POSTGAME: Rd 13 vs Western Bulldogs

[Deemania since 56 6,630]

18 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

His problem is he always takes his marks on the flanks and pockets.

Great that he gets a number of shots but hard to convert angles.

That Fritta uses effective leads and non-giant opposition players' backs towards the flanks is regularly seen; it is a very good sign compared to the static forwards that have been around for some time at the MFC. Logic therefore dictates that he practices and develops techniques for effective goal-scoring kicks from those pockets or further out at the flanks, as most other successful forwards at other clubs do - and Fritta should have a little chat with Bennell and Hannan - whilst practising, to learn these skills. 'A' leads to 'B', leads to 'C' - goals for the team. We have the know-how, we have the personnel, we have the resources and we have the conceptual success foremost in our minds. We just do not develop such talents terribly well in our vital forward half. 

More goals is worth the effort, wouldn't you say?

 

[Deesprate 1,324]

10 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

As @A F said, I'm certainly not putting the performance down to these things, not at all.

But one thing that was problematic for us yesterday was the way the Dogs spread the field and used the wings. We know that teams like West Coast and Geelong play their respective home grounds better by using width/length/etc., and we know we have struggled for a time at the MCG for a similar reason. I don't know Metricon's dimensions so it might not be a factor for us but I wonder whether the Dogs (in a credit to Beveridge) knew the ground's dimensions and tried to exploit them by stretching our zone out and switching across the ground. 

Maybe they would have done the same at any other ground we played at, so it may well not have been a factor at all, but it's just something I noted. With the Dogs having played 5 games there before yesterday to our 1, it could have been a (sort of) home ground advantage to them.

You don’t need to know ground dimensions to do basic thing like man up. This game was lost in the third quarter when Goodwin (who has close to the worst winning % in the league) showed no game sense and failed to lock down the Dogs kicking with the wind. This was blindingly obvious and if we had stemmed them to say four goals we may have been a chance. This added to poor defensive kicking (exhibit A Hibberd) leading to the pocket (exhibit b Fritsch) lairising (exhibit c Petracca handballing over his head) and zero skills (exhibit D Viney) led to defeat. The only positive for mine was May leading the defence as zero midfield pressure should have seen this result blow out. Unless there are drastic step taken at year end we are on the highway to hell something we have all been used to for 50 years.

[Deemania since 56 6,630]

15 hours ago, Vagg said:

Really?  Your memory probably better than mine, but I seem to remember he used to nail pretty much every shot he had on goal in his first year.  No?

Early on in that first year, he nailed quite a few to suggest his technique was developing and that it would be a bonus in matches/years to come.

Players of all abilities do get the Yips - but it seems that Fritta has hung around these Yips for too long.

We all know that 2 - 3 lengthy practices of goal-shooting at every weekly training session, from all angles and mixed distances, is critical to reliable (at least far more reliable) scoring success for specialist forwards.

If the Under 17s forwards do it and put it to good effect across the same distances and angles, then Fritta can do it, too. It has rapid benefits and at this point, Fritta needs to take that step. That he acquires the ball and takes some great marks is commendable. His conversions need to be 'reliable'.

[Hogan2014 390]

I look @ Geelong & see they haven’t bottomed out  & made finals every year since 2007 bar maybe once, consistently always win many games during the season, sure they have failed not winning many finals since 2011 flag & their list has changed yet their strong culture & leadership is ingrained... ours is far from it!!!

[John Demonic 5,782]

4 hours ago, jnrmac said:

This riles me unbelievably 

How do the umpires not know this? It's like a50m penalty to them

If you don't pay it down the field, then every one will just push each kicker in the back every kick and reset their defence. 

[Adam The God 30,213]

48 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Last word for me on Tomlinson

He was not the problem yesterday but the position we recruited him for was and still is. So instead of filling a gap in our wing position  in our 2019 recruiting we have to go out and do it again this year.  

How was the wing position a problem for us yesterday? 

[Deemania since 56 6,630]

15 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

Tommy has to be one. Who could we possibly offload him to with the form he is in?

Ta-tah, Tom (and Oscar). 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

12 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

I look @ Geelong & see they haven’t bottomed out  & made finals every year since 2007 bar maybe once, consistently always win many games during the season, sure they have failed not winning many finals since 2011 flag & their list has changed yet their strong culture & leadership is ingrained... ours is far from it!!!

Geelong don't strike me as a fair comparison.  They get to play down on their own home deck for at least 10-12 games a season and they know it like the back of their hand.  Not many have won down there in the last 10-15 years.

I'm not trying to devalue their culture, recruitment etc, but I don't think they are the right comparison when talking consistency etc. compared to ours.

[Adam The God 30,213]

49 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

That Fritta uses effective leads and non-giant opposition players' backs towards the flanks is regularly seen; it is a very good sign compared to the static forwards that have been around for some time at the MFC. Logic therefore dictates that he practices and develops techniques for effective goal-scoring kicks from those pockets or further out at the flanks, as most other successful forwards at other clubs do - and Fritta should have a little chat with Bennell and Hannan - whilst practising, to learn these skills. 'A' leads to 'B', leads to 'C' - goals for the team. We have the know-how, we have the personnel, we have the resources and we have the conceptual success foremost in our minds. We just do not develop such talents terribly well in our vital forward half. 

More goals is worth the effort, wouldn't you say?

 

I do wonder if Fritsch getting the ball in the pockets was dummy leads, trying to create space for other forwards in the central corridor. We like most of our shots to go in that 20 to 30m range directly in front of goal. By leading to the pocket, Fritsch is creating space for others, but if our mids are stupid enough to kick it to the tougher option and Fritsch doesn't lead early enough or hard enough, he ends up being the problem too.

[Adam The God 30,213]

23 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

I look @ Geelong & see they haven’t bottomed out  & made finals every year since 2007 bar maybe once, consistently always win many games during the season, sure they have failed not winning many finals since 2011 flag & their list has changed yet their strong culture & leadership is ingrained... ours is far from it!!!

And what happens when Dangerfield, Selwood, Ablett and Hawkins all retire in the next 2-3 years? They'd want to win one before then, but that'd mean having to win a final, where they go to water.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by leave it to deever

[titan_uranus 24,990]

58 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Hopefully the opposite occurs next week.

Saints have never played in Alice Springs while we’ve been playing there since 2014, and performed well there on the last 3 occasions .

Hope so!

53 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Last word for me on Tomlinson

He was not the problem yesterday but the position we recruited him for was and still is. So instead of filling a gap in our wing position  in our 2019 recruiting we have to go out and do it again this year.  

I'm not convinced that Tomlinson has failed on the wing, but even if he has, if he ultimately finds a spot in our best 22 then it's a successful acquisition.

[Hogan2014 390]

20 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Geelong don't strike me as a fair comparison.  They get to play down on their own home deck for at least 10-12 games a season and they know it like the back of their hand.  Not many have won down there in the last 10-15 years.

I'm not trying to devalue their culture, recruitment etc, but I don't think they are the right comparison when talking consistency etc. compared to ours.

How many games have they played at home this year? Agree ground is hard to play ...we clearly have a culture/ leadership issue

[Sir Why You Little 37,016]

43 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

How many games have they played at home this year? Agree ground is hard to play ...we clearly have a culture/ leadership issue

That we do. We have a good list, but when they are fully pressured they completely collapse 

it happens with so much regularity

[praha 11,240]

Damning footage on the AFL website. Granted it's Cornes making the comments but he is spot on. One passage of play where Bulldogs went end to end, and Melbourne’s lack of chase for a team with its season on the line was very concerning for Simon Goodwin.

Uncommon issue in both the Roos and Goodwin eras. 

Astonishing really. He just said, how can a team with its season on the line and 7 points up at half time not be able to chase its opponent. Essentislly hinted at all that we haven't beaten anyone yet and players were saying "How good is this" when they went in at half time in front.

Heard it many many times before.

[Jaded No More 68,879]

1 hour ago, Hogan2014 said:

I look @ Geelong & see they haven’t bottomed out  & made finals every year since 2007 bar maybe once, consistently always win many games during the season, sure they have failed not winning many finals since 2011 flag & their list has changed yet their strong culture & leadership is ingrained... ours is far from it!!!

Never forget that Geelong have the biggest and best home ground advantage in the competition. They make finals on the back of their guaranteed wins at Cardinia Park, or whatever that [censored] is called these days. 

[picket fence 17,131]

9 minutes ago, praha said:

Damning footage on the AFL website. Granted it's Cornes making the comments but he is spot on. One passage of play where Bulldogs went end to end, and Melbourne’s lack of chase for a team with its season on the line was very concerning for Simon Goodwin.

Uncommon issue in both the Roos and Goodwin eras. 

Astonishing really. He just said, how can a team with its season on the line and 7 points up at half time not be able to chase its opponent. Essentislly hinted at all that we haven't beaten anyone yet and players were saying "How good is this" when they went in at half time in front.

Heard it many many times before.

As I have said we lack killer instinct and grunt. Doing the hard things is the hardest thing of all at this club! Is there another Rudi Webster around??

[leave it to deever 17,511]

3 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

it was the Dogs' 6th

Not a bad home advantage  despite crowd numbers.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

12 games a season and they know it like the back of their hand.  Not

Yep  Kardinia park or whatever they call it is the last of the great Vic unbeatable fortress of homeground avantages. As such it has kept the cats as contenders above the skill of their line up for the last 20 years. Its the same rason port...crows and eagles have enjoyed success. Home ground familiarity...crowd...swayed umps and conditions.

Wish we had one. 

 

[loges 6,767]

Reality tells me we will finish in the bottom half of the ladder without beating a team above us unless it's the depleted Pies.

[DemonOX 8,791]

Just now, loges said:

Reality tells me we will finish in the bottom half of the ladder without beating a team above us unless it's the depleted Pies.

And to top it off after another GREAT season we give our first pic to North. Happy times ???

[kev martin 9,858]

We go missing as the score pressure builds when we play good teams. The other team feels comfortable, 25-30 point lead then we go again.

It must be there heads.

Why can't they stay involved for the 4 quarters?

The other teams go and our players become uncreative, conservative, anxious. Are they putting too much pressure on them after the reviews and anxiety crawls in on game day? Perhaps, they don't want the intellectual criticisms. (It is why a direct blast is often better than,  passive aggressive ''reminders').

When we are confident, relaxed, smiling we play well. 

Only a thought, gee they can go missing.

Could be self protection and only want to be accountable within there role when the pressure is on.

The other team start overlapping, they take it on and we are stranded on our little island on the field.

Tell them to stay involved, get the ball and control the pace of the game.

Red mist when we don't have it and blue mind when we have it (the ball).

Go Dees with a bounce back against the saints.

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by kev martin

[Pates 9,660]

38 minutes ago, loges said:

Reality tells me we will finish in the bottom half of the ladder without beating a team above us unless it's the depleted Pies.

I think the dogs game gave the players a harsh wake up call, I've got very little doubt we have players in the team that drink their own bathwater a little too quickly. By all means drink pints of it after you've won the premiership but until then we are still a side that has done nothing!

At the start of the year I had us pegged at about 6th-10th, we've got games against 4 teams that we really should be beating + the saints game next week. I've done a little ladder predictor with us dropping two more games, Saints and GWS. It has us finishing 9th. 

I think it's actually really simple, we beat the Saints next week I can't see us missing finals. We lose and we have to win the rest of our games to make finals, 3 wins means we're in the lap of the gods.

[Adam The God 30,213]

1 hour ago, loges said:

Reality tells me we will finish in the bottom half of the ladder without beating a team above us unless it's the depleted Pies.

That thinking would have seen us finishing outside of the 8 in 2018 though.

[Lucifers Hero 39,719]

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Edited August 23, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero