19 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

8 of those were in the last four games though, including 3 against GWS and IIRC each one was for holding the ball.

So I think the recency effect has kicked in on that front.

I also think it's correct to argue that Viney regularly takes on a tackler when he should instead have released the ball. I don't think that always shows up as a holding the ball free - it might result in a poor handpass or kick under pressure, or a turnover without a free kick, or even a free kick to him. 

I'm 100% in favour of Viney staying but IMO there is improvement in both where we play Viney (i.e. midfield/forward split) and how he plays.

And more diversity in the midfield role he plays. Still maintain he could be better used as a stopper like Harmes. He's done it before anyhow.

19 hours ago, Pulp Fritschon said:

No doubt our midfield mix needs a change up. Whether that is personnel or tactics. 

If Viney left would we be better off? Not sure either way but probably not.  But what I am very sure of given time to think about it is that seeing Viney running around in another jumper would be a very sad day. 

Hope he stays 

Both. Our stoppage set ups are ordinary and predictable. Knights at Geelong sets up the mids in a really interesting way. As does Kingsley at Richmond. We need a midfield coach like that, who is prepared to get the mix right and be unpredictable to opposition in the way we set up, but predictable internally to ensure the best connection between Gawn and the mids.

18 hours ago, Pates said:

Do we know the extent of Gus’s injury? If he’s potentially missing a fair bit of footy in 2021 then we will need Jack in the guts. 

I will be pretty disappointed to see him leave and sicked to see someone with the name Viney going to the Cats. 

I'd play Viney and Harmes as defensive mids alongside first possession mid in Oliver. Have Petracca rotating in and out of there too.

Simply have to sign JV up for a further 4 years through to end 2024. 

He has the heart of a lion. You just can’t replace players like Viney. 

2016 B&F winner.
2017 runner up in B&F.
Had foot issues which impacted his 2018.
3rd B&F in 2019
3rd B&F in 2020  Leadership award in 2020.  

Heart and soul of the club.  

 

 

So rapt he has signed on if it true...! Heart and soul and still has more upside to his game. We haven’t seen the best of Jack yet! Bring on 2021! 

On 9/22/2020 at 9:04 AM, Lord Travis said:

Have heard Viney is likely to stay, but other players such as TMac may be on the move.

TMac unhappy with the way the club has handled his body the past few years, both from injury management and changing body shape to add bulk which caused further issues.

My spouse-person refers to T Mac as 'Luther' from Umbrella academy.

I would certainly understand him wanting to leave if the changes to his body shape are due to being injected with chimp-serum.  That's Essendon-level stuff.

Are we there yet?

21 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Are we there yet?

To see Jack in any other colours other than red and blue would be very hard to stomach - particularly Geelong. 
 

To those who think he’s too much of what we already have and stifles our game well, I‘d really like to see a plausible analysis of your thinking. 

37 minutes ago, McQueen said:

To see Jack in any other colours other than red and blue would be very hard to stomach - particularly Geelong. 
 

To those who think he’s too much of what we already have and stifles our game well, I‘d really like to see a plausible analysis of your thinking. 

Instead of making the first right decision, he tries to run through people. If he gets through, it's more often a rushed disposal. Because his play in unpredictable, his team mates are never sure whether to run forward or cover for the turn over, meaning we're nowhere.

I think it's pretty clear that Jack will be playing at Melbourne next year, so he needs to play a different role. Forward pocket and defensive mid.

Edited September 26, 20204 yr by A F

8 minutes ago, A F said:

I think it's pretty clear that Jack will be playing at Melbourne next year, so he need to play a different role. Forward pocket and defensive mid.

But that's the same role that he plays now!

21 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

But that's the same role that he plays now!

A couple of times this year, but the majority of the time he thinks he's playing first possession mid and crashes into Oliver and Petracca and is nowhere near clean enough.

I will never question Jack's toughness or commitment to the contest, but he plays dumb football and he's 26, and has been playing dumb football for a long time. Is that Jack's fault, the coaches fault or a bit of both? I'd suggest you'll point to his BnF finish and say he's doing the right things. 

I'd argue he's damaging the connection of our midfield by the aforementioned manner in which he plays.

I think it’s a coaching issue rather than a Jack Viney issue. We rarely have anyone near the outside of a pack waiting to receive the ball. Our mids are all see ball get ball. 

Edited September 26, 20204 yr by Ethan Tremblay

58 minutes ago, A F said:

Instead of making the first right decision, he tries to run through people. If he gets through, it's more often a rushed disposal. Because his play in unpredictable, his team mates are never sure whether to run forward or cover for the turn over, meaning we're nowhere.

I think it's pretty clear that Jack will be playing at Melbourne next year, so he needs to play a different role. Forward pocket and defensive mid.

He plays his role and is a very good footballer. 
 

Do you not think he’d slot in the a Richmond or Geelong team??

He’s not the problem is what I’m trying to say. I consider him vital to our hopes moving forward because he is ‘unique’. 

13 minutes ago, McQueen said:

He plays his role and is a very good footballer. 
 

Do you not think he’d slot in the a Richmond or Geelong team??

He’s not the problem is what I’m trying to say. I consider him vital to our hopes moving forward because he is ‘unique’. 

Fair enough. 

14 minutes ago, McQueen said:

He plays his role and is a very good footballer. 
 

Do you not think he’d slot in the a Richmond or Geelong team??

He’s not the problem is what I’m trying to say. I consider him vital to our hopes moving forward because he is ‘unique’. 

Geelong actively had a dip at getting him, so I'd say they are pretty certain he would be best 22 there.

7 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Geelong actively had a dip at getting him, so I'd say they are pretty certain he would be best 22 there.

Indeed. 
 

Now I need to consume a beer and cook a mother [censored] T bone. 

Just now, McQueen said:

Indeed. 
 

Now I need to consume a beer and cook a mother [censored] T bone. 

23 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Mushroom sauce. 
 

Game over. ??

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I think it’s a coaching issue rather than a Jack Viney issue. We rarely have anyone near the outside of a pack waiting to receive the ball. Our mids are all see ball get ball. 

Alot of our problems are COACHING issues and if goody stays he better change otherwise it’s more of the same next season. 

Melb don't have enough quality players/depth. He's one of only six or seven that are consistently good. In this context you'd hate to lose Jack.

It's how we address that lack of depth that I'm keen to see in this off-season.

He needs to spend the entire off season developing his right foot .

3 hours ago, A F said:

A couple of times this year, but the majority of the time he thinks he's playing first possession mid and crashes into Oliver and Petracca and is nowhere near clean enough.

No, that's the role he plays, especially in stoppages. He plays as the defensive midfielder, and he's pretty much the only one who does in our team. He is really good at taking out opposition midfielders in stoppages and creating space for the others to win the ball in. As a result, he's probably the most important player in our midfield. 

We have many ball winners, like Oliver, Petracca and Brayshaw, so if one of them misses then they are replaced by another. But if Viney misses then the defensive midfielder replacements are far inferior, like Vandenberg or Melksham, although Sparrow did some in the middle of the year.

Viney currently is a defensive midfielder, and an exceptionally good one. That's why he does so well in best and fairests because his role, whilst not well understood, is extremely important and he's extremely good at it.

Edited September 26, 20204 yr by Axis of Bob

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

 

1 hour ago, Axis of Bob said:

No, that's the role he plays, especially in stoppages. He plays as the defensive midfielder, and he's pretty much the only one who does in our team. He is really good at taking out opposition midfielders in stoppages and creating space for the others to win the ball in. As a result, he's probably the most important player in our midfield. 

We have many ball winners, like Oliver, Petracca and Brayshaw, so if one of them misses then they are replaced by another. But if Viney misses then the defensive midfielder replacements are far inferior, like Vandenberg or Melksham, although Sparrow did some in the middle of the year.

Viney currently is a defensive midfielder, and an exceptionally good one. That's why he does so well in best and fairests because his role, whilst not well understood, is extremely important and he's extremely good at it.

taylor adams plays a similar role with the pies, hence why they rate him so highly - creates blockages for pendlebury, treloar, elliott, de goey, etc in the same way that viney does for oliver, petracca, brayshaw

sparrow is the obvious replacement for viney when he needs a rotation, which is why not having sparrow in the latter stages of the year did, i think, make a difference to our midfield and why i'm keen on him staying for 2021 and beyond

the biggest issue with losing viney is, imo, we're automatically down a first preference midfielder; someone - be it brayshaw, harmes, sparrow or otherwise - will need to step up their workrate and increase their own contribution significantly

5 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

No, that's the role he plays, especially in stoppages. He plays as the defensive midfielder, and he's pretty much the only one who does in our team. He is really good at taking out opposition midfielders in stoppages and creating space for the others to win the ball in. As a result, he's probably the most important player in our midfield. 

We have many ball winners, like Oliver, Petracca and Brayshaw, so if one of them misses then they are replaced by another. But if Viney misses then the defensive midfielder replacements are far inferior, like Vandenberg or Melksham, although Sparrow did some in the middle of the year.

Viney currently is a defensive midfielder, and an exceptionally good one. That's why he does so well in best and fairests because his role, whilst not well understood, is extremely important and he's extremely good at it.

I disagree entirely. He tries to go for the first possession. That's not defensive, that's attacking. 

Not only is Oliver our best clearance player, leading Jack by 38 clearances (with only one more game played than Jack), Oliver is also our best defensive player, leading our tackle count by 25 over Jack and by 65 in pressure acts. But Jack's our best defensive midfielder and Oliver is the ball winner? 

Oliver does both to an extraordinarily high standard and is more valuable than Jack at both. Viney should only be playing the defensive role if he's ever rolling through the midfield.

Outside of the St Kilda game, where he very obviously had a job to do in the second half of that game on Steele, he's played predominantly, IMV, as an attacking mid who tackles.

Edited September 26, 20204 yr by A F

 

Todd Viney ??‍♂️.