Best 22? / Next 22??

[Turner 1,516]

5 hours ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Adjusting based on recent training reports and what I think we’ll see. 

Lever May Lockhart

Rivers ATom Salem

Langdon Oliver TMac

Petracca Weid Spargo

Pickett Brown Fritsch

Hunt Jackson ANB Jordon

Melksham Smith Sparrow

My assumption that Brayshaw, Hibberd and Petty will not be 100% ready to roll round 1.

brayshaw has said on poddy he's on track and hibbo surely is considering idek what he's missing with (possibly just load management?)

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,421]

9 minutes ago, Turner said:

brayshaw has said on poddy he's on track and hibbo surely is considering idek what he's missing with (possibly just load management?)

There is no way that I can see that Brayshaw will have the kilometres in the legs compared to other players. I will be very surprised if he is there in the first month let alone round 1. Hibberd likely but I either way I feel Hunt will skip in front of him for a half back flank. 

[58er 6,878]

15 hours ago, Turner said:

brayshaw has said on poddy he's on track and hibbo surely is considering idek what he's missing with (possibly just load management?)

Big Red Gawn Viney Harmes??? For ruck etc??? 

[58er 6,878]

15 hours ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

There is no way that I can see that Brayshaw will have the kilometres in the legs compared to other players. I will be very surprised if he is there in the first month let alone round 1. Hibberd likely but I either way I feel Hunt will skip in front of him for a half back flank. 

Big Red see my post below!!!

[58er 6,878]

17 hours ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

Cant be bothered doing a best 22 again but I would have Joel Smith in the team as the lockdown defender on small forwards, and Spargo will play Round 1.

 

Lockhart should and will be BP minding smalls and Smithy a seventh defender possibly fir X factor and agile players ( fitness permitting).

Thought his last 2/3 games in 2020 he started to look as if he was much more comfortable and was adjusting to the team play on the backline far more.

Spargs I agree will be in Round 1 as he continues to grow  his game and impact with greater involvement.

[58er 6,878]

On 1/22/2021 at 5:48 PM, WERRIDEE said:

Based on Hore's injury our best 22 is

B: HIBBERD, MAY, LEVER

HB: SALEM, TOMLINSON, RIVERS

C : LANGDON, PETRACCA, BAKER

HF: MELKSHAM, MCDONALD, FRITSCH

F: PICKETT, B.BROWN, WEIDMAN

FOLL: GAWN, OLIVER, VINEY

IC: BRAYSHAW, HARMES, HUNT, JACKSON

 

CASEY

B: LOCKHART, HUTCHINS, JETTA

HB: SMITH, PETTY, BOWEY

C: MUTIMER, JONES, FOOT

HF: NEAL-BULLEN, WHITE, VANDENBERG

F: SPARGO, M.BROWN, BEDFORD

FOLL: BRADTKE, SPARROW, MUNRO

IC: ROSMAN, JORDON, LAURIE, NEITCHKE

Wdee 

Ejo minds the opposition small players ??
You continually overlook Lockhart snd indeed place Hore in the team ( now out and Locky still not in for that role) None except Salem who I like on the wing or HFF. Are small minders and we continually get burnt by oppos smalls viz. Daniels (GWS) Rivers has the ability but Lockhart brings the pace and aggression I think we need down back to break lines.

PS They May be grooming Hunt agsin but I think wing or HFF could still be his position.

Reckon  Spargo Will make Round1 as he further improves and have a feeling Rodman might grab a wing.

For improvement we must be careful to Not start Or hold on to spots for  too many 2018 heroes ie Melky Harmes and ANB Vanders who are one of the reasons we have not improved as their form or game style have plateaued.

The future is about our 2019 and 2020 recruits Development plus Brown and improvement in Fritta Tommo and I believe a rejuvenated Tommy  Mac. Hopefully Sparrow and Jordan taking the next step to become best 25 ers.
 

I am desperately hoping Yze and Chocco  force Goody to Realise this as the sooner the better in our development This will have a big say on whether we are just making numbers up in Finals or IMO legitimately Competing for our Much awaited 13th flag!!

 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

Luke Jackson is easily in our best 22. Likely half a season off being in out best dozen. It is just a matter of correct development and using his flexibility to achieve team balance.

 

[Ugottobekidding 1,246]

Not sure about Baker yet. would have Vanders in the best 22. Not sure about Hibbered either.

[WERRIDEE 5,667]

16 hours ago, 58er said:

Wdee 

Ejo minds the opposition small players ??
You continually overlook Lockhart snd indeed place Hore in the team ( now out and Locky still not in for that role) None except Salem who I like on the wing or HFF. Are small minders and we continually get burnt by oppos smalls viz. Daniels (GWS) Rivers has the ability but Lockhart brings the pace and aggression I think we need down back to break lines.

PS They May be grooming Hunt agsin but I think wing or HFF could still be his position.

Reckon  Spargo Will make Round1 as he further improves and have a feeling Rodman might grab a wing.

For improvement we must be careful to Not start Or hold on to spots for  too many 2018 heroes ie Melky Harmes and ANB Vanders who are one of the reasons we have not improved as their form or game style have plateaued.

The future is about our 2019 and 2020 recruits Development plus Brown and improvement in Fritta Tommo and I believe a rejuvenated Tommy  Mac. Hopefully Sparrow and Jordan taking the next step to become best 25 ers.
 

I am desperately hoping Yze and Chocco  force Goody to Realise this as the sooner the better in our development This will have a big say on whether we are just making numbers up in Finals or IMO legitimately Competing for our Much awaited 13th flag!!

 

If Spargo and Lockhart play we have a chance of losing it. NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

[Damo 3,483]

I see where St Kilda's coach has stated that last year he allowed players to play their game and not overload them with instructions, just to be their best. It seems to have worked. Im not sure which team it was that interviewed the players and asked them which position they could be the best possible asset to the team in, and tried to allow the player to concentrate on that role. Another interview I remember reading from yet another coach that interested me in that he said whichever player was most professional in that position would be chosen to play there.

For each of these different views it would make sense that the coach would have a list of key attributes for each separate position and rate the players striving to hold a position or even 2 or 3 different ones. Those capable of holding a couple would of course be adaptable to what is needed on the day. I think MFC has a potted history of allowing players their preferred roles.

Those adaptable are smart and possibly multi-skilled players. Im thinking Bayley Fritsch, Luke Jackson and Tom Mac; all being able to play forward and wing. Im not sure where their wants lie, but Im guessing it isnt the wing. But prepared to adapt and smart...

Then we have Jones Harmes and Brayshaw, maybe Melksham. Im not sure at all about their adaptability to change behavior to be their best in another role. Harmesys interview yesterday doesnt leave me warmly assured.

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Damo

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,421]

16 minutes ago, Damo said:

I see where St Kilda's coach has stated that last year he allowed players to play their game and not overload them with instructions, just to be their best. It seems to have worked. Im not sure which team it was that interviewed the players and asked them which position they could be the best possible asset to the team in, and tried to allow the player to concentrate on that role. Another interview I remember reading from yet another coach that interested me in that he said whichever player was most professional in that position would be chosen to play there.

For each of these different views it would make sense that the coach would have a list of key attributes for each separate position and rate the players striving to hold a position or even 2 or 3 different ones. Those capable of holding a couple would of course be adaptable to what is needed on the day. I think MFC has a potted history of allowing players their preferred roles.

Those adaptable are smart and possibly multi-skilled players. Im thinking Bayley Fritsch, Luke Jackson and Tom Mac; all being able to play forward and wing. Im not sure where their wants lie, but Im guessing it isnt the wing. But prepared to adapt and smart...

Then we have Jones Harmes and Brayshaw, maybe Melksham. Im not sure at all about their adaptability to change behavior to be their best in another role. Harmesys interview yesterday doesnt leave me warmly assured.

 

 

 

I think there is wanting to play another role and being capable to play it. I would suspect Harmes was all for it at the start of 2019 but was not capable and lost all confidence. I sense from that interview he maybe also struggled in the hub (amplified by poor form I suspect). Of course then its natural that he be excited to get back to where he has played his best footy. 

[58er 6,878]

18 hours ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

I think there is wanting to play another role and being capable to play it. I would suspect Harmes was all for it at the start of 2019 but was not capable and lost all confidence. I sense from that interview he maybe also struggled in the hub (amplified by poor form I suspect). Of course then its natural that he be excited to get back to where he has played his best footy. 

Damo since when has Fritta Jacko  or Tmac ( for a very small sample) proved they can play top level footy on a wing???

Thats not to say they may succeed on a rotational basis fir small periods during a game!

This wing position is getting out of hand 

Lets look and train Rosmsn as our recruit and say Hunt or Salem whoever are bring tried as a full time option bringing speed and skill like Langers to the position.

Its not a project position just because Tommo is suited better in defence.

Hopefull dome sanity will prevail ASAP. 

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,421]

1 hour ago, 58er said:

Damo since when has Fritta Jacko  or Tmac ( for a very small sample) proved they can play top level footy on a wing???

Thats not to say they may succeed on a rotational basis fir small periods during a game!

This wing position is getting out of hand 

Lets look and train Rosmsn as our recruit and say Hunt or Salem whoever are bring tried as a full time option bringing speed and skill like Langers to the position.

Its not a project position just because Tommo is suited better in defence.

Hopefull dome sanity will prevail ASAP. 

Could you not argue the same for your position? When has Hunt or Salem proven they are capable of playing the wing at any time? We have one person who has shown he can play above average - elite wing in Langdon and one in Tomlinson who has shown at GWS he can play it to an AFL average level. Everyone else has no proven consistent level demonstrated. 

[WERRIDEE 5,667]

Due to Ben Brown's injury I've changed my best and next 22.

 

B: HIBBERD, MAY, LEVER

HB: SALEM, TOMLINSON, RIVERS

C : LANGDON, PETRACCA, BAKER

HF: MELKSHAM, MCDONALD, FRITSCH

F: PICKETT, WEIDEMAN, JACKSON

FOLL: GAWN, OLIVER, VINEY

IC: BRAYSHAW, HARMES, HUNT, NEAL-BULLEN

EMERG: VANDENBERG, SPARROW, JORDON, SPARGO

 

CASEY

B: LOCKHART, HUTCHINS, JETTA

HB: SMITH, PETTY, BOWEY

C : MUTIMER, JONES, FOOT

HF: VANDENBERG, WHITE, LAURIE

F: SPARGO, M.BROWN, BEDFORD 

FOLL: BRADTKE, SPARROW, MUNRO

IC: JORDON, ROSMAN, CHANDLER, NEITSCHKE 

[58er 6,878]

3 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

Due to Ben Brown's injury I've changed my best and next 22.

 

B: HIBBERD, MAY, LEVER

HB: SALEM, TOMLINSON, RIVERS

C : LANGDON, PETRACCA, BAKER

HF: MELKSHAM, MCDONALD, FRITSCH

F: PICKETT, WEIDEMAN, JACKSON

FOLL: GAWN, OLIVER, VINEY

IC: BRAYSHAW, HARMES, HUNT, NEAL-BULLEN

EMERG: VANDENBERG, SPARROW, JORDON, SPARGO

 

CASEY

B: LOCKHART, HUTCHINS, JETTA

HB: SMITH, PETTY, BOWEY

C : MUTIMER, JONES, FOOT

HF: VANDENBERG, WHITE, LAURIE

F: SPARGO, M.BROWN, BEDFORD 

FOLL: BRADTKE, SPARROW, MUNRO

IC: JORDON, ROSMAN, CHANDLER, NEITSCHKE 

For the humpteenth time Wdee who is the "old back pocket" in your team? 
Logic says it must be either Lockhart or Jetta!  And look where both are in your teams!!

Both playing side be side at Casey!! For years we have been Torched  by SMALL forwards skipping and running around crumbing and kicking valuable goals as our backs look slow and cumbersome and no plan to cover these types.

Case in point was vs GWS in Round 17 as Daniel looked the only real threat in kicking 3 goals While all the other forwards were well held by Tommo May Lever and Rivers  etc.

The BP is necessary to give balance to defence, to run and carry and break lines ( speed and dare) and while Jets has been our champ over the last 5 years its time to recognise that itsThe  Fitter faster and more aggressive Lockhart that fits our 2021 style. 

Your Proposed team will be adequate for Round1 ( not sure whether we win or lose) but I'll  guarantee that at  least 4/5 spots will be different at seasons end IF we are to gave any chance of doing damage in the Finsls.

Its time we moved on from the 2018 "heroes"  some of which are not Paying their way and Father Time and their old game style has caught up with them. I refer to Jetta Melksham vandenBerg Neal-Bullen and possibly Hunt. 
 

I would bite the bullet and go for Rosman  Spargo Lockhart Sparrow/Jordan and if fit  Petty  Instead of Baker Hunt Harmes and ANB and AVB as emergency. Sadly Jonesy will have to wait his turn.

My "future" 22 plus emergencies would be assuming Hibbo ( who had a good responsive return in defence in 2020) and Viney are match  fit and Petty also.

My AFL team vs Freo in Round 1 is :

B   Lockhart May Hibberd 

HB  Lever Petty Rivers 

C   Langdon Petracca Rosman

HF  Fritsch McDonald Spargo 

F   Pickett Weideman Jackson

R  Gawn Oliver Viney 

I   Tomlinson Sparrow/Jordan  Salem Brayshaw.

Emerg   Sparrow/Jordan Harmes Hunt and Baker/ANB 

Depth   AvB Melksham Baker/ANB Jetta Jones J. Smith* Bowey* Laurie* M.Brown Bedford Bradtke Chandler  Neitschke. 
* if showing Promising and good form in practice matches consider for AFL if team too slow and/ not enough small crumbing and running types. 

INJ   B.Brown Hore.

I believe this team and approach is overdue fir us to be a serious challenger in 2021 for Finals and indeed A flag.

 

 

 

[Kent 2,920]

On 1/25/2021 at 6:19 AM, 58er said:

Wdee 

Ejo minds the opposition small players ??
You continually overlook Lockhart snd indeed place Hore in the team ( now out and Locky still not in for that role) None except Salem who I like on the wing or HFF. Are small minders and we continually get burnt by oppos smalls viz. Daniels (GWS) Rivers has the ability but Lockhart brings the pace and aggression I think we need down back to break lines.

PS They May be grooming Hunt agsin but I think wing or HFF could still be his position.

Reckon  Spargo Will make Round1 as he further improves and have a feeling Rodman might grab a wing.

For improvement we must be careful to Not start Or hold on to spots for  too many 2018 heroes ie Melky Harmes and ANB Vanders who are one of the reasons we have not improved as their form or game style have plateaued.

The future is about our 2019 and 2020 recruits Development plus Brown and improvement in Fritta Tommo and I believe a rejuvenated Tommy  Mac. Hopefully Sparrow and Jordan taking the next step to become best 25 ers.
 

I am desperately hoping Yze and Chocco  force Goody to Realise this as the sooner the better in our development This will have a big say on whether we are just making numbers up in Finals or IMO legitimately Competing for our Much awaited 13th flag!!

 

Again if this is what we are waiting for? Why the hell to we need Goodwin?

Either He can do the job or not. Simple really having to Force him means he is resisting reality and should be sacked.

[dee-tox 4,835]

I'm sorry but I don't want Baker anywhere near the team. Apart from two flukey goals against GWS I've seen nothing that convinces me he can play anywhere near the level. His fitness is appalling and has no tricks. 

I'm also worried about those selecting TMac on a wing. He has the turning circle of the Queen Mary and the reflexes of 55 year old fielding in slip.

Fritsch maybe an option for the second wing spot, but he is a natural forward and there are doubts over his two-way running. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by dee-tox

[BW511 2,759]

4 hours ago, 58er said:

My AFL team vs Freo in Round 1 is :

B   Lockhart May Salem

HB  Lever Petty Rivers 

C   Langdon Petracca Rosman

HF  Fritsch McDonald Spargo 

F   Pickett Weideman Jackson

R  Gawn Oliver Viney 

I   Tomlinson Jordan Hunt Sparrow 

 

 

 

 

My changes in bold

I don't have Hibbo in, replaced with Salem.

Brayshaw won't play Round 1.

I would prefer Tomlinson at CHB and Petty at CHF, but it's likely T-Mac will get a chance with the way he has been applying himself in training.

[Bring-Back-Powell 15,634]

1 hour ago, dee-tox said:

I'm sorry but I don't want Baker anywhere near the team. Apart from two flukey goals against GWS I've seen nothing that convinces me he can play anywhere near the level. His fitness is appalling and has no tricks.  

Fair point. When I think of Baker the first thing I think of was his 2 goal game against GWS last year. But aside from that he hasn't done anything to warrant the permanent wing spot for this year.

Will come in and out of the side throughout the year though if he's injury free.

[whatwhat say what 24,118]

i think there's an obvious distinction between 'best 22 / next 22' and 'likely 22 for rd 1'

hore and b brown are definitely out, and the likes of viney, brayshaw, hibberd, and vandenberg will be up against it for rd 1 given their lack of / interrupted pre-season preparation

[All the Jacks 99]

Petty, Jordan and Sparrow hopefully ready and waiting 

[DeeSpencer 26,783]

4 hours ago, dee-tox said:

I'm sorry but I don't want Baker anywhere near the team. Apart from two flukey goals against GWS I've seen nothing that convinces me he can play anywhere near the level. His fitness is appalling and has no tricks. 

I'm also worried about those selecting TMac on a wing. He has the turning circle of the Queen Mary and the reflexes of 55 year old fielding in slip.

Fritsch maybe an option for the second wing spot, but he is a natural forward and there are doubts over his two-way running. 

Baker no tricks? He can hit the scoreboard, break lines with pace and has a penetrating (if not always accurate) kick. His issue is he's poor at the fundamentals like pressure, tackling and aerial contesting. Plus the fitness concerns - that surely have to be somewhat improved after this summer. I still have some hope for him but I wouldn't have him in at the start of the year. 

I think Tommy Mc if in the side will be a forward rotating through the wing not a primary wingman. If Jackson/Brown or Jackson/Weid are the key forwards Tom will be on the wing, then go forward once Jackson rucks or the other key forward rests on the bench. Fritsch might be used the same way. The longer quarters this year will mean more rest for tall forwards and for Gawn (ruck) and Langdon (wing), so a 3rd tall forward who can spend a bit of time on the wing allows you to always have 2 tall forwards without ever being stuck with 3 and no tackle pressure. 

My guess for the starting wing job at this stage would be Melksham to get him a permanent position, and failing that Harmes who can do the fundamental two way running and contested work. Rosman a long shot but will get his chance in preseason games, even if his skills and smarts are a long way off the physical package is too attractive.

[old55 23,883]

2 hours ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

i think there's an obvious distinction between 'best 22 / next 22' and 'likely 22 for rd 1'

hore and b brown are definitely out, and the likes of viney, brayshaw, hibberd, and vandenberg will be up against it for rd 1 given their lack of / interrupted pre-season preparation

Yes I agree.  Best 22 / Next 22 should consider all players available except confirmed LTE like Hore IMO.

As for R1 - well it's premature, as B.Brown's injury has shown.

[58er 6,878]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Baker no tricks? He can hit the scoreboard, break lines with pace and has a penetrating (if not always accurate) kick. His issue is he's poor at the fundamentals like pressure, tackling and aerial contesting. Plus the fitness concerns - that surely have to be somewhat improved after this summer. I still have some hope for him but I wouldn't have him in at the start of the year. 

I think Tommy Mc if in the side will be a forward rotating through the wing not a primary wingman. If Jackson/Brown or Jackson/Weid are the key forwards Tom will be on the wing, then go forward once Jackson rucks or the other key forward rests on the bench. Fritsch might be used the same way. The longer quarters this year will mean more rest for tall forwards and for Gawn (ruck) and Langdon (wing), so a 3rd tall forward who can spend a bit of time on the wing allows you to always have 2 tall forwards without ever being stuck with 3 and no tackle pressure. 

My guess for the starting wing job at this stage would be Melksham to get him a permanent position, and failing that Harmes who can do the fundamental two way running and contested work. Rosman a long shot but will get his chance in preseason games, even if his skills and smarts are a long way off the physical package is too attractive.

DS don't mind your Baker summary Actually he plays more like a Half forward than a wingman ( at least the game vs GWS which he kicked those great goals. But let's look at fitness and tank after the pre:season and practice games to see where he is at.

Rosman has that already pace and endurance so he is a mile ahead of Baker and skills also I bet. Milkshake wouldn't run at HF so why ask him to run both ways like Langdon No Melky is on the edge IMO and only blackmail by Goody as his friend can save his spot. Please also agree about Tommy wing is only for about3 mins and also dies t he have a rest also? Salem or Hunt would be my choice to try but actually very happy if Fraser earns his song spot Ashe is doing his level best to do.

Also let's not fall into the trap that all he can do is run His marking kicking and goal scoring are also being noted by the pundits and on doubt the Coaches.

If I was a betting man Ros gets first go on the wingopposite Langers  and we have two running  beasts that will bring our team attacking and connection up forward ahead a long way. Laurie from the reports today is also making good his running and disposal skills so that augurs well for our flanks for the future.

[WERRIDEE 5,667]

10 hours ago, 58er said:

For the humpteenth time Wdee who is the "old back pocket" in your team? 
Logic says it must be either Lockhart or Jetta!  And look where both are in your teams!!

Both playing side be side at Casey!! For years we have been Torched  by SMALL forwards skipping and running around crumbing and kicking valuable goals as our backs look slow and cumbersome and no plan to cover these types.

Case in point was vs GWS in Round 17 as Daniel looked the only real threat in kicking 3 goals While all the other forwards were well held by Tommo May Lever and Rivers  etc.

The BP is necessary to give balance to defence, to run and carry and break lines ( speed and dare) and while Jets has been our champ over the last 5 years its time to recognise that itsThe  Fitter faster and more aggressive Lockhart that fits our 2021 style. 

Your Proposed team will be adequate for Round1 ( not sure whether we win or lose) but I'll  guarantee that at  least 4/5 spots will be different at seasons end IF we are to gave any chance of doing damage in the Finsls.

Its time we moved on from the 2018 "heroes"  some of which are not Paying their way and Father Time and their old game style has caught up with them. I refer to Jetta Melksham vandenBerg Neal-Bullen and possibly Hunt. 
 

I would bite the bullet and go for Rosman  Spargo Lockhart Sparrow/Jordan and if fit  Petty  Instead of Baker Hunt Harmes and ANB and AVB as emergency. Sadly Jonesy will have to wait his turn.

My "future" 22 plus emergencies would be assuming Hibbo ( who had a good responsive return in defence in 2020) and Viney are match  fit and Petty also.

My AFL team vs Freo in Round 1 is :

B   Lockhart May Hibberd 

HB  Lever Petty Rivers 

C   Langdon Petracca Rosman

HF  Fritsch McDonald Spargo 

F   Pickett Weideman Jackson

R  Gawn Oliver Viney 

I   Tomlinson Sparrow/Jordan  Salem Brayshaw.

Emerg   Sparrow/Jordan Harmes Hunt and Baker/ANB 

Depth   AvB Melksham Baker/ANB Jetta Jones J. Smith* Bowey* Laurie* M.Brown Bedford Bradtke Chandler  Neitschke. 
* if showing Promising and good form in practice matches consider for AFL if team too slow and/ not enough small crumbing and running types. 

INJ   B.Brown Hore.

I believe this team and approach is overdue fir us to be a serious challenger in 2021 for Finals and indeed A flag.

 

 

 

Don't need Lockhart or Jetta. Hibberd, Rivers and Salem can play back pocket. Lockhart and Jetta could not get a game at the end of the year. Smith is in front of them, probably Petty as well.

Don't know why Rosman would be in the team he's raw.

Too many back man on the bench no forwards on the bench.

Salem too good to be on the bench ahead of Lockhart any day of the week.

Doubt they will play 4 key defenders. Petty has been in good form but I think the 3rd key backman spot will go to Tomlinson.