I think some people are missing the point. MFC pays market value for its players. That way the players can choose to leave if they value money over playing for our club. If Hawthorn want to pay more than Frost may be worth then so be it. He is no Lever or May. Every player needs to earn big contracts.

Still haven’t heard what hawks are offering? 3 years? 4 years?? Is it $450-$500k a year?

Assume we need to clear $$ for Langdon, Tomlinson and Elliott and any $$ rise for Frost is not within plans.  

9 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Frosty. The wild Bull whom Clarkson will see the potential Goodwin couldn’t. 

Meanwhile we persist with Oscar....

Usually on your side, but remind me of what Hawthorn managed to get out of Frawley, Fitzy, Cheney, Cam Bruce once at their club? 

Not a whole lot. 

Edited October 3, 20195 yr by stevethemanjordan

Add me to the list of people that think trading Frost is a [censored] stupid idea.

Because it is.

15 hours ago, demonstone said:

Posters still seem to be haggling over the parson's nose, however.

Prithee, what is the origin of this magnificent turn of phrase?

Edited October 3, 20195 yr by Superunknown
grammar

1 minute ago, Stretch Johnson said:

Add me to the list of people that think trading Frost is a [censored] stupid idea.

Because it is.

Happy to. 

It's a stupid list. 

So the mastermind Clarkson will turn frosty into a gun defender because he can see the diamonond beneath the pyrite.

Given the hawks are so brilliant and sporting untapped talent and don't make mistakes what will we take from a decision not to go after frosty?

It is futile to argue who has Clarkson improved/turned into a star.  Probably very few.  Silk purse/cows ear and all that.  Anyway, n-oone knows and it matters little.

Regardless of how well Frosty played this year he is not in our best 22 because we have 3 regular and 1 back up Tall ahead of him.  No room at the inn.  I just wish Mahoney hadn't made it so obvious as it effectively talks down his trade value.

2 hours ago, Thehardtackler said:

I think some people are missing the point. MFC pays market value for its players. That way the players can choose to leave if they value money over playing for our club. If Hawthorn want to pay more than Frost may be worth then so be it. He is no Lever or May. Every player needs to earn big contracts.

Don’t agree with this at all. I’ve often said I’d love to know what our players are on, comparing our list to others we are clearly paying overs for sone and/or paying based on potential, or because of a feeling that we owe someone. We’ve done that for years now.

2 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Usually on your side, but remind me of what Hawthorn managed to get out of Frawley, Fitzy, Cheney, Cam Bruce once at their club? 

Not a whole lot. 

But Frost has just had a strong year. We all saw it. But our Football Department rate Omac higher, who had a complete shocker and had to have “Time Out” for extra training through the Season. 

Meanwhile 4 time Premiership Coach Clarkson has backed himself to get a good defender out of Frost

it doesn’t sit right with me

31 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

But Frost has just had a strong year. We all saw it. But our Football Department rate Omac higher, who had a complete shocker and had to have “Time Out” for extra training through the Season. 

Meanwhile 4 time Premiership Coach Clarkson has backed himself to get a good defender out of Frost

it doesn’t sit right with me

Frawley had an AA year with us.

Hasn't got anywhere near that level for Hawthorn.

It's just a furphy. Aside from Burgoyne and O'Meara who are completely different cases due to their injuries, the Hawks target players to play to their system rather than 'turn them into' stars. 

Honestly if Frost ends up leaving, you can bet your bottom dollar that Clarkson will give him even less of a license to run up the field being a headless chook.

I think we've got to look at what we'll net as a result of losing Frost because the possibilities are many.

If we're lucky enough to receive a second-round pick, it could help us with the Langdon trade or package up with pick 3 to move up the order or many other possibilities. We're in a good spot and his value is at an all time high this year.

He's really no big loss. None of the top end teams have a completely polarising player in their back half who consistently makes the same skill and decision making errors over and over.

Edited October 4, 20195 yr by stevethemanjordan

Frosty’s greatest current asset is his breakout runs from Defence, as May’s a better gorilla minder, Lever’s a better intercept marker.

Problem is, and the reason I’d suggest Frost isn’t valued as highly as some here think he should be, is that his chaotic runs while spectacular and sometimes effective, are against the teams desired way of playing because they are chaotic for us as well.

May, Lever and I’d suggest OMac play to the plan with ball in hand and that’s what has them valued more. 

Just as Jack Watts was exited for his inability to play to the team standards, same with Frosty..

Edited October 4, 20195 yr by PaulRB

11 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

Frosty’s greatest current asset is his breakout runs from Defence, as May’s a better gorilla minder, Lever’s a better intercept marker.

Problem is, and the reason I’d suggest Frost isn’t valued as highly as some here think he should be, is that his chaotic runs while spectacular and sometimes effective, are against the teams desired way of playing because they are chaotic for us as well.

May, Lever and I’d suggest OMac play to the plan with ball in hand and that’s what has them valued more. 

Just as Jack Watts was exited for his inability to play to the team standards, same with Frosty..

People are also forgetting that May is quite quick. They're all panicking about the loss of Frost's pace, but if May gets himself 100% this offseason they will forget all about him and start to witness an elite, quick, big defender who's also a great kick.

Also,

Joel Smith could very easily play the same role as Frost.

Whilst also raw, he is younger and already has a better footy IQ imo. 

Similar athletic ability and I'd prefer him playing defence than forward.

25 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Frawley had an AA year with us.

Hasn't got anywhere near that level for Hawthorn.

It's just a furphy. Aside from Burgoyne and O'Meara who are completely different cases due to their injuries, the Hawks target players to play to their system rather than 'turn them into' stars. 

Honestly if Frost ends up leaving, you can bet your bottom dollar that Clarkson will give him even less of a license to run up the field being a headless chook.

I think we've got to look at what we'll net as a result of losing Frost because the possibilities are many.

If we're lucky enough to receive a second-round pick, it could help us with the Langdon trade or package up with pick 3 to move up the order or many other possibilities. We're in a good spot and his value is at an all time high this year.

He's really no big loss. None of the top end teams have a completely polarising player in their back half who consistently makes the same skill and decision making errors over and over.

Not disagreeing with any of that

But we rate Oscar over Frost, that is what astounds me. 

Omac was awful this year. 

I also rate Frost’s durability over Jake Lever’s wonky knees. 

Lever goes down again, there is a huge hole ? 

If he does command $650k at Hawthorn ... the flip side is that he is worth a second round pick albeit a late one .

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Not disagreeing with any of that

But we rate Oscar over Frost, that is what astounds me. 

Omac was awful this year. 

I also rate Frost’s durability over Jake Lever’s wonky knees. 

Lever goes down again, there is a huge hole ? 

It's about what he'd net us. 

Oscar is worth nothing on the trade table.

And there's some worth there with Frost after the year he's had.

Who knows, maybe we've got an eye on another mature key defender in the rookie or pre-season draft.

Along with Oscar, Petty and Joel Smith I think we'll be okay.

I similarly worry about Lever's body though.

Edited October 4, 20195 yr by stevethemanjordan

18 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

It's about what he'd net us. 

Oscar is worth nothing on the trade table.

And there's some worth there with Frost after the year he's had.

Who knows, maybe we've got an eye on another mature key defender in the rookie pr pre-season draft.

Along with Oscar, Petty and Joel Smith I think we'll be okay.

I similarly worry about Lever's body though.

But that is the Crux. Oscar is worth nothing. He is a liability. and we are giving him a key position role. 

Whorethorn get a free hit (again)

Keeping Omac (28 votes in the B&f) is a far bigger risk than Frost

Edited October 4, 20195 yr by Sir Why You Little

4 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Happy to. 

It's a stupid list. 

Righto.

Let's revisit this in 12 months.

Edited October 4, 20195 yr by Guest

4 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

But that is the Crux. Oscar is worth nothing. He is a liability. and we are giving him a key position role. 

Whorethorn get a free hit (again)

Keeping Omac (28 votes in the B&f) is a far bigger risk than Frost

Oscar is a zone player, not a one on one defender. With May and Lever firing he'll play his role as third defender just fine. Not great, nor elite but capable. He rarely costs us unless we ask him to play outside of his capabilities/ strengths. 

 

Frost constantly ruined our "connection". His spectacular runs cause all others to get caught out of position. He costs us because his strengths don't suit our plan. 

 

Frost isn't good enough for us to change our game plan for,  so if he won't adapt, he goes. 

17 minutes ago, deanox said:

Oscar is a zone player, not a one on one defender. With May and Lever firing he'll play his role as third defender just fine. Not great, nor elite but capable. He rarely costs us unless we ask him to play outside of his capabilities/ strengths. 

 

Frost constantly ruined our "connection". His spectacular runs cause all others to get caught out of position. He costs us because his strengths don't suit our plan. 

 

Frost isn't good enough for us to change our game plan for,  so if he won't adapt, he goes. 

Also Omac has a contract for 2020. And frosty does not. 

I love frost and thought his 2018 season he barely missed a kick in the finals (disposal was awesome). But Frosts weaknesses and reason we are letting him go are due to his ability or inability to read the play. Every now and then he doesn't read the play and loses his man (ball watching) or goes and leaves his man but doesn't impact the contest. He also is a poor uncontested mark in games. The amount of times he comes 3rd in or another defender blocks for him to mark and he drops the easiest of marks was poor compared to other defender on our list (even omac). But frost can run and take a screamer across the pack in the next effort (hence frustrating). I think the coaching group wants stability and consistency from the backline.

I don't see smith going down back. May is the direct replacement and upgrade on Frost for speed. lever and petty for height and intercept marking and Omac as back-up if someone get's injured.

5 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Also,

Joel Smith could very easily play the same role as Frost.

Whilst also raw, he is younger and already has a better footy IQ imo. 

Similar athletic ability and I'd prefer him playing defence than forward.

Agree. As i posted a few days ago i really rate Smith. He has something. 

Personally i prefer him up forward but agree he could play in defence. 

The one that will step up for us significantly (and we started to see a bit late in the year) will be Petty imo. Remember, he's very young and another pre-season should make a world of difference.

Sorry if this has been asked or answered, but I am currently out of the country, but did someone from the actual football club state that they rate Omac higher than Frost?

i would have to assume that someone did, as having read some of the comments above, people keep complaining that the football department do!