4 minutes ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

Kozzie is being picked on potential is he not? Rivers a bit the same? I am saying that if the 2s were up and running, these blokes would, in any other side, be earning their spots. We are playing kids as if this season is a development year. Answer me this is: Jetta better than Lockhart at the moment? Is Bennell a better option than Kozzie at present? I am not saying these blokes won’t surpass their peers before year’s end, but I am not sure they are ahead right now. 
 

goodwin has clearly shown his incompetence at the selection table this week. If I see Lockhart laughing after making a mistake this week, I’ll cancel my $450 jumper purchase 

Kozzie has shown he is more then ready for senior footy. Fitted in seamlessly. 

Just now, Leoncelli_36 said:

Kozzie is being picked on potential is he not? Rivers a bit the same? I am saying that if the 2s were up and running, these blokes would, in any other side, be earning their spots. We are playing kids as if this season is a development year. Answer me this is: Jetta better than Lockhart at the moment? Is Bennell a better option than Kozzie at present? I am not saying these blokes won’t surpass their peers before year’s end, but I am not sure they are ahead right now. 
 

goodwin has clearly shown his incompetence at the selection table this week. If I see Lockhart laughing after making a mistake this week, I’ll cancel my $450 jumper purchase 

But the idea that someone is being 'gifted' games is that they don't deserve them.  Clearly, both of these boys deserve their spots as they have been good at senior level so far.  Rivers looks like a 10 year plus player for us, while Kozzie brings an exciting dynamic to our forward line, one we have been crying out for for a while.  They have more than justified their selection in the side, and thus are not being 'gifted' games.

And on form, right now, is Jetta better than Lockhart?  Hard to say.  I love Nev, but his form has been poor.  Lockhart probably didn't do a whole lot better on the weekend so they would cancel each other out.  

No, Bennell isn't a better option than Kozzie.  Kozzie has already proven that.  While Harley is a slick ball user, he can't run out games and doesn't do nearly the amount of defensive work that Kozzie does.

So, in my opinion, those three you mentioned are not being gifted games at all.  While Lockhart would need a better game than last week to potentially keep his spot, his pre-season form and his game against the Eagles suggests that he has earned the right to get games.  Rivers and Kozzie are, to me, already best 22 players and will be for a long time to come.

It makes no difference who we pick as long as we win. 

 

12 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

So we are paying huge money for a lock dowdefender who is providing little offensively? The following players could easily do what Lever is doing better or would provide the same output for half the pay.

Dodee, Gardiner, Docherty, Howe, Ryan, Sicily, Robertson, Haynes, Shepperd, Hurn, Stewart, Grimes, Vlaustin, Broad and I'm sure a stack more.

If Lever was our 10th or 15th highest player I would judge him differently but we are not getting value for money.

Just so I am clear, you asked me a question... I answered it (in the best way that I could) and then you come back with a different statement/argument. 

You've asked about 'restricting having a big impact on games'. I'd say he and his colleagues have done that pretty well.

BUT, now you're stating, it's about his offence.

I dont know mate about the backline providing all that much offence.. Maybe that's Hibbered's, Rivers's Jett's, Salem's job, rather than May, OMac, Lever, Smith's job... but Im just guessing.

 

Ps... good job on the bloke for negotiating his pay, so that he and his family are protected, when his knees blow out in Rn 12 and his career is over.  His market worth, is what the market is prepared to pay.

Edited July 3, 20205 yr by Engorged Onion

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

But the idea that someone is being 'gifted' games is that they don't deserve them.  Clearly, both of these boys deserve their spots as they have been good at senior level so far.  Rivers looks like a 10 year plus player for us, while Kozzie brings an exciting dynamic to our forward line, one we have been crying out for for a while.  They have more than justified their selection in the side, and thus are not being 'gifted' games.

And on form, right now, is Jetta better than Lockhart?  Hard to say.  I love Nev, but his form has been poor.  Lockhart probably didn't do a whole lot better on the weekend so they would cancel each other out.  

No, Bennell isn't a better option than Kozzie.  Kozzie has already proven that.  While Harley is a slick ball user, he can't run out games and doesn't do nearly the amount of defensive work that Kozzie does.

So, in my opinion, those three you mentioned are not being gifted games at all.  While Lockhart would need a better game than last week to potentially keep his spot, his pre-season form and his game against the Eagles suggests that he has earned the right to get games.  Rivers and Kozzie are, to me, already best 22 players and will be for a long time to come.

Agree to disagree. I don’t think we have picked our best 22 and fwiw of the three mentioned, Lockhart is the only one I would have dropped. Melksham and AVB are lucky to retain spots this week. But it’s just an opinion

Just now, Leoncelli_36 said:

Agree to disagree. I don’t think we have picked our best 22 and fwiw of the three mentioned, Lockhart is the only one I would have dropped. Melksham and AVB are lucky to retain spots this week. But it’s just an opinion

Absolutely.  Nothing wrong with having that opinion.  I'm just taking a different one.  No worries from my end.

To me, I think it's terrific to see that injection of youth.  Both Rivers and Kozzie are giving us something we lack - Rivers is playing the 'Hibberd' role a little and we can see that he is already confident enough to take the game on, while also doing some good work defensively.  Kozzie is fantastic to watch and he already looks as though he belongs at this level.

Age should be no barrier to selection, and those two are good examples of it.

Just curious - who would you play instead of both Kozzie and Rivers if you had to make those changes?  If they're being 'gifted games', as you put it, then I would have thought you had others in mind to play that role.

29 minutes ago, Demonjase said:

Jones had 30 possessions and 7 clearances in the practice match against Geelong... and Bennell kick 4... Wow wee Goodwin would love to know what’s going through your head

 

Let’s hope we don’t treat our former captain like we treated Green & Macca ...  

9 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Just so I am clear, you asked me a question... I answered it (in the best way that I could) and then you come back with a different statement/argument. 

You've asked about 'restricting having a big impact on games'. I'd say he and his colleagues have done that pretty well.

BUT, now you're stating, it's about his offence.

I dont know mate about the backline providing all that much offence.. Maybe that's Hibbered's, Rivers's Jett's, Salem's job, rather than May, OMac, Lever, Smith's job... but Im just guessing.

It is all related, football is a two way game. He either plays on the elite players or he needs to dominate offensively. He is doing neither at the moment. He didn't play on Darling or Kennedy in round 1, let's see how he goes against Riewoldt (jokes, we all know that it will be Smith). If he is not playing on a key player he needs to be giving a lot more drive than he does. 

I agree with your last point and that's why Jetta isn't playing now but if Lever doesn't play as a tall then he needs to do this.

Edited July 3, 20205 yr by Watts the matter

6 minutes ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

Agree to disagree. I don’t think we have picked our best 22 and fwiw of the three mentioned, Lockhart is the only one I would have dropped. Melksham and AVB are lucky to retain spots this week. But it’s just an opinion

I think Tommy is the luckiest to get a game at the moment...Melk close behind him.

I'm not sure why AVB was selected last week, he's strong at the player but offers nothing else.

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Absolutely.  Nothing wrong with having that opinion.  I'm just taking a different one.  No worries from my end.

To me, I think it's terrific to see that injection of youth.  Both Rivers and Kozzie are giving us something we lack - Rivers is playing the 'Hibberd' role a little and we can see that he is already confident enough to take the game on, while also doing some good work defensively.  Kozzie is fantastic to watch and he already looks as though he belongs at this level.

Age should be no barrier to selection, and those two are good examples of it.

Just curious - who would you play instead of both Kozzie and Rivers if you had to make those changes?  If they're being 'gifted games', as you put it, then I would have thought you had others in mind to play that role.

I said I wouldn’t drop either. If I was dropping players, I would not have brought in a half fit Hannan or half fit AVB, when I could have played Harley forward for 50% game time and Jones in Vanders role. We are not in a position to nurse blokes back into the side, unless they are A grade stars, which Bennell is. The fact he kicked 4 in the praccy match and Jones had 30, tells me that both were more ready for senior football than the aforementioned. 

1 minute ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

I said I wouldn’t drop either. If I was dropping players, I would not have brought in a half fit Hannan or half fit AVB, when I could have played Harley forward for 50% game time and Jones in Vanders role. We are not in a position to nurse blokes back into the side, unless they are A grade stars, which Bennell is. The fact he kicked 4 in the praccy match and Jones had 30, tells me that both were more ready for senior football than the aforementioned. 

Okay... but going by your opinion from earlier, you said Kozzie and Rivers are being gifted games.  If that's the case, then you would believe that others deserve to be there ahead of them.  Otherwise, they are there because they deserve to be and are not being gifted games at all.

While I have plenty of respect for him, and think he has always given 100% during some very tough times, I think the game might be passing Jonesy by.  That's not to say he can't play a role in the side, but he was awful against Carlton.  He deserved to be dropped.  I'm not too sure he is the answer.

10 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

It is all related, football is a two way game. He either plays on the elite players or he needs to dominate offensively. He is doing neither at the moment. He didn't play on Darling or Kennedy in round 1, let's see how he goes against Riewoldt (jokes, we all know that it will be Smith). If he is not playing on a key player he needs to be giving a lot more drive than he does. 

I agree with your last point and that's why Jetta isn't playing now but if Lever doesn't play as a tall then he needs to do this.

@Watts the matter

For $800+k on the surface I would agree - it feels like he needs to be on the elite players, or he needs to dominate offensively. 

But perhaps he dominates DEFENSIVELY, it just doesn't look like it, in the way that it used to with man on man. I'm thinking with Scarlett, or even Danny Hughes (yeah, [censored] joke)

The stats from the chart before you dismissed are still accurate. The bloke has had knee reco's and he still performs at that level, he is ahead of Rance in some areas. Was Rance an offensive weapon, nope, he drifted (or more precisely accelerated from contest to contest)...we forget that Lever is 6 years younger. 6 [censored] years... that's 100 odd games.

I don't know your age, but we used to be in awe of Schwarz of what he could do on the field pre knees and even post knees sometimes and gave due regard to the fact that he had done his knees... it's just the Lever isn't in the sexy part of the ground to be celebrated. He is solid, and he will [censored] up, just like Schwarz dropped marks, Lever will mistime things.

Now for $800k, what do I want? I would have paid $800k for Rance and Lever is 6 years younger and on track for that. 

ps... he points better than anyone I know, aside from Steven May.

Edited July 3, 20205 yr by Engorged Onion

2 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

Thought this was an interesting chart re: Lever. 

Just wait until he gets 2.3 more spoils/intercepts a match, channel 7 will FAAAAWN over him like Rance.

Interesting graphic, but Lever gets well looked after in his matchups. 

12 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Interesting graphic, but Lever gets well looked after in his matchups. 

Sure... I can't be bothered arguing it. But walk me through your stats @Fat Tony

God, i dont even know Jake, or care for him that much.. I just think he is been unfairly represented.

He is Alex Rance's height, 10kg lighter and im pretty sure Alex Rance was not fetted on as a 23year old, and he is on par with Sir Alex

I'd be pretty sure in 2013/14 he wasn't the full back...happy to be proven wrong though.

 

I may have just turned in to this bloke...

 

Edited July 3, 20205 yr by Engorged Onion

6 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Okay... but going by your opinion from earlier, you said Kozzie and Rivers are being gifted games.  If that's the case, then you would believe that others deserve to be there ahead of them.  Otherwise, they are there because they deserve to be and are not being gifted games at all.

While I have plenty of respect for him, and think he has always given 100% during some very tough times, I think the game might be passing Jonesy by.  That's not to say he can't play a role in the side, but he was awful against Carlton.  He deserved to be dropped.  I'm not too sure he is the answer.

I guess proof will be in the pudding this weekend. I expect us to kick a total of 5 goals. The match committee have lost the plot. 

2 hours ago, John Demonic said:

Richmond aren't annihilating anyone but Adelaide right now. ?

Until they anniliate US!

3 hours ago, DemonOX said:

Unchanged from last week. Awesome cause that worked really well and we won oh wait on.........

FMD MFC never fails to amaze and delight its supporters. 

Yeah coz we are just a smidgeon of a win..... NOT

• With the fourth best defence in the comp in 2020, I respectfully suggest that Jake Lever isn't the problem at Melbourne.
• And this contribution to the backline's performance after only 11 games back from a knee reconstruction.
• And it's not as though Melbourne has had a high percentage success rate with first round picks over the years. With our record in this area I was happy to trade two first round picks for a 6"5, 22 year old player yet to reach his prime. He showed in his time at Adelaide to be one of the premier backmen in the comp. According to the All Australian selectors, he was in the best 40 players going around in 2017 and in the best 22 players under 22 years old in both 2016 and 2017.
• I'm pretty happy with our deal on Lever quite frankly. Yes, we paid with two first round picks, but right now I'm not slashing my wrists over it. In fact, I was delighted with it in 2017 and I'm just as happy now. 
• And I'm just curious, how many notable and credible ex-players or commentators have been highly critical of Lever's footy ability or the deal Melbourne did to get him to the Club?

Edited July 3, 20205 yr by Queanbeyan Demon
Typo

20 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

I'm pretty happy with our deal on Lever quite frankly. Yes, we paid with two first round picks

I agree about Leaver because he is a smart footballer. To trade Hogan and bring a too old too expensive May and Kolodjashnij is what closed our premiership window.The Suns regeneration has a bit to do with finding a sucker to take May. We would be in better shape if we took Hanley.

3 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

I agree about Leaver because he is a smart footballer. To trade Hogan and bring a too old too expensive May and Kolodjashnij is what closed our premiership window.The Suns regeneration has a bit to do with finding a sucker to take May. We would be in better shape if we took Hanley.

?‍♂️?‍♂️

4 hours ago, rjay said:

...and that goes to Wallace's point that we have players not at AFL standard.

Yet.

18 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

I agree about Leaver because he is a smart footballer. To trade Hogan and bring a too old too expensive May and Kolodjashnij is what closed our premiership window.The Suns regeneration has a bit to do with finding a sucker to take May. We would be in better shape if we took Hanley.

Please the facts are Hogan want to go back home so the club assisted him as he was & still suffering mental health issues.. though I agree I would have chased a  Gun key forward/midfielder or gone to the draft.. 

42 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

Please the facts are Hogan want to go back home so the club assisted him as he was & still suffering mental health issues

From what I have heard Hogan was happy to stay and it was the club that was keen to move him on. You can say he wanted to go home or he would have left after his contract but I think it is only the club and fans justifying the trade to feel better about it. I believe he had a taste of success and wanted it to continue.  I have not seen any statement from Hogan saying he wanted to go home at any time. It was the club that did the deal and it has wasted 5 years development. It probably will ultimately cost Goodwin his job because he does not have the players needed to have success. The MFC is crap at trading.

10 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

From what I have heard Hogan was happy to stay and it was the club that was keen to move him on. You can say he wanted to go home or he would have left after his contract but I think it is only the club and fans justifying the trade to feel better about it. I believe he had a taste of success and wanted it to continue.  I have not seen any statement from Hogan saying he wanted to go home at any time. It was the club that did the deal and it has wasted 5 years development. It probably will ultimately cost Goodwin his job because he does not have the players needed to have success. The MFC is crap at trading.

“We came to the conclusion that having a fresh start and playing in front of friends and family was probably a bit more important at this stage of my career. Obviously I do want to play in finals and play in flags but at this stage it was more important for me to get back, be around my family and friends and to have a fresh start."

Jesse Hogan says making a move to Fremantle had been on his mind throughout the 2018 season

 

13 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

From what I have heard Hogan was happy to stay and it was the club that was keen to move him on. You can say he wanted to go home or he would have left after his contract but I think it is only the club and fans justifying the trade to feel better about it. I believe he had a taste of success and wanted it to continue.  I have not seen any statement from Hogan saying he wanted to go home at any time. It was the club that did the deal and it has wasted 5 years development. It probably will ultimately cost Goodwin his job because he does not have the players needed to have success. The MFC is crap at trading.

You're way off and Wrong

Fact