Yes, of course.  Stop being pedantic dc, that's my job!

On 6/14/2020 at 8:53 PM, Macca said:

There's a few things in favour of Goodwin being retained until at least the end of 2021

The biggie is the financial aspect ... as others here have pointed out paying Goodwin out is an added expense we simply can't afford.  Let's not forget that we posted up a loss of $1.5Million in 2019 despite still receiving the Pokies & NT money.

And we are going to be front and centre with our hand out to the AFL to help try and balance the books this year & next.

I reckon we'll win enough games this year to keep his head above water too.  7 or 8 wins will suffice in a 17 round season.  Now,  that's not my ambition for the club more so what I reckon will probably happen.

And we did win 2 finals in 2018 so there's that.  The players are more at fault in my opinion ... self satisfied and we switch off when we shouldn't (all too often) 

We've got too many on our list who just aren't up to it.  We're a decent side on paper only.  The same blokes who can play well go missing way too much ... the 2nd half against Carlton was your perfect example

Goodwin may not be a great coach but he's not nearly as incompetent as many here make out. 

We could change the coach but I'm not sure the results would change that much.

Financial aspects don't equate to Flags Macca

I do not think Goody is incompetent, but nor do I think he is innovative or progressive

As mentioned elsewhere we seem not to be able to have "Footy IQ" Whether it be Admin, Staff or Players,

At various times we have had elements of each , but NEVER enough to challenge for a Premiership!

Need I remind you its been 56 years since a premiership.

To say its not the Coach... Well u gotta have right Admin at right time and right players and the right coach, who knows how to position players in the best winning positions AND select right players for opposition!! Not sure we actually do this as well as other teams!!

Kinda like a "Sliding Doors" moment! Right Team, Right Matchups, Right tactics!

To cut to the chase, we will win a few, Loose a Few, BUT, we ain't anywhere near it this year and the long agony continues That's My Take!

Edited June 16, 20204 yr by picket fence

17 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Financial aspects don't equate to Flags Macca

I do not think Goody is incompetent, but nor do I think he is innovative or progressive

As mentioned elsewhere we seem not to be able to have "Footy IQ" Whether it be Admin, Staff or Players,

At various times we have had elements of each , but NEVER enough to challenge for a Premiership!

Need I remind you its been 56 years since a premiership.

To say its not the Coach... Well u gotta have right Admin at right time and right players and the right coach, who knows how to position players in the best winning positions AND select right players for opposition!! Not sure we actually do this as well as other teams!!

Kinda like a "Sliding Doors" moment! Right Team, Right Matchups, Right tactics!

To cut to the chase, we will win a few, Loose a Few, BUT, we ain't anywhere near it this year and the long agony continues That's My Take!

We need to look further than the coach ... and previously,  its often where I have looked (first)

But not this time.

We have deep cultural issues and the A-end of the problem is the output of the players.  So does the fish rot at the head PF?

I believe so but not every time. 

Were Skilton & Ditterich poor coaches?  Record says maybe but neither coach had the cattle

Either did Barassi who lost 21 games in his first year nor Roos who lost 18 games in his first year.

Have we had the same type of Board for all these past decades?  Do we need to look at the Board,  Jackson,  Pert & Mahoney as well?

I say yes.  Let them sort it out for once.

So we've got a problem at the top and a problem with the output of our experienced players (who go missing when the heat is applied)

Cause and effect

That's My Take!

 

1 minute ago, Macca said:

We need to look further than the coach ... and previously,  its often where I have looked (first)

But not this time.

We have deep cultural issues and the A-end of the problem is the output of the players.  So does the fish rot at the head PF?

I believe so but not every time. 

Were Skilton & Ditterich poor coaches?  Record says maybe but neither coach had the cattle

Either did Barassi who lost 21 games in his first year nor Roos who lost 18 games in his first year.

Have we had the same type of Board for all these past decades?  Do we need to look at the Board,  Jackson,  Pert & Mahoney as well?

I say yes.  Let them sort it out for once.

So we've got a problem at the top and a problem with the output of our experienced players (who go missing when the heat is applied)

Cause and effect

That's My Take!

 

You make some good points Macca . But I'm stuffed and need to retire for the evening! Will answer in next few days!

Keep the passion Friend!

Fence!

On 6/15/2020 at 1:47 PM, drysdale demon said:

Buckley is in his 9th year as coach and has survived seasons where supporters and media have called for his sacking, Clarkson coached a premiership side in his 5th year and during his early years there were calls from supporters to get rid of him, Hardwicke coached Tigers to a flag in his 8th year as coach after quite a few years of the media suggesting should go and constant calls for his sacking from supporters.

The point is each club had boards who were prepared to back their coaches and dismiss outside noise.

Ratten 128 games

Hinkley 162 games

Cameron 145 games

Terry Wallace 247 games

Gary Ayres 223 games

Neale Daniher 223 games

Brad Scott 211 Games

Neil Craig 177 games

Dean Laidley 149 games

Ken Judge 133 games

Robert Shaw 130 games

Chris Connolly 130 games

Voss 109 games

Schwab 109 games

Frawley 113 games

 

No flags among them whats your point? That we just continue to give Goodwin games?

6 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Ratten 128 games

Hinkley 162 games

Cameron 145 games

Terry Wallace 247 games

Gary Ayres 223 games

Neale Daniher 223 games

Brad Scott 211 Games

Neil Craig 177 games

Dean Laidley 149 games

Ken Judge 133 games

Robert Shaw 130 games

Chris Connolly 130 games

Voss 109 games

Schwab 109 games

Frawley 113 games

 

No flags among them whats your point? That we just continue to give Goodwin games?

What makes you so certain another coach would do better with this group?

 

15 minutes ago, picket fence said:

You make some good points Macca . But I'm stuffed and need to retire for the evening! Will answer in next few days!

Keep the passion Friend!

Fence!

As for our collective leadership on the field,  where is it?

Of the experienced players who set foot on the ground last Saturday,  how many came close to playing at their best?

Gawn - yes,  Petracca - yes

All others,  no. 

Oliver is below his best (as he was last year despite winning the B & F)  He's got the ability to be pure A grade and should be dominating.

Jones,  Salem,  May,  Lever,  Jetta,  T-Mac,  Brayshaw,  Fritsch,  Harmes,  Langdon,  Melksham,  Tomlinson & Viney can all play much better than their current output.  And none of them are rookies who lack experience.

So why is that? 

Whatever the answer is,  it can't just be the coach.  Goodwin may not be a great coach but last year's pitiful performance was on the players IMO.

We beat Essendon and things might improve but I'm not holding my breath.

11 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Ratten 128 games

Hinkley 162 games

Cameron 145 games

Terry Wallace 247 games

Gary Ayres 223 games

Neale Daniher 223 games

Brad Scott 211 Games

Neil Craig 177 games

Dean Laidley 149 games

Ken Judge 133 games

Robert Shaw 130 games

Chris Connolly 130 games

Voss 109 games

Schwab 109 games

Frawley 113 games

 

No flags among them whats your point? That we just continue to give Goodwin games?

The point is sacking coaches doesn't solve the problem. Good clubs work with the coach to obtain better results.

3 hours ago, drysdale demon said:

The point is sacking coaches doesn't solve the problem. Good clubs work with the coach to obtain better results.

An interesting comparison would be to see how many games a coach coached before they won a premiership.

The other thing is that while we are obviously in the game to win a flag, we can't win them if we are regularly missing the finals.  This is where the Buckley situation at Collingwood is a good case study - he has coached 184 games, but hasn't won a flag.  But one thing his side has done of recent years is maintained their spot in the upper echelon of teams playing at the moment.  If he doesn't win a flag in the next 2-3 years, at what point will Collingwood move him on?  And will that mean he has been a failure?

Chris Scott is probably an even better example.  If you take out his first season where he was gifted a flag, he's coached around the same amount of games as Buckley without a premiership.  Most Geelong supporters I know will say that he has underachieved in his time.  Part of me would love it if Goody underachieved to the same degree as Scott.

On 6/14/2020 at 11:30 PM, Satyriconhome said:

Good topic, Hawthorn seemed to have a Plan B against Geelong, I know, it was fall in a heap

Must be wrong strategy   

 

Yeah I would hate to have Clarkson as coach of the dees. 

He’s only a FOUR time premiership coach but hey he doesn’t have a plan B so nah let’s move on. ?

On 6/15/2020 at 6:05 AM, Demon Disciple said:

If you factor in who our Defensive coach is, i think you'll find your answer. He's just as much of the problem as SG.

He's terrible, needs to get out right away.

On 6/16/2020 at 11:33 AM, Macca said:

We need to look further than the coach ... and previously,  its often where I have looked (first)

But not this time.

We have deep cultural issues and the A-end of the problem is the output of the players.  So does the fish rot at the head PF?

I believe so but not every time. 

Were Skilton & Ditterich poor coaches?  Record says maybe but neither coach had the cattle

Either did Barassi who lost 21 games in his first year nor Roos who lost 18 games in his first year.

Have we had the same type of Board for all these past decades?  Do we need to look at the Board,  Jackson,  Pert & Mahoney as well?

I say yes.  Let them sort it out for once.

So we've got a problem at the top and a problem with the output of our experienced players (who go missing when the heat is applied)

Cause and effect

That's My Take!

 

Well done sir

On 6/14/2020 at 5:26 AM, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

There's no way we can pay out two years of a coach's contract and hire a new one, all whilst holding a hand out to the AFL for funds to keep the club running at its most basic level.  The AFL would be negligent if they allowed us to do that.  We will not attract 1.5 million dollars worth of additional members if Goodwin is sacked.

(we're also 1 win, 1 loss, two rounds into a new season.) 

And why the hell would we? We're a basket case of a club for god's sake.

38 minutes ago, Stein9193 said:

And why the hell would we? We're a basket case of a club for god's sake.

I think demonland has been infected by a virus. 

On 6/13/2020 at 2:58 PM, DaisyDeeciple said:

Are people just jumping on a band wagon out of frustration, or is there some sort of covert campaign on his behalf? I see more people name checking him in various posts and am curious.

I know nothing of Yze as a coach, it seems a pretty big call based on not a lot of evidence.

That Yze was a top flight player is not in doubt, although I remember him going missing more than once as a player.

I look at Richmond and Collingwood who stuck fat with their coaches when everyone was losing, I'm not ready to bin Goodwhen yet and think it would be a backwards step, we're not losing players,  I like our recruiting and our style was forced to change alot with 6/6/6. Yes I would like to see the magnets move a bit more. I actually thought the team changes for this round were fair considering those tossed were all guilty of bombing it.

So anyway can one of his boosters please explain why Yze is some sort of messiah, or it Bruce or maybe Robertson?

Just sour grapes from a few who will not give Goodwin more time.  He is a good coach and needs supporting.

On 6/16/2020 at 9:33 PM, Macca said:

We need to look further than the coach ... and previously,  its often where I have looked (first)

But not this time.

We have deep cultural issues and the A-end of the problem is the output of the players.  So does the fish rot at the head PF?

I believe so but not every time. 

Were Skilton & Ditterich poor coaches?  Record says maybe but neither coach had the cattle

Either did Barassi who lost 21 games in his first year nor Roos who lost 18 games in his first year.

Have we had the same type of Board for all these past decades? 

Do we need to look at the Board,  Jackson,  Pert & Mahoney as well?

I say yes.  Let them sort it out for once.

So we've got a problem at the top and a problem with the output of our experienced players (who go missing when the heat is applied)

Cause and effect

That's My Take!

 

It's where the Board meets... that attracts mainly Business types like Bogong Moths.   No aspersions on current board, as their time is young.

 

We attract too many of the wrong type people sitting on our decision making processes.  Because many just like the idea of having a purpose within the hallowed walls of the Mcg/Mcc. The wrong ingredient/desire to help this cub.    

We don't get enough footy smart people who control our destiny.   And yes we do need good business types as directors, but they need to be there only for the club,  and not to hobnob.

 

All other clubs boards meet well away from the Mcg and most have prospered,  or at least won a Flag;  or have been competing in Finals Series strongly in past decades.

 

We need to get our HQ and admins out & away from the Mcg.  Let the club form its own identity away from the 'G',  and it will grow.

We are still the home team of the Mcg,  but maybe not the foremost home team now,  because of our failings from the top down.

 

We cannot grow whilst still being tied by umbilical chords.  Its like the parents are still dressing us,  and making our decisions for us.  

InDEEPendence...!

1 hour ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

It's where the Board meets... that attracts mainly Business types like Bogong Moths.   No aspersions on current board, as their time is young.

 

We attract too many of the wrong type people sitting on our decision making processes.  Because many just like the idea of having a purpose within the hallowed walls of the Mcg/Mcc. The wrong ingredient/desire to help this cub.    

We don't get enough footy smart people who control our destiny.   And yes we do need good business types as directors, but they need to be there only for the club,  and not to hobnob.

 

All other clubs boards meet well away from the Mcg and most have prospered,  or at least won a Flag;  or have been competing in Finals Series strongly in past decades.

 

We need to get our HQ and admins out & away from the Mcg.  Let the club form its own identity away from the 'G',  and it will grow.

We are still the home team of the Mcg,  but maybe not the foremost home team now,  because of our failings from the top down.

 

We cannot grow whilst still being tied by umbilical chords.  Its like the parents are still dressing us,  and making our decisions for us.  

InDEEPendence...!

At AFL level you'll often get the same 7 or 8 Board members with 1 or 2 standing down every now and again often being replaced with like-minded types.  Thus,  not much ever seems to change.  Sound familiar?

Unless a coup happens or if a Board stands aside.  But a new group may not be all that different to the old group.  Could easily be more of the same,  or worse

And it doesn't matter where it's all based or where the meetings are held. 

The key is whether the Board is competent or not.  It's all about the personnel.

As an example,  if you think of the Collingwood board,  you think of Eddie.  He rules the roost but he does a great job (IMO)

Edited June 21, 20204 yr by Macca

10 hours ago, Ohio USA - David said:

Just sour grapes from a few who will not give Goodwin more time.  He is a good coach and needs supporting.

To be clear: the push last year to bring Yze back to Melbourne was as an assistant coach. It wasn't about replacing Goodwin. Of course it might have put him in the box seat in a few years' time but that was not the point as I understand it. I still think Goodwin warrants a clear run at it with a healthy list.

On 6/16/2020 at 11:35 AM, Dee Dee said:

He did apply for the Adelaide job as well last year which probably means he’s keen to get the top job somewhere at some time!

We should re-enter the discussions for his acquisition, if he is keen to '...get the top job somewhere...' as he is not forgotten by members and supporters, and has learned a great deal more at a very good school for footy, in Hawthorn. He is a cool cat, levelled-headed, capable of decision-making and in this regard, experienced quality. There cannot be many doubts of his credentials nor his footballing wisdom and skills understanding. An ideal, tough decision-making coach, I'd say.  Like his own game as a player, there would be some mighty effective tricks up his sleeve for the Club to move forward.

14 hours ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

It's where the Board meets... that attracts mainly Business types like Bogong Moths.   No aspersions on current board, as their time is young.

 

We attract too many of the wrong type people sitting on our decision making processes.  Because many just like the idea of having a purpose within the hallowed walls of the Mcg/Mcc. The wrong ingredient/desire to help this cub.    

We don't get enough footy smart people who control our destiny.   And yes we do need good business types as directors, but they need to be there only for the club,  and not to hobnob.

 

All other clubs boards meet well away from the Mcg and most have prospered,  or at least won a Flag;  or have been competing in Finals Series strongly in past decades.

 

We need to get our HQ and admins out & away from the Mcg.  Let the club form its own identity away from the 'G',  and it will grow.

We are still the home team of the Mcg,  but maybe not the foremost home team now,  because of our failings from the top down.

 

We cannot grow whilst still being tied by umbilical chords.  Its like the parents are still dressing us,  and making our decisions for us.  

InDEEPendence...!

Absolute stupid comments that only inflame a sound Board, a sound Club and Coaching group at present.  How about looking at the facts such as the reason for the terrible year last year.. ( due entirely to a massive amount of required operations  post 2018 season which is to some extent beyond the Coaches or the Clubs control) . Look at the fact that they brought in Darren Burgess as a high profile Trainer and not to forget the fact that this season is an upset unplanned year due to Covid.  How about supporting our Club as it stands and not place yourself above people who are in the know. Your comments are disgusting and frankly do more harm than good.

Yes....great idea

I went to an Adelaide forum to get my comedy fix after they got flogged by Gold Coast,  and a couple of posters mentioned bringing in Yze as next Crows coach.

On 6/16/2020 at 9:55 PM, Unleash Hell said:

What makes you so certain another coach would do better with this group?

 

An interesting aside to this thread is that I think the story was that Roos wanted Dew as his successor but the swans, rightly, held him to his contract. Goodwin wins the gig.

Its a long bow but there's a bit of love for Dew as a coach after recent Suns success and will be worth watching this story unfold.

What might have been sliding door possibly?

9 hours ago, Ohio USA - David said:

Absolute stupid comments that only inflame a sound Board, a sound Club and Coaching group at present.  How about looking at the facts such as the reason for the terrible year last year.. ( due entirely to a massive amount of required operations  post 2018 season which is to some extent beyond the Coaches or the Clubs control) . Look at the fact that they brought in Darren Burgess as a high profile Trainer and not to forget the fact that this season is an upset unplanned year due to Covid.  How about supporting our Club as it stands and not place yourself above people who are in the know. Your comments are disgusting and frankly do more harm than good.

 

9 hours ago, Ohio USA - David said:

It's where the Board meets... that attracts mainly Business types like Bogong Moths.   No aspersions on current board, as their time is young.

If you would focus instead of allowing your emotions to lead you up the wrong pathway.   You may have noticed the highlighted above.

The comments posted are about our past 50 years of Mfc boards,  'OhUSA'.

8 hours ago, Demon17 said:

An interesting aside to this thread is that I think the story was that Roos wanted Dew as his successor but the swans, rightly, held him to his contract. Goodwin wins the gig.

Its a long bow but there's a bit of love for Dew as a coach after recent Suns success and will be worth watching this story unfold.

What might have been sliding door possibly?

A very interesting point.

It is a very difficult process to compare one coach to another, hence my question earlier to @jnrmac, how do you compare coaches and come to the conclusion that one is better than another?

There are a lot of factors that go in to a successful team.

It will be interesting to watch and compare.

But another question - Roos wanted Dew, I 100% agree, but what if Dew wanted to rebuild and start from scratch like hes done with the Suns, would MFC swallow a rebuild?