On 10/01/2026 at 19:21, Redleg said:

Direct opposite info I have received from all three organisations either currently there, or hoping to be there.

So why no announcement?? Who is waiting for who to blink first or has everyone got the blinkers on??

Edited Sunday at 20:492 days by picket fence

46 minutes ago, picket fence said:

So why no announcement??

Probably because there is not full agreement on everything that is involved in getting the project approved and completed.

15 hours ago, Harvey Wallbanger said:

My information is that yes, the CRRT and the Club want the project to proceed. To the extent that they are involved I understand that the MRC is erecting roadblocks wherever they can. They have never wanted us, nor anyone else for that manner (e.g. the local community) on that site. This position has not been helped by the continuing changes to the MRC Committee and management. My own view is that a political conclusion will only occur when the Premier decides to knock some heads together, i.e. the heads being (1) the MRC and the Racing Industry and (2) the AFL and the Sports industry. Hopefully we come out the winner in that battle.

I fail to see how the Melbourne Racing Club has a dog in the race ( excuse the pun ). Surely they will be just a co- tenant and any problems that arise would be heard by the management (MRC, MFC, Mt Scopus, GOVT Steering Committee).

18 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Probably because there is not full agreement on everything that is involved in getting the project approved and completed.

I think that's right.

The business case (all going well) was only scheduled to be completed sometime in the second half of 2025.

At the AGM, the president gave an unambiguous statement that we are "closer than ever"

If you look at the chronology of recent events, I don't think there are grounds to get too pessimistic.

The MFC financial year ends 31 October. If there is no concrete agreement among all parties by then, the annual accounts can't say anything of substance. The accounts were then signed off by Brad Green and the auditors on the 21st of November.

That ties the new President's hands in terms of what he can say come the AGM on the 16th December.

It's frustrating, but let's not jump at shadows.

On 10/01/2026 at 16:47, PartyTimeJohnny said:

completely unhelpful post- but I saw a movie at lido last night parked at Glenferrie Oval , it's so run down and unloved. All the players live over there, it's prime location, there's plenty of space. Would make so much sense to reinvigorate it with the council and make it our long term home.

PTJ It's a postage stamp why do you think the Hawks went to Waverley! The facilities are 1950's level. It's not the answer.

2 hours ago, Cyclops said:

I fail to see how the Melbourne Racing Club has a dog in the race ( excuse the pun ). Surely they will be just a co- tenant and any problems that arise would be heard by the management (MRC, MFC, Mt Scopus, GOVT Steering Committee).

Well if the track has to be dug up to build a tunnel then the MRC may have something to say about that.

Edited Monday at 00:532 days by Fritta and Turner
gramma

3 hours ago, Cyclops said:

I fail to see how the Melbourne Racing Club has a dog in the race ( excuse the pun ). Surely they will be just a co- tenant and any problems that arise would be heard by the management (MRC, MFC, Mt Scopus, GOVT Steering Committee).

The Racing Industry has its own strengths and lobbyists. As the main existing co-tenant the MRC has a say in lots of ancillary matters - i.e. where does the MRC house its equipment with both us and the school coming in. Where and when does a tunnel get built? I understand that a lot of the school's issues (with the MRC) were being addressed before Christmas which may have slowed down our progress. Given the school has an important option agreement with the MRC, the MRC approach to them is quite different....I am still hopeful that the project will proceed but it will take some political will - how strong are we in that area?

3 hours ago, Blind_turn said:

I think that's right.

The business case (all going well) was only scheduled to be completed sometime in the second half of 2025.

At the AGM, the president gave an unambiguous statement that we are "closer than ever"

If you look at the chronology of recent events, I don't think there are grounds to get too pessimistic.

The MFC financial year ends 31 October. If there is no concrete agreement among all parties by then, the annual accounts can't say anything of substance. The accounts were then signed off by Brad Green and the auditors on the 21st of November.

That ties the new President's hands in terms of what he can say come the AGM on the 16th December.

It's frustrating, but let's not jump at shadows.

I don't think signing off on the accounts on 21 November stops a President (new or old) updating the members on 16 December if indeed there had been any meaningful developments. The only addiitional contribution at the AGM was that our VP in charge "was learning a lot about politics". See my earlier post - it's all about politics, and departmental decision-making now.

Being "closer than we have ever been" is a clever line, but if you have never been very close (maybe the prospect of building over Jolimont station around 2019/20?), what does it really mean?

1 hour ago, Fritta and Turner said:

Well if the track has to be dug up to build a tunnel then the MRC may have something to say about that.

A tunnel from our facilities to the ovals, inside the 28m wide track, can be dug without interfering with the racetrack.

I am sure the tunnel could be done at a time when the track is not used during Caulfield downtime and they also own Sandown and Mornington racetracks as well.

Yes, it is possible to dig a tunnel under a 28m wide racetrack without disturbing the top track layer using trenchless construction methods. These specialized engineering techniques are designed to minimize surface disruption, making them ideal for tunneling beneath active infrastructure like roads, railways, and racetracks. 

Methods for Non-Disruptive Tunneling

The primary methods used for this type of application are:

• Microtunneling This is a remotely controlled, steerable system where a small-diameter boring machine (MTBM) excavates the tunnel. As the machine advances, pre-fabricated pipes are simultaneously jacked into the ground behind it, providing immediate structural support and ensuring ground stability. This method is highly accurate and minimizes ground settlement, which is crucial for sensitive surface structures.

• Pipe Jacking Similar to microtunneling, this method involves pushing pre-fabricated pipes or box sections through the ground using powerful hydraulic jacks from a drive shaft. It is commonly used for installing utilities or pedestrian subways under existing infrastructure without interrupting surface traffic.

• Tunnel Boring Machines (TBMs) For larger tunnels (such as a full vehicle underpass), a TBM could be used. Modern TBMs with positive face pressure control (like Earth Pressure Balance or Slurry Shield) are specifically designed to operate in urban environments and soft ground conditions while maintaining soil pressure to prevent surface subsidence. 

Key Considerations for Success

• Geotechnical Investigation Before construction begins, a thorough site investigation of the ground and soil conditions (including groundwater levels) is essential to select the appropriate method and machine. Unexpected ground conditions are a main cause of failure in trenchless projects.

• Minimum Depth of Cover The tunnel must be installed at a sufficient depth below the track to ensure the stability of the surface. A qualified tunnelling engineer would determine the precise minimum depth required based on the soil type and tunnel size.

• Monitoring The process involves continuous and sensitive monitoring of the ground and the track surface to detect any minute movements and make real-time adjustments to the jacking pressure or excavation rate.

• Logistics The construction will require entry and exit shafts (jacking and reception pits) at either end of the proposed tunnel path, located away from the racetrack itself. 

By employing these advanced engineering techniques, the structural integrity and operational functionality of the racetrack can be maintained during the tunneling process.

Edited Monday at 01:552 days by Redleg

59 minutes ago, Redleg said:

A tunnel from our facilities to the ovals, inside the 28m wide track, can be dug without interfering with the racetrack.

I am sure the tunnel could be done at a time when the track is not used during Caulfield downtime and they also own Sandown and Mornington racetracks as well.

Yes, it is possible to dig a tunnel under a 28m wide racetrack without disturbing the top track layer using trenchless construction methods. These specialized engineering techniques are designed to minimize surface disruption, making them ideal for tunneling beneath active infrastructure like roads, railways, and racetracks. 

Methods for Non-Disruptive Tunneling

The primary methods used for this type of application are:

• Microtunneling This is a remotely controlled, steerable system where a small-diameter boring machine (MTBM) excavates the tunnel. As the machine advances, pre-fabricated pipes are simultaneously jacked into the ground behind it, providing immediate structural support and ensuring ground stability. This method is highly accurate and minimizes ground settlement, which is crucial for sensitive surface structures.

• Pipe Jacking Similar to microtunneling, this method involves pushing pre-fabricated pipes or box sections through the ground using powerful hydraulic jacks from a drive shaft. It is commonly used for installing utilities or pedestrian subways under existing infrastructure without interrupting surface traffic.

• Tunnel Boring Machines (TBMs) For larger tunnels (such as a full vehicle underpass), a TBM could be used. Modern TBMs with positive face pressure control (like Earth Pressure Balance or Slurry Shield) are specifically designed to operate in urban environments and soft ground conditions while maintaining soil pressure to prevent surface subsidence. 

Key Considerations for Success

• Geotechnical Investigation Before construction begins, a thorough site investigation of the ground and soil conditions (including groundwater levels) is essential to select the appropriate method and machine. Unexpected ground conditions are a main cause of failure in trenchless projects.

• Minimum Depth of Cover The tunnel must be installed at a sufficient depth below the track to ensure the stability of the surface. A qualified tunnelling engineer would determine the precise minimum depth required based on the soil type and tunnel size.

• Monitoring The process involves continuous and sensitive monitoring of the ground and the track surface to detect any minute movements and make real-time adjustments to the jacking pressure or excavation rate.

• Logistics The construction will require entry and exit shafts (jacking and reception pits) at either end of the proposed tunnel path, located away from the racetrack itself. 

By employing these advanced engineering techniques, the structural integrity and operational functionality of the racetrack can be maintained during the tunneling process.

Puts a completely different perspective on tunneling. Still a free kick to the MRC?

3 hours ago, Redleg said:

A tunnel from our facilities to the ovals, inside the 28m wide track, can be dug without interfering with the racetrack.

I am sure the tunnel could be done at a time when the track is not used during Caulfield downtime and they also own Sandown and Mornington racetracks as well.

Yes, it is possible to dig a tunnel under a 28m wide racetrack without disturbing the top track layer using trenchless construction methods. These specialized engineering techniques are designed to minimize surface disruption, making them ideal for tunneling beneath active infrastructure like roads, railways, and racetracks. 

Methods for Non-Disruptive Tunneling

The primary methods used for this type of application are:

• Microtunneling This is a remotely controlled, steerable system where a small-diameter boring machine (MTBM) excavates the tunnel. As the machine advances, pre-fabricated pipes are simultaneously jacked into the ground behind it, providing immediate structural support and ensuring ground stability. This method is highly accurate and minimizes ground settlement, which is crucial for sensitive surface structures.

• Pipe Jacking Similar to microtunneling, this method involves pushing pre-fabricated pipes or box sections through the ground using powerful hydraulic jacks from a drive shaft. It is commonly used for installing utilities or pedestrian subways under existing infrastructure without interrupting surface traffic.

• Tunnel Boring Machines (TBMs) For larger tunnels (such as a full vehicle underpass), a TBM could be used. Modern TBMs with positive face pressure control (like Earth Pressure Balance or Slurry Shield) are specifically designed to operate in urban environments and soft ground conditions while maintaining soil pressure to prevent surface subsidence. 

Key Considerations for Success

• Geotechnical Investigation Before construction begins, a thorough site investigation of the ground and soil conditions (including groundwater levels) is essential to select the appropriate method and machine. Unexpected ground conditions are a main cause of failure in trenchless projects.

• Minimum Depth of Cover The tunnel must be installed at a sufficient depth below the track to ensure the stability of the surface. A qualified tunnelling engineer would determine the precise minimum depth required based on the soil type and tunnel size.

• Monitoring The process involves continuous and sensitive monitoring of the ground and the track surface to detect any minute movements and make real-time adjustments to the jacking pressure or excavation rate.

• Logistics The construction will require entry and exit shafts (jacking and reception pits) at either end of the proposed tunnel path, located away from the racetrack itself. 

By employing these advanced engineering techniques, the structural integrity and operational functionality of the racetrack can be maintained during the tunneling process.

Or the players could just jump the barrier and walk to the oval......

4 hours ago, Fritta and Turner said:

Well if the track has to be dug up to build a tunnel then the MRC may have something to say about that.

From an engineering standpoint its ridiculously simple and quick with drop in sections. Done in racing off season the MRC wouldn't even know... be far too busy fizzing off people and talking 💩

File under red-herrings 😉

Edited Monday at 05:182 days by beelzebub

3 hours ago, Redleg said:

A tunnel from our facilities to the ovals, inside the 28m wide track, can be dug without interfering with the racetrack.

I am sure the tunnel could be done at a time when the track is not used during Caulfield downtime and they also own Sandown and Mornington racetracks as well.

Yes, it is possible to dig a tunnel under a 28m wide racetrack without disturbing the top track layer using trenchless construction methods. These specialized engineering techniques are designed to minimize surface disruption, making them ideal for tunneling beneath active infrastructure like roads, railways, and racetracks. 

Methods for Non-Disruptive Tunneling

The primary methods used for this type of application are:

• Microtunneling This is a remotely controlled, steerable system where a small-diameter boring machine (MTBM) excavates the tunnel. As the machine advances, pre-fabricated pipes are simultaneously jacked into the ground behind it, providing immediate structural support and ensuring ground stability. This method is highly accurate and minimizes ground settlement, which is crucial for sensitive surface structures.

• Pipe Jacking Similar to microtunneling, this method involves pushing pre-fabricated pipes or box sections through the ground using powerful hydraulic jacks from a drive shaft. It is commonly used for installing utilities or pedestrian subways under existing infrastructure without interrupting surface traffic.

• Tunnel Boring Machines (TBMs) For larger tunnels (such as a full vehicle underpass), a TBM could be used. Modern TBMs with positive face pressure control (like Earth Pressure Balance or Slurry Shield) are specifically designed to operate in urban environments and soft ground conditions while maintaining soil pressure to prevent surface subsidence. 

Key Considerations for Success

• Geotechnical Investigation Before construction begins, a thorough site investigation of the ground and soil conditions (including groundwater levels) is essential to select the appropriate method and machine. Unexpected ground conditions are a main cause of failure in trenchless projects.

• Minimum Depth of Cover The tunnel must be installed at a sufficient depth below the track to ensure the stability of the surface. A qualified tunnelling engineer would determine the precise minimum depth required based on the soil type and tunnel size.

• Monitoring The process involves continuous and sensitive monitoring of the ground and the track surface to detect any minute movements and make real-time adjustments to the jacking pressure or excavation rate.

• Logistics The construction will require entry and exit shafts (jacking and reception pits) at either end of the proposed tunnel path, located away from the racetrack itself. 

By employing these advanced engineering techniques, the structural integrity and operational functionality of the racetrack can be maintained during the tunneling process.

Far too costly and needless.

Cut and stack top surface...

Excavate... establish drainage.. sub base.

Drop in inverted sections.. . Pour floor.

Finish.. off tunnel.. Lay sub strate to race track alignment.. Replace presaved turf..

It's really not hard. Could do in a fortnight.

This is not an impediment to design or construction. It's just a bloody tunnel.

The problems are not design or elements thereof. Thats just engineering and design.

We not inventing the wheel here. It's a nicey nicey warehouse type structure with gyms , offices and a cafeteria.. yep Rocket science right there.

A second year Arch student could whip that up in a weekend... an amateur with sketchup could do similar.

Seriously this is getting beyond a joke.

That no one at the club is saying boo, that its all been 'walked-back' suggests another TFU .

Process reporting ought not be sacrosanct. We aren't talking Stealth Fighters here.

Honestly, how hard to develop a business plan. They're not a mystery akin to the Pyramids... they're an every day thing that competent people create, and in an designated time frame and contextual brief.

That word competent keeps doing drive byes.

36 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

Or the players could just jump the barrier and walk to the oval......

Don't think they would want that much non racing use of the track, though you could possibly lay a protector mat of some sort down for access for training.

21 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Far too costly and needless.

Cut and stack top surface...

Excavate... establish drainage.. sub base.

Drop in inverted sections.. . Pour floor.

Finish.. off tunnel.. Lay sub strate to race track alignment.. Replace presaved turf..

It's really not hard. Could do in a fortnight.

This is not an impediment to design or construction. It's just a bloody tunnel.

You have me agreeing.

It’s fairly simple.

Just be deceptive, build a Trojan horse that wouldn’t look out of place on a racetrack.

The team jumps inside and pedals the mechanism across the track to training.

I don't know why but the training ground situation doesn't bother me all that much.

Carlton, North and Essendon have the so called "Taj Mahal" of training head quarters and all three clubs have been complete horse manure since they set up digs. Neither club has attracted many (f any) marquee players as a result of their world class establishments. Unless you call Cerra, Zac Williams and Luke Parker super stars of the sport.

We on the other hand won a flag with so called second world facilities.

Just give me a win on a Saturday and I'm happy.

54 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Just give me a win on a Saturday and I'm happy.

*Sunday

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I don't know why but the training ground situation doesn't bother me all that much.

Carlton, North and Essendon have the so called "Taj Mahal" of training head quarters and all three clubs have been complete horse manure since they set up digs. Neither club has attracted many (f any) marquee players as a result of their world class establishments. Unless you call Cerra, Zac Williams and Luke Parker super stars of the sport.

We on the other hand won a flag with so called second world facilities.

Just give me a win on a Saturday and I'm happy.

I have always felt the same way BBP. I can imagine the drive out to Casey might not be the most enjoyable some days but its a small price to pay when you're raking in some decent cash as a full time footballer with a fair bit of time to spare.

If I'm a best 22 player at a club and have options to move, I believe the location of a training facility would be a smaller part in the final decision making. Obviously I can speak for others, but I feel the primary reasons to change clubs would be based on:

• Chance of premiership success

• Dollars of contract

• Tenor of contract

• Playing a desirable/preferred role in the team.

• Moving back to home state.

I'd have these 5 well over what we have in place at present.

On 09/01/2026 at 23:10, george_on_the_outer said:

And similar to Hawthorn....this is their second one/redevelopment while we have nothing to show. The glass is totally empty.

The glass isn't empty.... we don't even have a glass anymore.

On 12/01/2026 at 12:54, Redleg said:

A tunnel from our facilities to the ovals, inside the 28m wide track, can be dug without interfering with the racetrack.

I am sure the tunnel could be done at a time when the track is not used during Caulfield downtime and they also own Sandown and Mornington racetracks as well.

Yes, it is possible to dig a tunnel under a 28m wide racetrack without disturbing the top track layer using trenchless construction methods. These specialized engineering techniques are designed to minimize surface disruption, making them ideal for tunneling beneath active infrastructure like roads, railways, and racetracks. 

Methods for Non-Disruptive Tunneling

The primary methods used for this type of application are:

• Microtunneling This is a remotely controlled, steerable system where a small-diameter boring machine (MTBM) excavates the tunnel. As the machine advances, pre-fabricated pipes are simultaneously jacked into the ground behind it, providing immediate structural support and ensuring ground stability. This method is highly accurate and minimizes ground settlement, which is crucial for sensitive surface structures.

• Pipe Jacking Similar to microtunneling, this method involves pushing pre-fabricated pipes or box sections through the ground using powerful hydraulic jacks from a drive shaft. It is commonly used for installing utilities or pedestrian subways under existing infrastructure without interrupting surface traffic.

• Tunnel Boring Machines (TBMs) For larger tunnels (such as a full vehicle underpass), a TBM could be used. Modern TBMs with positive face pressure control (like Earth Pressure Balance or Slurry Shield) are specifically designed to operate in urban environments and soft ground conditions while maintaining soil pressure to prevent surface subsidence. 

Key Considerations for Success

• Geotechnical Investigation Before construction begins, a thorough site investigation of the ground and soil conditions (including groundwater levels) is essential to select the appropriate method and machine. Unexpected ground conditions are a main cause of failure in trenchless projects.

• Minimum Depth of Cover The tunnel must be installed at a sufficient depth below the track to ensure the stability of the surface. A qualified tunnelling engineer would determine the precise minimum depth required based on the soil type and tunnel size.

• Monitoring The process involves continuous and sensitive monitoring of the ground and the track surface to detect any minute movements and make real-time adjustments to the jacking pressure or excavation rate.

• Logistics The construction will require entry and exit shafts (jacking and reception pits) at either end of the proposed tunnel path, located away from the racetrack itself. 

By employing these advanced engineering techniques, the structural integrity and operational functionality of the racetrack can be maintained during the tunneling process.

Gotta love chatgpt

4 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I don't know why but the training ground situation doesn't bother me all that much.

Carlton, North and Essendon have the so called "Taj Mahal" of training head quarters and all three clubs have been complete horse manure since they set up digs. Neither club has attracted many (f any) marquee players as a result of their world class establishments. Unless you call Cerra, Zac Williams and Luke Parker super stars of the sport.

We on the other hand won a flag with so called second world facilities.

Just give me a win on a Saturday and I'm happy.

We have won 1 Premiership in the past 61 years! 2 GF appearances.

Essendon, North and Carlton have won multiples over that period of time.

Brisbane are lining up for their 3 Premiership in a row and off the back of the past 3 GF's. They are able to attract Oscar Allen and Sam Draper.

Geelong have played in 6 GF's since 2000 with 3 wins.

All have 1st rate facilities and they consistently are at the top end of the ladder (except North, who also have second rate facilities) . Their players are better prepared.

They spend their time actually training instead of sharing facilities with soccer and rugby clubs, or driving for 90 minutes each time they go to Casey.

In elite sport it is the small advantages which make the difference. For us we are at a huge disadvantage each and every year.

Edited yesterday at 05:561 day by george_on_the_outer

2 hours ago, george_on_the_outer said:

All have 1st rate facilities

They are significant assets too

Edited yesterday at 08:151 day by dice

We could call International Rescue. Bring in the Mole aboard TB2.