhaul of the football department and assistant coaches is anything but that.

Realise we are all just adding fuel to the fire, but the people that emphatically declare he won't leave are just as likely wrong as those suggesting he may be sounding other teams out.

Edited October 6, 20204 yr by BW511

11 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I think we all can agree that 2021 looms as a very critical year for the footy club.

why would it be any better? Serious question

2020 we had no injuries and we had several wins under 10 points against lesser clubs. Not once did we beat a club that was better than us at the time except St Kilda and that was by a point.

Membership drops by the biggest margin of any club. Chairman tells the players they are soft and the list goes on. We have a non performing forward who is in our top five paid players (T Mac), we have sold the farm for an ok at best backman (Lever) and we've thrown money at a journeyman such as Tomlinson.

Sure we might luck a turn around but objectively the prognosis is not great with the present coach and gameplan.

All stars need to feel wanted and have egos that need constant reminding of their value so he would have been a little shocked by the B&F downgrade especially given he has been top two for 3 years now.

I also suspect that after not railing him in for three years of panic "hot potato" gives, albeit laced with unbelievably courageous clearance work, that Goody and Ben Matthews sat him down and actually told him he had to lift after the Richmond game and the Port game. Going from a young player who could do no wrong to a scolded naughty boy can breed resentment, until of course a player rises to the challenge of it, which I think he has started to a degree.  

When you are just 23, you are at a stage of life where your character is not fully formed and initially you get excited by what you can get elsewhere. Carlton seems to have an unlimited salary cap at the moment and as others suggest, may well have offered him $1.5million a year and what youngster on around $500K until his new contract next year, would not get excited by that. He would also have heard that Trac got a major upgrade earlier this year and know what others are getting including T.Mac and Lever and jealousy is a natural thing, but one that needs tempering with the wisdom and realism that age provides. The hub life environment would also have meant that he would have had heaps of time and chances to chat with players from other clubs and he probably thought, s..t, I'm highly regarded but on virtually nothing (a relative term I know given $500K is hardly nothing).

What amazes me is that Carlton is the club that has been mentioned. They already have forked out big sums on Martin and now Williams, not to mention Cripps and Curnow and McGovern. I would have thought that Essendon would have been in to him big time given their need for a big-bodied clearance machine and also the fact that they are about to have plenty of cash freed up by Daniher's departure.  

The good news is that as you mature, you get over that impressionable stage. Hopefully if we hold tight, Olly will realise that loyalty and friendships and working to a long-term goal is a reward in itself and ultimately that money can't buy love, which is what happened with Tom Scully, who in case anyone has forgotten, was just about every Dee fan's favourite until a trip to China and a job offer to his dad turned him into a footy mercenary and a nowhere man.

30 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

why would it be any better? Serious question

2020 we had no injuries and we had several wins under 10 points against lesser clubs. Not once did we beat a club that was better than us at the time except St Kilda and that was by a point.

Membership drops by the biggest margin of any club. Chairman tells the players they are soft and the list goes on. We have a non performing forward who is in our top five paid players (T Mac), we have sold the farm for an ok at best backman (Lever) and we've thrown money at a journeyman such as Tomlinson.

Sure we might luck a turn around but objectively the prognosis is not great with the present coach and gameplan.

Don't worry I agree with your point.

He doesn’t look too angry here...

I do feel that the club has drank its own bathwater and as I said at the time, paying Lever $750k would have had players scratching their heads, I didn't think he was worth that (and picks) at the time and I certainly don't now, he has youth on his side though. Combined with May $700k who apart from the last half of this year has been a failure and Tomlinson $500k? It's decisions like this that can unsettle any workplace. I'm unsure whether the rumour is true or not, but they generally don't just spark up without some kind of smoke. As I've said for two years, I don't see what direction the club is going under Goodwin, if he weren't all chummy with the players I'd doubt he would continue, there is currently no direction and we've lost some of the best teachers as assistant coaches in the last few years. I do hope that whatever review they are undertaking, if at all, covers potentially our best players wanting to leave and why.

21 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

He doesn’t look too angry here...

That was taken last year.

22 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

That was taken last year.

Was on his feed this morning 

Harmes Birthday 

Clarry isn’t going to be posting HB messages if he is [censored] off with his Team Mates and Club

Edited October 6, 20204 yr by Sir Why You Little

57 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

why would it be any better? Serious question

According to my inner optimist:

Outside of our best 6-8 players, our entire list under-performed this year. Senior players in Melksham, Harmes, Lever, Brayshaw, Hannan, Tomlinson all had down years - they are all in their prime and are capable of playing far better footy than they produced this year.

Another pre-season into developing players Weideman, Jackson, Rivers, Kosi, Sparrow, Spargo (yes I rate him), Petty et al. Barring injury, this group will be better in 2021.

Worth remembering that Richmond finished 13th in 2016, lost one of their best players in Deledio, recruited a couple of hacks in Nankervis and Caddy, and paid pick 6 for Prestia, which they were widely ridiculed for.

Things can turn around quickly.

I'd be surprised if we don't win the flag next year really.

6 minutes ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

According to my inner optimist:

Outside of our best 6-8 players, our entire list under-performed this year. Senior players in Melksham, Harmes, Lever, Brayshaw, Hannan, Tomlinson all had down years - they are all in their prime and are capable of playing far better footy than they produced this year.

Another pre-season into developing players Weideman, Jackson, Rivers, Kosi, Sparrow, Spargo (yes I rate him), Petty et al. Barring injury, this group will be better in 2021.

Worth remembering that Richmond finished 13th in 2016, lost one of their best players in Deledio, recruited a couple of hacks in Nankervis and Caddy, and paid pick 6 for Prestia, which they were widely ridiculed for.

Things can turn around quickly.

I'd be surprised if we don't win the flag next year really.

Richmond also had Rance, Cotchin, Riewoldt and Dusty and a coach willing to change and listen to other people's ideas.

14 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

There's just no way he goes to the Blues. If he's still unsigned near the end of 2021 I'll be worried of course.

Tom Morris was on a podcast a few days ago though saying that Oliver was angry about finishing 5th in the Bluey. His opinion was that's just how he is. He's a competitor, maybe a bit immature and has the ego that goes with those things. He was saying he didn't think any of it was a reflection on the club or Goodwin.

Clayton Oliver had a far far better year than Jack Viney. How Viney finished in front of Oliver is fantasyland stuff.

Passing comment on Footy Classified about a player 'looking unhappy' at the BnF leads to 14 pages in a week.

 

 

4 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Clayton Oliver had a far far better year than Jack Viney. How Viney finished in front of Oliver is fantasyland stuff.

4 coaches vote each week.  Maybe one coach consistently gave Viney more votes than other coaches.

Just now, Lucifer's Hero said:

4 coaches vote each week.  Maybe one coach consistently gave Viney more votes than other coaches.

Well there you have it, clearly our coaches are clueless! How clueless might be played out in this review which might see several on the outer!!

13 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Was on his feed this morning 

Harmes Birthday 

I meant the photo in general. Harmes is in QLD still with a group of mates. That photo was taken in Echuca last year.

On the whole "Oliver's upset he finished 5th in the B&F" thing, I think that could well be another example of a truthful comment spiralling out of control.

I suspect, if there's any truth to it at all, it might be that Oliver was disappointed in his own performance this year, because he sets a high bar for himself. That could easily then blow up through miscommunication into him being disappointed with the club, as if he thinks he has an entitlement to a higher placed finish.

2 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I just think think he like some players would be getting restless because of the lack of success. Oliver's already had 5 years in the system and he's played finals once. It would absolutely play on their minds knowing they have a bloke on the list named Nathan Jones who's barely had any success. Do they want to go down that same path?

Putting my football hat on, as a player, would absolutely hand back all my individual achievements if it meant I was constantly playing finals each year and knowing that we were so close on the brink of success. 

Watching the likes of Brisbane, St Kilda go past us in the last 2 years would leave a pretty salty taste in their mouths.

Having dealt with Oliver from our bushies days, he's a competitive beast who just wants to win every single game and taste success. He's never once come across someone who's in for the individual stuff. 

 

I reckon that's carp, dazzle.

Wouldn't the obvious counter argument simply be to reflect on 2018: did Brisbane and St Kilda find all their players wanted out of their respective clubs to join us, given we'd just finished 4th and had "gone past them"? They didn't, they turned their own clubs around.

6 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Well there you have it, clearly our coaches are clueless! How clueless might be played out in this review which might see several on the outer!!

I was being a little facetious.  To be fair to the coaches the votes were very close from 3rd to 5th.

3rd:  Viney, 311

4th:  Langdon, 296

5th:  Oliver, 291

I really think 5th being an issue for Oliver is a furphy

Edited October 6, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

why would it be any better? Serious question

2020 we had no injuries and we had several wins under 10 points against lesser clubs. Not once did we beat a club that was better than us at the time except St Kilda and that was by a point.

Membership drops by the biggest margin of any club. Chairman tells the players they are soft and the list goes on. We have a non performing forward who is in our top five paid players (T Mac), we have sold the farm for an ok at best backman (Lever) and we've thrown money at a journeyman such as Tomlinson.

Sure we might luck a turn around but objectively the prognosis is not great with the present coach and gameplan.

"Several wins" = 2 (Carlton and, if you want to argue it, GWS).

By comparison, every single finals club had at least one win by less than 10 points against a non-finalist. Some of those clubs registered that win against Sydney, North or Gold Coast - all inferior clubs to Carlton.

As to clubs "better than us at the time", define that criterion for me? Were we "better than" Carlton in Round 2, after our loss to West Coast and their loss to Richmond? Were we "better than" Gold Coast in Round 6 when we were 1-3 and they were 3-2? Or Collingwood, when they had won their two prior games before playing us, and won their two subsequent games? GWS were above us on the ladder when we beat them, too. And you can discredit the win over St Kilda by virtue of it being small (by the way, it was 3 points, not 1), but then you'd have to discredit the Dogs' season-defining win over the Eagles by 2 points, which forms the basis for many people to argue the Dogs deserved their finals spot over us.

None of that is to say all is good and well at Melbourne, but I just cannot stand revisionism. Why make up these two gripes to attack our season when neither is really all that accurate?