POSTGAME: Rd 11 vs North Melbourne

[Deemania since 56 6,658]

1 hour ago, FarNorthernD said:

I know Hannan will probably always be in the bottom half dozen players in the side but, for his size, Mitch must have close to the best hands in the comp. 

I think that his kicking skills are as good as anyone's in the team. He has varied capabilities with the ball as seen with some of his 'shots' at goal from the boundary to square front-on, including some of his looping passing to teammates, and some of his more direct feeds with the ball. He has distance and accuracy. He is also a good crumber. His attack with the ball is seldom exaggerated by steadying delays - he gets it, he goals faster than you can blink - quite often. He is a very handy team footballer.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,209]

There is no disputing Trac, Oliver and Brayshaw is the best midfield combo, particularly now all of them realise they have legs and can accelerate away. This is no knock on Viney its about how the three complement each other. Viney is perfectly suited to a high half forward who plays as another midfielder at the contest and can offer more to retain the ball in the forward half. For the best of the team which he is clearly worth a starting 18 spot this should be his role.

We did what we had to do but I hope we dont sit back and think that 22 can match it with the top 4 this year or next. We cant carry all of Jones, AVB and Harmes lack of skill, we need some more dash or polish halfback/wing. We cant carry the inconsistent brilliance of all three of Fritsch, Hannan and Melksham. We need to decide who is the third tall defender, still up for grabs between OMac, Tomlinson and Smith (Shame Petty is not about as an option). 

We’ve given ourselves a shot at finals in the back half of the year but I hope we dont rest on our laurels.

 

[Lucifers Hero 39,966]

25 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Solid win with so much to like. One of the more pleasing aspects is that it was a four quarter performance even if not reflected on the scoreboard in the first half.

One thing I noticed was that the ball was rarely out of bounds which gave the game the appearance of space.

Finally North were putrid and tactically nowhere near the team that beat GWS for example.

Now for Collingwood

Good pick up DJ.

Only 36 hitouts for the game.  Typically it is 60 to 80, rarely below 45.  With 18 goals + 4 bounces to start each quarter means there were only 14 around the ground ball ups or throw-ins last night.  My thoughts on the low numbers:

• minimum stoppages was part of Goodwin's strategy to neutralise Goldstein's ruck strength.  Less chances to dominate. 
• it was clever of Goodwin to give LJ just 69% game time whereas Goldie played 87%.  Goldstein looked flushed and sweating on the bench whereas LJ looked as fresh as a daisy.  He is a cool kid!  Never looked flustered or daunted in any way.
• few stoppages was a good tactic to wear down a less fit opposition giving them less time to rest. 

I'm guessing these 3 things were deliberate pre-game strategies by Goodwin and I applaud him for that creativity.

On unrelated game tactics I thought Langdon spent a lot of time 'sweeping' near op goals, maybe to allow someone else (Lever) to fill the hole in defence that Max normally would.  If my reading of that is correct, again kudos to Goodwin.

Overall, it was a good tactical game and a big coaching win for Goodwin.  Comprehensively out-coached Shaw.

[cantstandyasam 700]

15 hours ago, MurDoc516 said:

We losts the clearences and got decimated in the hitouts... we are getting way too excited here over beating a team that nearly turned it over more than Adelaide did.

I really don't see how Gawn or Viney not staying in the midfield makes us better. I think we just need to be smarter with the overall balance in the team. Do we need Vanders, Harmes(clearly way out of form) and Jones in the side? 3 guys who wants to be in the thick off it when Viney is better than all 3 of them and we could do with some more outside run and better ball users being brought in. Now if that comes from within or from trade/draft that's another story.

I think VDB, Jones and Harmes need to be rested, and bring in Bennell, Viney & Gawn. I'd like them to rest Sparrow too and bring in Smith and try him in the forward line swingman role. 

[cantstandyasam 700]

14 hours ago, A F said:

Rubbish. Gave us a lot of penetration and went backwards and retained possession where appropriate. We're rubbish when we go consistently long down the line. We tried to use the angles from half back to free up players who could rebound through the corridor. Langdon played his role.

Wish he was more accurate when shooting for goal.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

40 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

Spargo is a good footballer but without any outstanding traits and at 173cm and 70somethingkg his body size will always count against him.  If he was 180cm/82kg he'd carve out a solid AFL career but unfortunately I think he's unlikely to make it.

You sound like old dee.

Are you suggesting that if he was 7cm taller, with the otherwise precise same skill set, he'd be a better player?

His strengths are in things for which his height is irrelevant: pressure and inside 50 link up play.

He may not make it, but if he doesn't it won't be because of his height. 

15 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Good pick up DJ.

Only 36 hitouts for the game.  Typically it is 60 to 80, rarely below 45.  With 18 goals + 4 bounces to start each quarter means there were only 14 around the ground ball ups or throw-ins last night.  My thoughts on the low numbers:

• minimum stoppages was part of Goodwin's strategy to neutralise Goldstein's ruck strength.  Less chances to dominate. 
• it was clever of Goodwin to give LJ just 69% game time whereas Goldie played 87%.  Goldstein looked flushed and sweating on the bench whereas LJ looked as fresh as a daisy.  He is a cool kid!  Never looked flustered or daunted in any way.
• few stoppages was a good tactic to wear down a less fit opposition giving them less time to rest. 

I'm guessing these 3 things were deliberate pre-game strategies by Goodwin and I applaud him for that creativity.

On unrelated game tactics I thought Langdon spent a lot of time 'sweeping' near op goals, maybe to allow someone else (Lever) to fill the hole in defence that Max normally would.  If my reading of that is correct, again kudos to Goodwin.

Overall, it was a good tactical game and a big coaching win for Goodwin.  Comprehensively out-coached Shaw.

I'm not entirely sure this was all on Goodwin.

North tried, hard, to play keepings off in the first half. They were content to kick-mark a lot, rather than playing on and run/handballing.

The lack of stoppages I think was also in part because North was failing to kill off many of our scoring chains which let us get inside 50 and generate shots on goal with ease.

[TickleMeTyson 137]

15 hours ago, Mickey said:

It's official. Brayshaw and Viney cant play in the same team at present. No surprise that Brayshaw had a ripper 2018 when viney was out injured all year.

I think it is utterly bizarre that we can't seem to find a way to rotate our midfielders in a way that gives Gus more time in there, resting Trac/Clarry/Viney forward. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by TickleMeTyson

[cantstandyasam 700]

14 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

Trac, Clarrie, Viney & Gus.

Clarrie in the middle is a non-negotiable, Trac is about to become our premier mid (if he hasn't become so already) and Gus has shown that whilst talented in the middle, is lost elsewhere.

Which begs the question, what do we do with the one extra we have? Where do we play Jack?

 

Wing

 

12 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

I love modern umpiring. Last week Max had a serial pest charging into him repeatedly off the contest but that’s OK. Tonight Harmes takes a Mark with an opposition player coming front on at him. He throws a a clenched fist at the players thigh to let him know he didn’t appreciate the attention but wait that is a free kick! A north player runs back with the flight of the ball and gets collected, not high but that again is a free? I could go on about the tackles that start correctly but the player ducks their head so an arm goes over their head and that is a high tackle, then you get Kossie running onto a loose ball only to be obviously retarded right in front of the umpire but that is play on. I no longer know what the rules of the game are. 

Bartlett needs to complain, need a please explain from the umps

 

[TickleMeTyson 137]

14 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

Trac, Clarrie, Viney & Gus.

Clarrie in the middle is a non-negotiable, Trac is about to become our premier mid (if he hasn't become so already) and Gus has shown that whilst talented in the middle, is lost elsewhere.

Which begs the question, what do we do with the one extra we have? Where do we play Jack?

 

I'd like to see Jack spend more time forward, could be as damaging as someone like Zorko I reckon. He will bring the necessary forward pressure and Richo thinks he is the best set-shot in the team. Not sure why we haven't tried it. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,966]

1 minute ago, TickleMeTyson said:

I'd like to see Jack spend more time forward, could be as damaging as someone like Zorko I reckon. He will bring the necessary forward pressure and Richo thinks he is the best set-shot in the team. Not sure why we haven't tried it. 

Maybe he doesn't want to play anywhere else.  And being Captain/Vice captain has allowed him a 'right' to have a big say.

 

[dieter 3,325]

I really like the way the new players took the game on: Sparrow, Jackson, Rivers and Pickett. Good signs for the future.

 

[doc roet 1,287]

Viney would make a fantastic half forward.With his tank he would run rings around any defenders and have a heap in reserve. 

[old55 23,625]

17 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

You sound like old dee.

Are you suggesting that if he was 7cm taller, with the otherwise precise same skill set, he'd be a better player?

His strengths are in things for which his height is irrelevant: pressure and inside 50 link up play.

He may not make it, but if he doesn't it won't be because of his height. 

Well there's few greater insults than that!

The problem for Spargo is that he is and always will be outbodied in the contest, he just doesn't have innate core strength like Nev and he doesn't have pace or agility to avoid the contest.  If he was 180/82 he would not be so vulnerable in this area.

Pickett has electric pace, Caleb Daniel is very clean and is a beautiful kick - Spargo doesn't have any outstanding attribute to compensate for his shortcoming.

[Lucifers Hero 39,966]

46 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I'm not entirely sure this was all on Goodwin.

North tried, hard, to play keepings off in the first half. They were content to kick-mark a lot, rather than playing on and run/handballing.

The lack of stoppages I think was also in part because North was failing to kill off many of our scoring chains which let us get inside 50 and generate shots on goal with ease.

North failed to kill off our scoring chains but for the most part we played well away from the boundaries limiting chances for throw-ins.  And we were first to the ball and played on at all costs.  The scoring chains were our coaching and players and less North's deficiencies.

Goodwin takes the heat when things don't go well.  I'm happy to give him due credit when things go well.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[Diamond_Jim 12,597]

57 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Good pick up DJ.

Only 36 hitouts for the game.  Typically it is 60 to 80, rarely below 45.  With 18 goals + 4 bounces to start each quarter means there were only 14 around the ground ball ups or throw-ins last night.  My thoughts on the low numbers:

Thanks LH

I have found the tendency for boundary line play very irritating.

In the GWS game I mentioned North forced GWS to play the boundary thus negating the superior skills of the GWS team. Made for a horrible spectacle but North won. Accordingly I was ready for the same tactic.

18 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

North failed to kill off our scoring chains but for the most part we played well away from the boundaries limiting chances for throw-ins.  And we were first to the ball and played on at all costs.  The scoring chains were our coaching and less North's deficiencies.

Goodwin takes the heat when things don't go well.  I'm happy to give him due credit when things go well

If it was Goodwin's plan then as you say he deserves great credit.

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,704]

5 hours ago, Melb-A-Toast said:

Just from observation, without supporting data, Spargo was good throughout the game. Defensive forward pressure very good. Was delivering inside 50s and part of scoring chains. 

He took his chance last night Spargs.

[PaulRB 6,392]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Good pick up DJ.

Only 36 hitouts for the game.  Typically it is 60 to 80, rarely below 45.  With 18 goals + 4 bounces to start each quarter means there were only 14 around the ground ball ups or throw-ins last night.  My thoughts on the low numbers:

• minimum stoppages was part of Goodwin's strategy to neutralise Goldstein's ruck strength.  Less chances to dominate. 
• it was clever of Goodwin to give LJ just 69% game time whereas Goldie played 87%.  Goldstein looked flushed and sweating on the bench whereas LJ looked as fresh as a daisy.  He is a cool kid!  Never looked flustered or daunted in any way.
• few stoppages was a good tactic to wear down a less fit opposition giving them less time to rest. 

I'm guessing these 3 things were deliberate pre-game strategies by Goodwin and I applaud him for that creativity.

On unrelated game tactics I thought Langdon spent a lot of time 'sweeping' near op goals, maybe to allow someone else (Lever) to fill the hole in defence that Max normally would.  If my reading of that is correct, again kudos to Goodwin.

Overall, it was a good tactical game and a big coaching win for Goodwin.  Comprehensively out-coached Shaw.

Great analysis and acknowledgement of Goodwin working to shape the game to our advantage.

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,704]

48 minutes ago, doc roet said:

Viney would make a fantastic half forward.With his tank he would run rings around any defenders and have a heap in reserve. 

I've mentioned this before, Viney has great burst speed, tackling and great goal sense.

Its a no brainer for him to spend more time in the Fwd line interchanging with Gus in the Guts.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Win4theAges

[jnrmac 20,104]

5 hours ago, Forest Demon said:

Special mention to Rivers, I’m really liking the look of him, particularly his first game v Carlton and then again last night.

All 3 of last year’s draftees are showing lots of promise.

There is a bit in this. I think we have drafted guys with talent and work ethic. And they are doing a good job.  But I also think we are not relying on them to lift us up off the bottom of the ladder. They're not expected to be our saviours.

We now have a group of seasoned players in the right age group that are expected to perform week in week out. They haven't been doing that consistently but its starting to look like they are getting their act together. 

That makes our recruits look a bit better i suspect.

[leucopogon 1,519]

The big thing I took out of last night is that our zone must have been excellent as there were a number of occasions when North players seemed in two minds with ball in hand even under little pressure. A few times they even had to take rushed, obviously improvised bounces due to not seeing the right option up field. We'll done Dees. 

Of course it also helped that they butchered the pill worse than any side I've seen all year. 

[jnrmac 20,104]

5 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

Pleasing to see Hibbo in some great form the last few weeks. Seems to have slowed his game down a bit and is making smart decisions with ball in hand. Thought he was really solid last night with some important rebounds. 

Hibbo has personally had a terrible year losing his brother and for him to come out and play to the high level he has in the past is an outstanding effort. He was terrible last year so good to see back at his best.

Langdon is another that doesn't get enough kudos for mine. His running is incredible. Everything a wingman should be. His kicking isn't elite but it's also not as bad as some here make out. He was also very fumbly last night butoverall he has been a terrific recruit

Lever is another that is climbing back into form. Well done.

Darren Burgess might be the recruit of the year. I think we have won 7 final quarters and lost 2. That will give the team a great deal of confidence we can overun most teams 

I'd like to see the team perform well against the Pies and the Dogs to be completely convinced we have turned a corner - so many false dawns before. they look both mid-table teams so we have to be able to match and beat them. Big tests coming up.

[old55 23,625]

3 minutes ago, leucopogon said:

The big thing I took out of last night is that our zone must have been excellent as there were a number of occasions when North players seemed in two minds with ball in hand even under little pressure. A few times they even had to take rushed, obviously improvised bounces due to not seeing the right option up field. We'll done Dees. 

Of course it also helped that they butchered the pill worse than any side I've seen all year. 

Agreed.  It's impossible to see on the TV but our zone must be really good at present because you could see the frustration on the North players faces when they had the ball at half back.  When they tried going very short to work into space we were able to win it back consistently.  It will be interesting to see how we go against a much better side who can play this way like the Eagles if we are fortunate enough to get another crack at them.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Pollyanna

[old dee 23,801]

2 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Hibbo has personally had a terrible year losing his brother and for him to come out and play to the high level he has in the past is an outstanding effort. He was terrible last year so good to see back at his best.

Langdon is another that doesn't get enough kudos for mine. His running is incredible. Everything a wingman should be. His kicking isn't elite but it's also not as bad as some here make out. He was also very fumbly last night butoverall he has been a terrific recruit

Lever is another that is climbing back into form. Well done.

Darren Burgess might be the recruit of the year. I think we have won 7 final quarters and lost 2. That will give the team a great deal of confidence we can overun most teams 

I'd like to see the team perform well against the Pies and the Dogs to be completely convinced we have turned a corner - so many false dawns before. they look both mid-table teams so we have to be able to match and beat them. Big tests coming up.

Agree 100% jnr.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

1 hour ago, Pollyanna said:

Well there's few greater insults than that!

The problem for Spargo is that he is and always will be outbodied in the contest, he just doesn't have innate core strength like Nev and he doesn't have pace or agility to avoid the contest.  If he was 180/82 he would not be so vulnerable in this area.

Pickett has electric pace, Caleb Daniel is very clean and is a beautiful kick - Spargo doesn't have any outstanding attribute to compensate for his shortcoming.

I'm not sure we had the chance last night to see if Spargo had improved his strength (core or otherwise).

He has agility, in the sense that he can (and does) move around the field well.

His kicking clearly isn't at Daniel's level, nor does he have the pace of Pickett or McDonald-Tipungwuti. But I don't subscribe to the view that his height means that he has to be elite at something to make it.

I saw enough last night, as well as in 2018, to believe that he has good enough kicking, good enough pace, and enough brains, to make it. I don't suggest it's a certainty though, just that it's a possibility.

7 minutes ago, leucopogon said:

The big thing I took out of last night is that our zone must have been excellent as there were a number of occasions when North players seemed in two minds with ball in hand even under little pressure. A few times they even had to take rushed, obviously improvised bounces due to not seeing the right option up field. We'll done Dees. 

Of course it also helped that they butchered the pill worse than any side I've seen all year. 

Our zone has been excellent, IMO, every week since the Carlton game with two exceptions: Richmond and Port.

It's been a constant source of improvement, driven by May and Lever, and has held up well vs Geelong and Brisbane.

Yes, part of it last night was North's poor kicking, but the poor kicking was often secondary to a poor choice they felt like they had to make because they couldn't find an option down the line or through our zone.

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

1 hour ago, Win4theAges said:

He took his chance last night Spargs.

To me he's keeping Bennell out of the team and that's a pretty good achievement.