I do think we are desperately in need of leadership within the club, but not based upon the Brownlow results. 

FFS, it's voted on by the umpires!

We bag umpires during the season and then use their judgement to bag Jones and Viney???? Lol

I hope a few here listened closely to Fyfe's acceptance speech where he thanked supporters and noted strongly how important it is for players to receive positive support as motivation, help at times when things weren't going that well. They really appreciate it.

Imagine what it would be like for our players if all our 52,000 supporters relentlessly bagged the players 20 times a day, every week of the year, like some do here on Demonland. There's a difference between constructive and relentlessly aggressive negative criticism.

Everyone knows the club didn't perform well this year, and it was a huge disappointment from 2018, but Fremantle didn't exactly set the world on fire either. I can't see how relentless negativity helps make average players better, and good players great. It would be like playing under a dark cloud every time you stepped over the white line.

Edited September 24, 20195 yr by mauriesy

21 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I'm not sure if we're agreeing or arguing! I agree that Jones should not be captain and that he is lucky not have been dropped during the season just passed. When I said that his season was OK because he wasn't dropped, that wasn't intended to be a ringing endorsement, just a statement that if he had actually been any poorer, he would have been playing in the VFL side.

However, as I've said many times on Demonland, the team's capatin doesn't have to be its best player. It has to be someone who is guaranteed to be in the team's best 22 when everyone is available but more importantly has to show leadership on and off the field. (In my opinion, showing leadership on field was not that important until they changed the rule about runners being on the ground). Off field leadership includes stuff we see - such as media interviews - as well as things we would have no idea about (setting training standards, meeting/greeting sponsors, setting professional standards, working with the younger players, etc). As Jones in 2020 could not possibly be guaranteed a spot in the best 22 and as neither Jones or Viney are good media performers, I don't think either should be captain.

Getting back to the point of this thread, how a player goes in the Brownlow is no indicator of whether they should be captain or not. Low vote numbers mean just as much as high vote numbers (does anyone believe Dustin Martin would be a good captain?)

The Brownlow Count is here nor there. But for both our Leaders, play 43 Games out of 44 to fare as low as they did, does tell a story. They had no impact

Simple as that

Not Good enough. And the fact we have signed Jones for another year, I find amazing (He should have retired after 2017) Remember that limp showing against the Filth? “ We will learn from this performance”.... But of course he bleeds Red & Blue, I have to keep reminding myself of that...

We finished 17th for good reason 

Lack of Leadership

 

3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We finished 17th for good reason 

Lack of Leadership we weren't good enough...

 

 

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

 We finished 17th for good reason 

"You earn everything you get in this game." 

 

Geez this clip sticks in my craw.

14 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

"You earn everything you get in this game." 

 

Geez this clip sticks in my craw.

Thanks Fork. I hadn’t seen that before. Just reinforces that 2019 was a complete waste. Nothing was learnt and carried on from 2018

Leadership voids...

21 minutes ago, rjay said:

 

Why you do not value leadership I will never understand. 

We were good enough, but our attitude towards it was all wrong. So we Failed

22 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Is it just me or is the Brownlow losing its relevance? It’ll just go to the midfielder who had the most amount of disposals.

Something in this Ethan. Average disposals for the top 5 - Fyfe 29.2, Dangerfield 27.1, Cripps 28.1, Neale 30.9, T Kelly 25.4

Neale would have won it on this basis if they had the home crowd factor that Freo enjoy.

1 hour ago, drysdale demon said:

All clubs have any misses, I still stand by my post that no one on this site could do a better job than the recruiting teams for any club

It would be just about impossible to do worse.

13 hours ago, america de cali said:

Viney - 21 games for 2 votes

Jones -  22 games for 0 votes.

And....?

 

26 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Why you do not value leadership I will never understand. 

We were good enough, but our attitude towards it was all wrong. So we Failed

Amazing 'SWYL'...nowhere did I say I don't value leadership and I've often stated I don't think Viney is the man to lead the club forward.

...but what is more amazing is that you seem to want to use the Brownlow votes as an indication of the leadership of the club yet you don't seem to want to use the AFL ladder as the means to value the list.

The AFL ladder says we are 17th, that says we are not very good.

It's a pretty definitive result whichever way you want to slice it.

In 2019 we weren't good enough to finish higher than 17th, that's why we finished 17th...

Amazing acceptance speech by Fyfe......Very impressive human & sounds like an even more impressive captain.

Didn't throw anyone under the bus & acknowledged a couple of players who assisted in him playing his natural game.

If I was in charge at the MFC, I would be dropping everything to acquire Fyfe of someone with similar traits & beliefs to change our culture & lead our boys.

It all starts at the top.

 

2 hours ago, drysdale demon said:

All clubs have any misses, I still stand by my post that no one on this site could do a better job than the recruiting teams for any club

That’s a big call. You are saying that amateurs on DL, would not do a better job than fully paid, resourced, recruiting teams, who spend ALL their working life, for up to two years at a time, studying and assessing young footballers as to their possible future ability in the AFL.

Let me go out on a limb like you just did. I say that most posters on  DL, could not do brain surgery, as well as Australia’s leading Neurosurgeons.

 

2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Let me go out on a limb like you just did. I say that most posters on  DL, could not do brain surgery, as well as Australia’s leading Neurosurgeons.

 I reckon there would be a few who would suggest the could.

1 hour ago, Jara said:

It would be just about impossible to do worse.

Yeah sure

3 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

 I reckon there would be a few who would suggest the could.

And I could suggest a few patients they could try brain surgery on.

2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

And I could suggest a few patients they could try brain surgery on.

We could go across court all day long on this.

1 hour ago, rjay said:

Amazing 'SWYL'...nowhere did I say I don't value leadership and I've often stated I don't think Viney is the man to lead the club forward.

...but what is more amazing is that you seem to want to use the Brownlow votes as an indication of the leadership of the club yet you don't seem to want to use the AFL ladder as the means to value the list.

The AFL ladder says we are 17th, that says we are not very good.

It's a pretty definitive result whichever way you want to slice it.

In 2019 we weren't good enough to finish higher than 17th, that's why we finished 17th...

Yes I agree, it happened because our LEADERSHIP was Putrid on and off field. 

Leadership doesn’t lie. 

I am interested in the Brownlow results because the Winners of the Award ALWAYS come from The Midfield in the modern era. Both our Captains played all season and played in the Midfield 

Can I make it any more straight forward?

You May think Jones and Viney were great in 2019, but i believe they were a major reason we crashed out

Gus not getting a vote says it all for me.

2019 was such a waste.

2020 needs to be a big year.

A few things stuck out for me last night. Firstly, Fyfe is an extraordinary talent but is also just as impressive off the field. When he spoke about preparation and dedication to the 'craft' of leadership, it was hard not to reflect on where we're at as a club in respect to this. Secondly, he was number 20 in the draft. His journey was not a simple one but it reinforces that the elite of our game are not often the number one draft picks. Finally, what I wouldn't give for us to find an out and out midfield star like him....just one in my lifetime.

37 minutes ago, DSP said:

Gus not getting a vote says it all for me.

2019 was such a waste.

2020 needs to be a big year.

yeah agree DSP.....He's wasn't the Lone Ranger though.

4 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Thanks Fork. I hadn’t seen that before. Just reinforces that 2019 was a complete waste. Nothing was learnt and carried on from 2018

Leadership voids...

They posted this clip during the pre-season and have to admit got me excited for the year when watching.
Then to produce what they did ....... "Whos fight , Our fight!" 
Pffft.

Edited September 24, 20195 yr by Fork 'em

19 hours ago, dees189227 said:

I thought it was a black tie event so why does Danger think he can rock up in a red velvet jacket? 

Figjam

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

That’s a big call. You are saying that amateurs on DL, would not do a better job than fully paid, resourced, recruiting teams, who spend ALL their working life, for up to two years at a time, studying and assessing young footballers as to their possible future ability in the AFL.

And yet often get it so wrong.
These people are like weather men.

Does 50years experience watching the Top level count?

1 hour ago, drysdale demon said:

 I reckon there would be a few who would suggest the could.

 

1 hour ago, drysdale demon said:

We could go across court all day long on this.

Called out again?

Wanna borrow my shovel?