On 10/09/2019 at 10:44, Earl Hood said:

Two captains who played most of our games this year in the midfield plus Gawn, then add Lewis down back and up forward and cameos from Lever and May and surely TMac qualifies as a mature leader up forward. But this wasn’t enough leadership to overcome the reduced number of instructions from the coaches via the runners? It may have been a negative compared to last year but really what are our leaders doing?

Would runners have helped our set shot inaccuracies in front of goal? Or reduced our missed 25m passes to leading forwards? Handballs to players feet and all the other basic skill errors we witnessed all year. Not convinced about this excuse. 

It's not about messages delivered from the coaches so much as onfield coaching, ensuring players are positioning themselves correctly, being mindful of their opponents positioning and ensuring they keep the correct options at front of mind. The AFL wanted to remove runners as they didn't like then being infield coaches but the thing is the more inexperienced teams (of which we are one) would be impacted by this more than the experienced teams.

  On 10/09/2019 at 13:01, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Is it, though? Are we expected to automatically assume that because a former assistant coach made the statement it must be true? He might be wrong. After all, if that was the problem, and the coaches were aware of it, why wasn't it fixed? 

It wasn't THE problem, it was a contributing factor to how things turned out. Why do people seem to find it so difficult to consider a multitude of factors impacting our performance this season? It was a perfect storm of everything that could go wrong going wrong. It was a bad season but it won't define this playing or coaching group.

Edited September 11, 20195 yr by Dr. Gonzo

  On 10/09/2019 at 20:22, praha said:

Funny. I'm doing a leadership course at work at the moment. It is the educational equivalent of having someone masturbate into your ear.

Whenever these things come up I always try and find some way to get out of it. Generally by explaining that I have actual critical work that needs to be done instead of participating in a corporate bukkake session.

  On 10/09/2019 at 22:22, monoccular said:

 

Manifestly we need to engage a focus group of committed stakeholders  to progress ideas then set up workshops to actively implement the new direction  consistent with these new values as conveyed by our updated modern  mission statement! 

And then do it all again in 18 months.

  On 11/09/2019 at 02:35, Macca said:

I didn't read it that nor might anyone else

It looked like you were quite clearly talking about Carlton.  You didn't mention Melbourne at all

I consider myself sternly admonished.

My point was that Judd brought good qualities to Carlton, and as soon as he left, they (CFC) were useless again.

My point, continued, was that the same would happen to the mighty MFC. An injection of spine and nous that would come and go like a sugar high. Cross, Vince, Lewis brought good qualities but came too late in their careers for it to "stick". I really don't know how leadership qualities could be lastingly implanted into a culture, but it won't be from any one player. It will take waves, overlapping generations of player careers. And almost needless to say, against a backdrop of onfield success.

 

  On 11/09/2019 at 02:35, Macca said:

Too quick with the whole Judd/Carlton supporter-hat-on supporter-speak. 

No idea what you mean by this but it probably doesn't matter now.

  On 11/09/2019 at 13:00, Mazer Rackham said:

My point was that Judd brought good qualities to Carlton, and as soon as he left, they (CFC) were useless again.

My point, continued, was that the same would happen to the mighty MFC. An injection of spine and nous that would come and go like a sugar high. Cross, Vince, Lewis brought good qualities but came too late in their careers for it to "stick". I really don't know how leadership qualities could be lastingly implanted into a culture, but it won't be from any one player. It will take waves, overlapping generations of player careers. And almost needless to say, against a backdrop of onfield success.

I'm a great believer in pure talent ... without pure talent,  none of the rest of all things football matter.

And the more talented players a club has the more wins a club can get.  So a player like Judd matters even if the acquisition doesn't eventuate in a flag and even if a club regresses after a player like Judd exits.

Carlton needed to add talented players to the Judd acquisition but failed to do so.  But they still played finals because of Judd.

In that same time period we added SFA.  We were crud and irrelevant.  They were a much better team than what we were because of Judd. 

So what that they didn't win a flag ... the whole idea of acquiring Judd was to get better as a football team.  We tried to get him ourselves but the tour of the palatial surroundings of the Junction oval didn't quite cut it.

What I'm really getting at is that our recruiting has often been godawful.  Criminally bad.  It's as if the club doesn't actually know what is required to become a power club.  Maybe they do but it's all a bit too hard.

I rate our list as a B- or C+ moving forward.  We need to add 6 top players to the list over the next 2 off-seasons just to become a regular finals team.  More top players need to be added after that so as to become a genuine contender for the flag on a regular basis.  We're about 10 top players short of premiership material. 

My ideal list is to be as good as the teams that have won multiple flags over the last 2 decades (Bris,  Eagles,  Haw,  Geel & Syd) 

We have to aim for the stars. 

Edited September 11, 20195 yr by Macca

I may still hoping we can create a new model. Our young list was just too young. But we have now had a chance to expose the really underdone to the big time ( and found a few,Fritsch,Petty, Hore, Sparrow and a few others ) who now know what they need to do. Weed was really just too light and needed another season to grow into a heavier model. We have a good collection of heavier bodies nowTmac, May, Lever, with the Trac Oliver, Brayshaw young talented but no longer a surprise to opponents, but they are talented enough to lift and with players around them providing space and support they can take the next step and provide a solid core. Towering above them all Max with Pruess to provide a cut out support tapman. Jones can provide visible evidence of how hard it can be and instil the required passion even if he spends most time at Casey unless he earns it.

Goodwin doesn't play favourites and uses the whole squad based on the solid core having rotational support and maybe even rest, depending on the opposition.

Well that's all it takes blind optimism. I hope that the draft is used for future consolidation and not a messiah and we can pick up someone who will support our existing and not create a new schism between the group who should now be embarrassed and hungry to return to the top echelon in the league.

We all deserve better than 17th

  On 10/09/2019 at 22:24, Cam Schwab's Whiteboard said:

Didn't this team finish 4th last year?
I know Rawlings said that the Runners are just one of a number of things that went wrong, but the implication is one of:

1) The team didn't know how to play last year and were coached on-field through their run of good form at the end

2) The team caught lightening in a bottle at the end of last year and the Runners simply didn't matter

3) The players have simply forgotten how to play this year and need to be reminded of what to do and when (despite finishing 4th last year)

4) The coaches failed to implement the gameplan properly

 

Any of these tell us that the problem is coaching!! Just another indication of how poor the Football Department has been for a period of time now. (I include the leadership group in that, as part of their role is to assist and coach young players through)

Or

5) with 666 the coaches made significant positional and tactical changes to our game plan, including moving us from a purely zone defense to a combo man on man and zone. Preseason injuries limited our opportunity to practice and ingrain the plan within the squad before the season started and as a young team (close to the youngest in the comp during the first few rounds at least) we didn't pick it up very quickly and, without runners, weren't able to provide on field direction throughout the game. 

  On 12/09/2019 at 03:38, deanox said:

Or

5) with 666 the coaches made significant positional and tactical changes to our game plan, including moving us from a purely zone defense to a combo man on man and zone. Preseason injuries limited our opportunity to practice and ingrain the plan within the squad before the season started and as a young team (close to the youngest in the comp during the first few rounds at least) we didn't pick it up very quickly and, without runners, weren't able to provide on field direction throughout the game. 

good point but a thinking coaching team would have designated one player from each group.. back, mids, forward etc to be responsible for on field enforcement of the gameplan.

Doesn't need to be the captains but more the players who have some tactical sense.

You also have to remember that with four players on the bench rotating constantly that messages aren't too hard to get out.

Smacks of yet another lame excuse to me.

Didn't know the Dee's where the only team that didn't have a runner this year!

so many cop outs! 

  On 12/09/2019 at 03:38, deanox said:

Or

5) with 666 the coaches made significant positional and tactical changes to our game plan, including moving us from a purely zone defense to a combo man on man and zone. Preseason injuries limited our opportunity to practice and ingrain the plan within the squad before the season started and as a young team (close to the youngest in the comp during the first few rounds at least) we didn't pick it up very quickly and, without runners, weren't able to provide on field direction throughout the game. 

Maybe, but then why are all the coaches going?

  On 11/09/2019 at 12:39, Dr. Gonzo said:

Whenever these things come up I always try and find some way to get out of it. Generally by explaining that I have actual critical work that needs to be done instead of participating in a corporate bukkake session.

I googled that. Perhaps I shouldn't have....

  On 13/09/2019 at 07:32, jnrmac said:

I googled that. Perhaps I shouldn't have....

Sorry mate, my posts will come with a content warning in future ?

The majority of other teams found a way to play 6,6,6... wtf didn’t the mfc????

  On 12/09/2019 at 11:46, Cam Schwab's Whiteboard said:

Maybe, but then why are all the coaches going?

Unfortunately  they all aren't 

  On 14/09/2019 at 02:21, beelzebub said:

Unfortunately  they all aren't 

Patience Grasshopper ? 

  On 12/09/2019 at 03:43, Diamond_Jim said:

good point but a thinking coaching team would have designated one player from each group.. back, mids, forward etc to be responsible for on field enforcement of the gameplan.

Doesn't need to be the captains but more the players who have some tactical sense.

You also have to remember that with four players on the bench rotating constantly that messages aren't too hard to get out.

Smacks of yet another lame excuse to me.

Good point.

With Lever out, I would have picked May, Lewis or Jetta as player from the back 50 to do this. 

TMac or Melksham would have been my pick for a forward 50 leader. 

In the midfield you'd expect Jones and Viney to do the job, but neither are really leaders and Viney struggled with his own game this year. But given the wings are usually the structural players in the midfield, maybe we should have selected KK, Stretch or Salem to organize the midfield?

 

Who do you think the coaches should have picked for these roles preseason?

 

 

  On 14/09/2019 at 06:12, deanox said:

Good point.

With Lever out, I would have picked May, Lewis or Jetta as player from the back 50 to do this. 

TMac or Melksham would have been my pick for a forward 50 leader. 

In the midfield you'd expect Jones and Viney to do the job, but neither are really leaders and Viney struggled with his own game this year. But given the wings are usually the structural players in the midfield, maybe we should have selected KK, Stretch or Salem to organize the midfield?

 

Who do you think the coaches should have picked for these roles preseason?

 

 

Jesus fair old holiday you've been on Ox!

  On 14/09/2019 at 06:12, deanox said:

Good point.

With Lever out, I would have picked May, Lewis or Jetta as player from the back 50 to do this. 

TMac or Melksham would have been my pick for a forward 50 leader. 

In the midfield you'd expect Jones and Viney to do the job, but neither are really leaders and Viney struggled with his own game this year. But given the wings are usually the structural players in the midfield, maybe we should have selected KK, Stretch or Salem to organize the midfield?

 

Who do you think the coaches should have picked for these roles preseason?

 

 

Interesting question and it immediately raises who in each line is the tactics man.

Backs... May or Lewis or Salem

Forwards.... Petracca but definitely Melksham if fit

Mids.... Because we have co-captains the strange thing is that perhaps it could not be either of them. (one or the other would be put out.) Does Brayshaw have the tactical nouse

  On 14/09/2019 at 06:32, dazzledavey36 said:

Jesus fair old holiday you've been on Ox!

Haha it would have been a great season to sleep through!

  On 14/09/2019 at 06:58, Diamond_Jim said:

Interesting question and it immediately raises who in each line is the tactics man.

Backs... May or Lewis or Salem

Forwards.... Petracca but definitely Melksham if fit

Mids.... Because we have co-captains the strange thing is that perhaps it could not be either of them. (one or the other would be put out.) Does Brayshaw have the tactical nouse

It's hard enough to work out who could have done the job assuming everyone was available, let alone knowing the injuries we had.

To me this exercise should demonstrate why we need to give some leeway to Goodwin for 2019. We're a young,  inexperienced side, lacking leaders, who had significant injuries before and during the season, while trying to accomodate major tactical rule changes (666 and runners).

I'm not saying "free ride", but I am saying we should recognize just how out off the ordinary these circumstances were, and how the different issues all compounded together, affecting our attempts to navigate the challenges. 

 

  On 13/09/2019 at 07:32, jnrmac said:

I googled that. Perhaps I shouldn't have....

Maybe  it would be better, and safer, to goggle it rather than google it?

  On 14/09/2019 at 06:12, deanox said:

Good point.

With Lever out, I would have picked May, Lewis or Jetta as player from the back 50 to do this. 

TMac or Melksham would have been my pick for a forward 50 leader. 

In the midfield you'd expect Jones and Viney to do the job, but neither are really leaders and Viney struggled with his own game this year. But given the wings are usually the structural players in the midfield, maybe we should have selected KK, Stretch or Salem to organize the midfield?

 

Who do you think the coaches should have picked for these roles preseason?

 

 

Perhaps the fact that most of these were out for much of the season was also a factor in our inconsistency?

Edited September 15, 20195 yr by monoccular

  On 15/09/2019 at 06:13, monoccular said:

Maybe  it would be better, and safer, to goggle it rather than google it?

Perhaps the fact that most of these were out for much of the season was also a factor in our inconsistency?

I think if you read back through the quoted posts my point was that the it didn't matter what the coaches did this year (ie what Plan B they had), circumstances conspired against us.

 

Change to 666?

1) Bring in a lock down defender (May): injured.

2) Bring in a running wing (KK): injured.

3) Invent new match tactics/plan: post season surgeries mean no preseason match practice. Key injuries (tall forwards and our best i50 delivery in Melksham) cruel any advantages of 666.

4) Tracking young players new tactics plan: Change in "runner" rule, making it hard for coaches to instruct young side. 

5) Implement intensive leadership training with players/ line leaders to upskill on field communication: key players get injured.

6) Poor on field performance? Injuries mean there are limited options for "plan B" (meaning alternative players/positions).

 

 

 

 

  On 10/09/2019 at 12:27, Watts the matter said:

You have got to be kidding.

Why? because he points fingers? because he can string a sentence together in the media.

He has done nothing as a player and should focus on earning his spot in the team and justifying his salary before anything ridiculous like this happens.

Agreed. Obviously performed very well at the Crows. Has done nothing of any consequence In the red n’ blue thus far, let alone earned a captaincy.