Through different eyes

[poita 3,902]

43 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Not even Carlton have been down so low as us in recent decades.   And you know that,  as you say it some times.

We are coming from way-further-back than any other club, including Freo;  oh and the Suns to a lesser degree.

I don't care what happened decades ago. I care that we made a preliminary final in 2018; have since added May, Lever, Langdon and Tomlinson; have a full list to pick from and are currently as bad as we have been at any stage in the past ten years.

How can this board, this coach and this playing group have taken us so far backwards in the space of less than two years?

[sue 9,145]

25 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

.....

 

Also, why edit out the rest of my post that put it into more context?

For the same reason I'm doing it here. I didn't think it was relevant to the point I was making.  I find it annoying when people quote a long screed just to comment on one point in it, often without even highlighting that point.  If I misrepresented you in some way I apologise. 

[Lord Travis 10,763]

I admire the supporters who can be so positively and hopefully, but I struggle with it. It's been over 55 years since we won a flag and after countless rebuilds we look as far away as ever. I struggle to be positive because reality gets in the way.

We were bottom four in 2019.

We are bottom four in 2020.

We are the worst team this century alongside Carlton (excluding expansion clubs).

We have big issues with game style. 

We have big issues with mental maturity.

We have big issues structurally.

 

We need to find a new game style that works for us. Our current game style does not work and structural issues with our playing list magnify this further. Our backline is ok, but the midfield and forward line both need to be overhauled.

We have too many see ball get ball inside mids and it's become a cycle of dominating clearances and inside 50s for no tangible advantage. We need to offload and re-balance the midfield. A good player in Viney or Brayshaw likely needs to go. Supporters won't be happy with that idea due to emotions, but the balance has been proven to be wrong. You need to give up quality to get quality. It's no good dominating inside 50s if they're rubbish quality entries and aren't to the advantage of our forwards. We need more rounded midfielders and less bull at the gate insiders.

Our forwards are all at sea. We lack quality tall targets and consistent goal kickers. Our highest goal kicker in 2019 was Petracca with 22 goals. That's an average of one a game from a player who is now a midfielder. That's abysmal. It's energy sapping to see players like Fritsch repeatedly miss set shots and be amongst the worst in the league for accuracy. Pickett aside, I don't think we have a single natural forward in our forward line. Yes the forward line received poor entries coming in from the midfield, but they also fail to convert the opportunities they do receive. Over the past 12 months, our inside 50 conversion to scores is the worst ever statistically recorded. Our game style is broken.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Lord Travis

[spalding 1,128]

It didn’t take too long before this thread got hijacked.

for those who think we are further away from success than we have ever been I feel sorry for you. Maybe take a bex and come back in a couple of years (as I duck for cover!).

yes 2018 was an aberration to an extent. I did show what was possible, but also showed our flaws - particular in the game vs west coast.

Lack of transition running seems to be in the process of being addressed (so far a small sample size but teams are struggling to score against us) with Tomlinson and Langdon. We look much better than we did in the preliminary final in 2018 with the mix of talls and smalls in the backline. 

loss of hogan and failure of weidemann to progress from 2018 form has been the killer. TMac also struggling with form, fitness and being one out also a problem. Jackson could be part of this solution. Kozzie looks a real danger. If Bennell can get fitter, then the forward line looks much better. 

i think the club realised we were further away from success in 2018 than the rest of us thought.

the bulldogs are very much the exception. The rest of the successful teams of the past 5+ years tend to have had to be building for a number of years before contending.

i would say that teams like Carlton and Gc are a long way behind us (yes I can see the ladder), and even a Brisbane will find the next step much harder than last years bounce. At least they do have a really strong home ground advantage which helps you get in finals (but maybe not win them - just ask Geelong).

[640MD 3,433]

17 hours ago, spalding said:

. The end of next year will be the time for change if things are not substantially better. 

Things need to get better this year. Full stop. 
changes maybe not this year, but if nothing gets better by then it will not be the end of next year to make changes!

i think good win needs help on game day to tweak positioning and tactics. Other coaches seem to outplay him in this aspect on the day. 
we seem to go with what was decided on Tuesday at training or at selection And make no alterations during the game.

i might be wrong but the impassive face in the coaches box does not do it for me. I would prefer some one who bangs the wall or desk every now and then, win or lose. Might make no difference apart from what I feel. 
but we are no better now than most of 2019.  Like witches hats at training some of the time. 
just my opinion, will not have any impact against Richmond,

[old dee 23,872]

40 minutes ago, poita said:

I don't care what happened decades ago. I care that we made a preliminary final in 2018; have since added May, Lever, Langdon and Tomlinson; have a full list to pick from and are currently as bad as we have been at any stage in the past ten years.

How can this board, this coach and this playing group have taken us so far backwards in the space of less than two years?

And over the same time frame the Lions have moved to a top four side. 

[drysdale demon 4,837]

18 hours ago, spalding said:

Very disappointed with the outcome, but sick of the carry-on on the other threads re how crap the team is, sack the coach etc etc.

i sense the frustration in the press conference that we are still struggling to put all the pieces together, but I think it’s close, and a bit more continuity and playing together will see us push us the ladder quickly. Just might not be this year.

can I just say that all of Clarkson, Hardwick, Hinkley and Buckley have been in the “sack the coach” club by supporters, the media, and ex players, presidents etc. none of us keyboard warriors really know enough about in the inner workings of 2020 AFL to know if anyone can coach.

However i thought today the backline looked pretty good. Before the game I actually thought that we were one tall short and was worried how we would cover Myers and Ablett at ground level, and who was quick enough for Rohan. Lockhart and Smith both made one or two errors but their versatility was a real plus today. Hibberd was better than he has been and I don’t get the hate for Lever. Thought he showed some glimpses that he might be getting back to form. Except for Ford’s mark, we didn’t get beaten in the air - but their goals were from hit up leads where there was not enough midfield pressure (unlike the tone we had for our I50 entries). All in all, I thought the backline was pretty good as a unit (given the number of AFL games that some have played and also together as a unit). 

midfield is a strength - despite Geelong  having a few all time greats, serviceable 200 gamers like Guthrie and Duncan, and Parfitt etc, we looked comfortable here.

our I50 remains the problem. Think we need another tall, and Bailey Fritsch to be third man up, not playing on athletes who are taller like Blicavs. That said I thought TMac competed much better this week, Hannan looked dangerous and Kozzie when he trusts himself more could be one the best small forwards in the comp - there is hope that things can change for the better pretty quickly.  Still need a lot of work in the entries, and in the end this was the difference.

not sure where Geelong stand, but they had a lot of experience and beat the hawks by 10 goals two weeks ago - so obviously they not complete crap.

i understand the frustration on this site, but  the lack of objectivity and negativity bordering on hatred annoys me.

cue the usual posts that I’m an apologist for the coach and club, got no idea, the reason why MFC have been crap for 50+ years etc, we are going to loose every game between today and when we deservedly go broke or get kicked out if the league etc etc 

Very good post, agree entirely

[old dee 23,872]

36 minutes ago, spalding said:

It didn’t take too long before this thread got hijacked.

for those who think we are further away from success than we have ever been I feel sorry for you. Maybe take a bex and come back in a couple of years (as I duck for cover!).

yes 2018 was an aberration to an extent. I did show what was possible, but also showed our flaws - particular in the game vs west coast.

Lack of transition running seems to be in the process of being addressed (so far a small sample size but teams are struggling to score against us) with Tomlinson and Langdon. We look much better than we did in the preliminary final in 2018 with the mix of talls and smalls in the backline. 

loss of hogan and failure of weidemann to progress from 2018 form has been the killer. TMac also struggling with form, fitness and being one out also a problem. Jackson could be part of this solution. Kozzie looks a real danger. If Bennell can get fitter, then the forward line looks much better. 

i think the club realised we were further away from success in 2018 than the rest of us thought.

the bulldogs are very much the exception. The rest of the successful teams of the past 5+ years tend to have had to be building for a number of years before contending.

i would say that teams like Carlton and Gc are a long way behind us (yes I can see the ladder), and even a Brisbane will find the next step much harder than last years bounce. At least they do have a really strong home ground advantage which helps you get in finals (but maybe not win them - just ask Geelong).

So how come we keep losing?

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

1 hour ago, poita said:

I don't care what happened decades ago. I care that we made a preliminary final in 2018; have since added May, Lever, Langdon and Tomlinson; have a full list to pick from and are currently as bad as we have been at any stage in the past ten years.

How can this board, this coach and this playing group have taken us so far backwards in the space of less than two years?

Its just form recovery now and the fact we are bringing in youth to replace  Jones,  Jetta, Hbbo, within the next 2 seasons, and Max Gawn who is 30Yrs of age in just 18 months time.

So around 3.5Yrs will be about the end for big Maxy.  And Maysy as well.  He might go an extra year.?

 

Its not Goody's fault these players are the age they are.  But he IS doing something about that predicament right now.   Or rather, the Footy Dep't are,  doing something about this right now.

 

It's not really Goody's decision.  It's the selectors job and decisions,  selecting these sides right now.  His job is to do what he can with the sides he's allowed.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 hour ago, sue said:

For the same reason I'm doing it here. I didn't think it was relevant to the point I was making.  I find it annoying when people quote a long screed just to comment on one point in it, often without even highlighting that point.  If I misrepresented you in some way I apologise. 

Just think it's important to keep contextual things in when quoting people, especially in this case when it was pretty relevant.

No apology needed though, wasn't upset more curious. Definitely agree when replying to some of the incredibly detailed posts here btw.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

1 hour ago, Lord Travis said:

We have big issues with game style. 

I don't agree 'LT'.

When we saw our ball movement in the 2nd Qtr,  it looked fantastic, and we hit targets.  Connecting up with the forwards.

Our mobility and some speed is crucial to this,  and as we get better with more skilled players added to our team, it will really show.

 

At the moment we have plenty of slowish players of so so disposal skill,  and this hinders our form, and our team confidence.

It is happening, in front of us,  but these kids need some time to click with the players around,  them and Vica-Verca.

 

You can tell by looking back at the type of players we've been selecting in the past couple of drafts.  We've started to select smaller players and more skilled types.

And we've traded into our list, more mature types who have certain skills to fill our weak spots. gut running.

 

So we've past the re-build stumps first part and are now recruiting finishers and polish.  These kids will take a couple of seasons to get some knowledge/experience of AFL level footy.  A couple of games here or there,  and a couple off.  A couple more again, and so on.

 

Everything is in place,  but whilst the team is being changed frequently, expect this inconsistency;  because those players of 2018,  are not the same players any longer.

 

Hogan struggling to get a game.

Watts, hmmn.

Jonesy is getting on as we all know.

AVB is just returning after being out all last year, and early this season, from a different injury altogether.

Hannan just getting back again, Via a chronic knee.

Sadly Petty, who I would have liked to see how he's playing,  has a serious groin.

Bennell has come over to us and is shaping well so far, because of Goody's chat to him. Same with others.

 

Stay the course mate.    Don't let that old MfcSS culture put you off.   Because this is the first time we've been on the right track since Northey's days.

.

[Sir Why You Little 37,151]

7 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

I don't agree 'LT'.

When we saw our ball movement in the 2nd Qtr,  it looked fantastic, and we hit targets.  Connecting up with the forwards.

Our mobility and some speed is crucial to this,  and as we get better with more skilled players added to our team, it will really show.

 

At the moment we have plenty of slowish players of so so disposal skill,  and this hinders our form, and our team confidence.

It is happening, in front of us,  but these kids need some time to click with the players around,  them and Vica-Verca.

 

You can tell by looking back at the type of players we've been selecting in the past couple of drafts.  We've started to select smaller players and more skilled types.

And we've traded into our list, more mature types who have certain skills to fill our weak spots. gut running.

 

So we've past the re-build stumps first part and are now recruiting finishers and polish.  These kids will take a couple of seasons to get some knowledge/experience of AFL level footy.  A couple of games here or there,  and a couple off.  A couple more again, and so on.

 

Everything is in place,  but whilst the team is being changed frequently, expect this inconsistency;  because those players of 2018,  are not the same players any longer.

 

Hogan struggling to get a game.

Watts, hmmn.

Jonesy is getting on as we all know.

AVB is just returning after being out all last year, and early this season, from a different injury altogether.

Hannan just getting back again, Via a chronic knee.

Sadly Petty, who I would have liked to see how he's playing,  has a serious groin.

Bennell has come over to us and is shaping well so far, because of Goody's chat to him. Same with others.

 

Stay the course mate.    Don't let that old MfcSS culture put you off.   Because this is the first time we've been on the right track since Northey's days.

.

This could have been written 7 years ago

word for word.....

The MFC needs to take The Big Jump, but it can’t do it....

As soon as PJ left we fell over in a heap...

[spalding 1,128]

1 hour ago, old dee said:

So how come we keep losing?

last year because of lack of fitness, inability to play a settler team and defensive transition.

i think those areas have improved this year. Do this year I think we are losing because;

we have played 7 first year or new player in the team (Jackson, Rivers, Kozzie, Bennell, Langdon, Tomlinson, Bedford).

Played others with minimal game experience - ie Lockhart, Smith

have others such as lever and May that have only played together about 10 times.

That’s why I think we will improve quite quickly 

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

4 minutes ago, spalding said:

last year because of lack of fitness, inability to play a settler team and defensive transition.

i think those areas have improved this year. Do this year I think we are losing because;

we have played 7 first year or new player in the team (Jackson, Rivers, Kozzie, Bennell, Langdon, Tomlinson, Bedford).

Played others with minimal game experience - ie Lockhart, Smith

have others such as lever and May that have only played together about 10 times.

That’s why I think we will improve quite quickly 

This is why I come to this site. Thanks @spalding...ps one of my middle names is Earl

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

19 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

When we saw our ball movement in the 2nd Qtr,  it looked fantastic, and we hit targets.  Connecting up with the forwards.

Our mobility and some speed is crucial to this,  and as we get better with more skilled players added to our team, it will really show.

We know we can do this. We did it against Carlton, for a while.

All the other clubs know we can do this. So they put their energy into working out how to stop us doing this.

When it works, like Carlton did in the second half ... like Geelong for most of that match .... like WCE for most of that match .... we have no answer. No answer! Our players run around chasing tail, looking slow and clumsy because that's what teams that are behind look like.

We seem to be blindsided by this astounding strategy of exploiting our lack of defensive pressure and our lack of foot skill, every week!

All clubs have tremendous talent on their list. All teams will look a million dollars against no opposition. There's just this snag about being effective when you have some opposition, especially opposition who know what they're doing and are playing specifically to nullify your strengths and exploit your weaknesses.

That's what's happening week in and week out, and if we could pick a team from Richmond's and WCE's players, within a month that team would look confused and inept, because our "game plan" is one dimensional and predictable.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

27 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

This could have been written 7 years ago

word for word.....

The MFC needs to take The Big Jump, but it can’t do it....

As soon as PJ left we fell over in a heap...

We haven't put a step wrong since Roosy and PJ were here, other than giving too much for Lever.   We over-payed, but we god a good player.

 

It's the what-ifs from the one draft pick that's in question, of what it could have been used for. maybe for another trade player brought in or a draftee/s.  That's all.

 

Other than that, we've done all that really could be done,  other than being further advanced with our home-base.

 

Rebuilding a team list is never a straight line graph on an incline...   because of attrition and inexperience, replacing experience.

Our current board,  and footy dept are quite stable,  and doing a strong job.

[old dee 23,872]

14 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

We know we can do this. We did it against Carlton, for a while.

All the other clubs know we can do this. So they put their energy into working out how to stop us doing this.

When it works, like Carlton did in the second half ... like Geelong for most of that match .... like WCE for most of that match .... we have no answer. No answer! Our players run around chasing tail, looking slow and clumsy because that's what teams that are behind look like.

We seem to be blindsided by this astounding strategy of exploiting our lack of defensive pressure and our lack of foot skill, every week!

All clubs have tremendous talent on their list. All teams will look a million dollars against no opposition. There's just this snag about being effective when you have some opposition, especially opposition who know what they're doing and are playing specifically to nullify your strengths and exploit your weaknesses.

That's what's happening week in and week out, and if we could pick a team from Richmond's and WCE's players, within a month that team would look confused and inept, because our "game plan" is one dimensional and predictable.

Stop talking sense MR.

[old dee 23,872]

7 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

We haven't put a step wrong since Roosy and PJ were here, other than giving too much for Lever.   We over-payed, but we god a good player.

 

It's the what-ifs from the one draft pick that's in question, of what it could have been used for. maybe for another trade player brought in or a draftee/s.  That's all.

 

Other than that, we've done all that really could be done,  other than being further advanced with our home-base.

 

Rebuilding a team list is never a straight line graph on an incline...   because of attrition and inexperience, replacing experience.

Our current board,  and footy dept are quite stable,  and doing a strong job.

Sadly we still don't win games.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

8 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

We know we can do this. We did it against Carlton, for a while.

All the other clubs know we can do this. So they put their energy into working out how to stop us doing this.

When it works, like Carlton did in the second half ... like Geelong for most of that match .... like WCE for most of that match .... we have no answer. No answer! Our players run around chasing tail, looking slow and clumsy because that's what teams that are behind look like.

We seem to be blindsided by this astounding strategy of exploiting our lack of defensive pressure and our lack of foot skill, every week!

All clubs have tremendous talent on their list. All teams will look a million dollars against no opposition. There's just this snag about being effective when you have some opposition, especially opposition who know what they're doing and are playing specifically to nullify your strengths and exploit your weaknesses.

That's what's happening week in and week out, and if we could pick a team from Richmond's and WCE's players, within a month that team would look confused and inept, because our "game plan" is one dimensional and predictable.

Against Carlton we switched off.  A Melbourne trait.   But we managed fortunately to switch back on again,  just in time to stop them.  And we did stop them.   We didn''t panic, we just stopped them.

 

Against the Cats they caught us off balance at the start,  they apparently anticipated what we were doing,  and caught us pants down,  and scored against us early.  Max was asleep a couple of times.

We reeled them in but ran out of time.

 

Remember. we were all set to be an endurance team.   And ten CoVid hit and the games were shut down,  as was training.  And then the AFL in their wisdom shortened the Qtr's.

The shorter Qtrs suits quick running teams with youth.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

1 minute ago, old dee said:

Sadly we still don't win games.

Sadly our ambition is to develop the kids and team. Ahead of just winning.

We could be playing all our experienced players and playing better,  but for nil development.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

4 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Against Carlton we switched off.  A Melbourne trait.   But we managed fortunately to switch back on again,  just in time to stop them.  And we did stop them.   We didn''t panic, we just stopped them.

 

Against the Cats they caught us off balance at the start,  they apparently anticipated what we were doing,  and caught us pants down,  and scored against us early.  Max was asleep a couple of times.

We reeled them in but ran out of time.

 

Remember. we were all set to be an endurance team.   And ten CoVid hit and the games were shut down,  as was training.  And then the AFL in their wisdom shortened the Qtr's.

The shorter Qtrs suits quick running teams with youth.

Sorry but that is rubbish. All teams were set to play the ful 120 minutes-what you call endurance. Now all teams have to make an adjjustment of 4 minutes per game.  We have as young a side as anyone and if we are not quick whos fault is that?

[Sir Why You Little 37,151]

12 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

We haven't put a step wrong since Roosy and PJ were here, other than giving too much for Lever.   We over-payed, but we god a good player.

 

It's the what-ifs from the one draft pick that's in question, of what it could have been used for. maybe for another trade player brought in or a draftee/s.  That's all.

 

Other than that, we've done all that really could be done,  other than being further advanced with our home-base.

 

Rebuilding a team list is never a straight line graph on an incline...   because of attrition and inexperience, replacing experience.

Our current board,  and footy dept are quite stable,  and doing a strong job.

This is only in your mind

It’s not really happening, The Club has “Frozen” since Perth September 2018

We were totally pulled apart. 
i find it amazing more Supporters/Members do not see it for what it is. 
 

We need an experienced Hard Coach for 10 years

Rookie Coaches just don’t have the credentials for this Club

[Optimus D 283]

As I press the pedal to the floor I look out the window and see Richmond pass me by. I think, "Gee I thought we had a better car than them, I wonder who's driving".

As I round the next bend and press the pedal to the floor I look out the window and see Brisbane pass me by. I think, "Gee I thought we had a better car than them, I wonder who's driving".

A bit further down the track I try and press the pedal through the floor I look out the window and see Gold Coast pass me by. I think, "Gee I thought we had a better car than them, I wonder who's driving".

I look in the rear view mirror and see Carlton behind me and think, "Surely I've got a better car and I'm a better driver".

God help me.

 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

1 minute ago, Half forward flank said:

Sorry but that is rubbish. All teams were set to play the ful 120 minutes-what you call endurance. Now all teams have to make an adjjustment of 4 minutes per game.  We have as young a side as anyone and if we are not quick whos fault is that?

Hah,  you got no idea, have you.

We just recruited 2 gut runners, plus a tall forward hard runner, as well as working beautifully with our new fitness/conditioning manager.  Set to be one of the better hard running sides.

 

Shorter Qtr's suit power players and quick players,  who often struggle for endurance and run out of gas during longer Qtr's.  Our advantage we setup for, has withered away this year;  and brought other young teams up a notch.

[spalding 1,128]

2 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

This is only in your mind

It’s not really happening, The Club has “Frozen” since Perth September 2018

We were totally pulled apart. 
i find it amazing more Supporters/Members do not see it for what it is. 
 

We need an experienced Hard Coach for 10 years

Rookie Coaches just don’t have the credentials for this Club

It’s in my mind too.

yes we were pulled apart in Perth (see earlier post) - since that point we have gone backwards because I think we realised how far away we were and the problems that needed to be fixed.

it was never going to happen in an instant - as we need to improve the list.

i think this is happening.

obviously you don’t.