Training Ground?

[Wells 11 5,422]

3 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

I'd be more than willing to chip in an extra $500 o top of my membership if it guaranteed us getting our homebase built. Reckon there'd be a fair few more too willing to put money in.

There was lots of talk after we won the flag of very well off supporters ringing up the club wanting to help fund getting a home base. Im sure most if not all would be willing to put money up, after all, a home is ultimately more important for us than a premiership now.

Agreed. If they had a financial target I think a ton of members, myself included, would go the extra mile to help. 

[Harvey Wallbanger 1,034]

5 hours ago, Oxdee said:

I don’t see this as an issue… no one builds a facility like this with 100% cash. The club will have $30m from cash reserves and members donations. Assume they will be able to raise another $25m from governments, the AFL, the Melbourne Cricket Club and private investors and benefactors. It will leave a $45m shortfall which would be borrowed and paid down over decades. The club generates $60m in revenue. Paying the debt off at $3m annually isn’t a concern.

I don't think the plan includes any borrowing...

[Adam The God 30,420]

8 hours ago, chookrat said:

Good to read that the Caulfield Racecourse Reserve Trust is supportive of our proposal and that as a tenant the Melbourne Racing Club's view on the matter doesn't carry alot of weight.

Re funding, based on below it looks like most clubs have received in the order of $30 - 50m in State and Federal Government funding for facilities in the past 20 years. Given we had little funding in the 20 years preceding this it would be reasonable to assume that we would receive at the upper end of this minus the funding we received to develop Casey, so probably should expect in the order of $40m between State and Federal Government and a top up from Glen Eira Council. This leaves ~$30m from Members and Benefactors.

I don't buy onto the argument that State and Federal Government don't have the money.  Outside of Wartime or a Great Depression there is always funding available for this sort of project.

https://australiansportreflections.com/2024/02/28/update-on-federal-and-state-governments-funding-of-afl-and-nrl-high-performance-training-centres/?amp=1

The feds issue the currency, it's unlimited. The constraints are self imposed by nuffy neoliberals. They need to get people working and projects happening. The developers will make money too, and they basically run the joint.

Commonwealth should stop issuing debt tomorrow and the alarmism around government debt would be no longer. The banks and shadow banks love corporate welfare though - non bearing reserves for interest bearing bonds are always preferable for them.

I do think there is a good angle to raise federal financing, state and local too. It's just that we haven't found the right angle. Given how the MCC views us, I'd expect our financing strategy to be pretty ordinary.

[Oxdee 439]

12 minutes ago, Hawk the Demon said:

I don't think the plan includes any borrowing...

So it’s either raise $100m or don’t go ahead with the plan? It’s outrageous not to consider borrowings. Imagine people having to wait until they saved enough to buy their houses outright? No one would ever buy 

[Supreme_Demon 3,899]

I think we as Melbourne supporters can raise the funds of $100 million dollars ourselves. Obviously, some more than others, depending upon our personal financial situations.

I do agree that we should have done this earlier in 2021 after our Premiership success. That was a missed opportunity.

The most important thing is getting our Home Base built at Caulfield Racecourse in the next few years. Finally having a Home Base in our lifetime is just as significant (if not more) as winning an AFL Premiership at the MCG.

I have faith that we can get it done!

[demosaw 1,072]

1 hour ago, Supreme_Demon said:

 

I think we as Melbourne supporters can raise the funds of $100 million dollars ourselves. Obviously, some more than others, depending upon our personal financial situations.

 

[Harvey Wallbanger 1,034]

5 hours ago, Oxdee said:

So it’s either raise $100m or don’t go ahead with the plan? It’s outrageous not to consider borrowings. Imagine people having to wait until they saved enough to buy their houses outright? No one would ever buy 

Just thinking about economics - you suggest borrowing money, whilst keeping in tact a $30 million future fund? - that I believe is called saying goodbye to a negative spread - up against the wall. Management and the Board should be challenged to get this project done without any borrowings. Now, who on the Board is going to drive that? - the doctor, the auditor, the former player, the lawyer (s), the investment manager.....

[Oxdee 439]

7 hours ago, Hawk the Demon said:

Just thinking about economics - you suggest borrowing money, whilst keeping in tact a $30 million future fund? - that I believe is called saying goodbye to a negative spread - up against the wall. Management and the Board should be challenged to get this project done without any borrowings. Now, who on the Board is going to drive that? - the doctor, the auditor, the former player, the lawyer (s), the investment manager.....

What’s a future fund for if it isn’t to secure a home base for your club for the next 50 years? 

[Grr-owl 1,251]

22 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I've been fortunate enough to see the design of the two proposed ovals.

Here it is.

Actually, there's another there in the foreground, modeled on Moorabbin...

[Diamond_Jim 12,628]

The Hawks new training ground had a cost (not sure if it included land) of $113M.

They got $15M from each of the State and Federal governments plus $5M from the local Council leaving $73M to raise themselves. (Albanese was at the shovel ceremony in early 2024).

The oval at Waverley Park is owned by Hawthorn and the last grandstand is heritage listed. (Hawks still own it but can they sell it or raise money against it?)

Would be interesting to know how the final $73M was funded.

Hawks site has a donation target of $5M for the project at the moment.

By the way the training centre sits on an old waste dump and has been "tested and treated" for methane gas leaks. ( Cue the hot air puns)

It has not been without controversy

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/08/03/hawthorn-urged-to-continue-with-dingley-project-despite-escalating-costs/

Edited October 26 by Diamond_Jim

[george_on_the_outer 7,707]

I think most of the Hawks money has come from the sale of the Waverley gardens , and Caroline springs Pokie venues.  Something in the order of $40m profit! ....with the total sales at around $50M. 

The majority of the reminaining will come from "consolidated revenues" built up from running these venues for a long time.  In other words, they already have the money in the bank.  And given that they are only seeking $5M from members, it gives you a fair idea of how far ahead they are compared to us. 

 

[picket fence 17,516]

On 18/09/2024 at 12:51, whatwhat say what said:

not surprised by the amount of negativity

i am going to guess that we will wait for a year to have the business case approved before first sods turned 2026; building open in 2030

Try 2130!

[ElDiablo14 5,002]

On 25/10/2024 at 11:35, biggestred said:

$260 million from the state government is absolutely wild. 

How many affordable houses can you build with that?

[biggestred 5,140]

2 hours ago, ElDiablo14 said:

How many affordable houses can you build with that?

None, I'm a terrible carpenter

[Demonsone 2,044]

On 25/10/2024 at 07:21, demosaw said:

Article in the age this morning highlights funding gap

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/melbourne-s-70-million-funding-gap-threatens-caulfield-home-base-plans-20241024-p5kl3o.html

Looking at the time line over the last 25yrs it shows how poorly our administration has performed & going around in circles! The current Pert & co need to be questioned if this falls over!  Both hawks & Collingwood found sites outside of their original home grounds and the hawks are onto their 2nd site! 

[DistrACTION Jackson 9,246]

1 minute ago, Demonsone said:

Looking at the time line over the last 25yrs it shows how poorly our administration has performed & going around in circles! The current Pert & co need to be questioned if this falls over!  Both hawks & Collingwood found sites outside of their original home grounds and the hawks are onto their 2nd site! 

I think the main reason is we spent years and years trying to get something near the MCG. If we just started looking at different locations sooner we would have something by now.

[Demonsone 2,044]

4 minutes ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

I think the main reason is we spent years and years trying to get something near the MCG. If we just started looking at different locations sooner we would have something by now.

Correct, utterly frustrating watching other clubs secure funding whilst watching us go around in circles!

Edited October 26 by Demonsone

[george_on_the_outer 7,707]

1 hour ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

I think the main reason is we spent years and years trying to get something near the MCG. If we just started looking at different locations sooner we would have something by now.

Correct.  Looking back at the proposals which have come from the Board in the past 10 years, blind Freddy would see that none were going to solve the needs of the club. 

Yarra Park..you have got to be joking.  Needed to move as much earth as the great pyramid and the residents were always going to object.  Carparks E & F at AAMI...did anyone actually walk across to see the miniscule patch of ground this offered?  Let's have an admin building overlooking Collingwoods training ground....sheesh.

The Caulfield redevelopment was announced in 2021!.  We are closing in on 2025, and not a single sod of earth has been moved. 4 years of further nothing. 

  @old dee and I are running out of years....

Edited October 26 by george_on_the_outer

[DistrACTION Jackson 9,246]

1 hour ago, george_on_the_outer said:

Correct.  Looking back at the proposals which have come from the Board in the past 10 years, blind Freddy would see that none were going to solve the needs of the club. 

Yarra Park..you have got to be joking.  Needed to move as much earth as the great pyramid and the residents were always going to object.  Carparks E & F at AAMI...did anyone actually walk across to see the miniscule patch of ground this offered?  Let's have an admin building overlooking Collingwoods training ground....sheesh.

The Caulfield redevelopment was announced in 2021!.  We are closing in on 2025, and not a single sod of earth has been moved. 4 years of further nothing. 

  @old dee and I are running out of years....

Yep. But it goes further than just the current board and Gary Pert. I mean we had Cameron Schwab spending his days making a new emblem that had about 10 different meanings and was terrible to look at.

[drysdale demon 4,837]

On 25/10/2024 at 17:31, Hawk the Demon said:

I don't think the plan includes any borrowing...

You wouldn't know

[Demonsone 2,044]

1 hour ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

Yep. But it goes further than just the current board and Gary Pert. I mean we had Cameron Schwab spending his days making a new emblem that had about 10 different meanings and was terrible to look at.

Pert & co have been there since 2018 and I’m sorry many missed opportunities & blinkers on the mcg precinct … Even the swans found a place not far from the scg …. Honestly Caulfield is a pipe dream!  Port Melb fishermen bend development was announced years ago and a club port melb ground in need for redevelopment, same theme song successful history… all those warehouses are going around & in fact the council are turning one of them into a sports oval …understanding commercials are complex but which players are attracted to drive 50mins to Casey … nothing against Casey either but were was the thinking behind this with previous boards 

Edited October 27 by Demonsone

[samcantstandya 1,057]

19 hours ago, george_on_the_outer said:

I think most of the Hawks money has come from the sale of the Waverley gardens , and Caroline springs Pokie venues.  Something in the order of $40m profit! ....with the total sales at around $50M. 

The majority of the reminaining will come from "consolidated revenues" built up from running these venues for a long time.  In other words, they already have the money in the bank.  And given that they are only seeking $5M from members, it gives you a fair idea of how far ahead they are compared to us. 

 

Profits from the misery of others who gambled their $$$ away, whilst we walked away from gambling $$$ the hawks feathered their nest. The govt should think about that and supports clubs like us that have morals.

[old dee 23,872]

9 hours ago, george_on_the_outer said:

Correct.  Looking back at the proposals which have come from the Board in the past 10 years, blind Freddy would see that none were going to solve the needs of the club. 

Yarra Park..you have got to be joking.  Needed to move as much earth as the great pyramid and the residents were always going to object.  Carparks E & F at AAMI...did anyone actually walk across to see the miniscule patch of ground this offered?  Let's have an admin building overlooking Collingwoods training ground....sheesh.

The Caulfield redevelopment was announced in 2021!.  We are closing in on 2025, and not a single sod of earth has been moved. 4 years of further nothing. 

  @old dee and I are running out of years....

George I have conceded that I will probably not see a new home. Sadly I am not convinced that Caulfield will fly. 

[old dee 23,872]

6 hours ago, samcantstandya said:

Profits from the misery of others who gambled their $$$ away, whilst we walked away from gambling $$$ the hawks feathered their nest. The govt should think about that and supports clubs like us that have morals.

I think that is the joke of the week, morals and governments in the same sentence. The only thing that motivates governments are votes and returning to power. Sadly there are very few votes in the MFC.

[Demon Disciple 12,274]

10 hours ago, george_on_the_outer said:

 

  @old dee and I are running out of years....

Be thankful that you were around to see the 2021 flag.

How many long suffering supporters were not as lucky as you and I?

Two that spring to mind are Jimmy and Robbie