Welcome to Demonland: Taj Woewodin

[Demonland 71,626]

Full Interview

[rpfc 28,263]

20 hours ago, one_demon said:

Anyone know where Taj would of been taken if not a father-son?  I'm guessing in the thirties.

I doubt it. If that was the case, another club would have made us pay something for him.

He is what the scoreboard says he is. A late selection.

Good luck to him.

[Sydney_Demon 1,175]

On 11/18/2021 at 7:49 PM, FritschyBusiness said:

Taj has only had eyes for the Dees. Has said publicly since he was about 14 his goal was to play for us.
That puts other clubs off, in the same way no other clubs are talking about picking up Nick Daicos or Sam Darcy this year.

I agree entirely. He was never going to be a high draft pick, late second round at best, and another club would be fairly courageous (especially a Victorian club, given he lives in WA) to pick him knowing that he wanted to go to Melbourne and Melbourne would likely match the bid. It's not just that. Clubs, especially for lower draft picks, don't research every available player and will only pick the players they have researched. Probably a bit different for higher draft picks but even Daicos slipped to 4 because clubs knew he was going to Collingwood regardless.         

[DeeZone 9,693]

Woewodin, Archer and Burgoyne all went late this draft went very deep after top 10-15 players, hence Howes at 39 and so much talent still available into late 40’s so why bother trying to pick up a kid who has already nominated their team of choice. Whereas teams had a crack at Daicos and Darcy to make sure they didn’t go cheap. I was pleasantly surprised to see Mac Andrew go at 5, Suns must put him in the LJ category.!!

[durango 2,005]

Taj has enough expectation put on him when your dad played 200 games and won a brownlow, he just has to put his head down listen to the best development coach in the AFL (Mark Williams) and practice the skills required to be an AFL player.

The fact that he was selected at 65 in the main draft will have no bearing on his future, only skill to execute on field at the highest level, attitude to training and carrying out the coaches instructions in games.

[Sydney_Demon 1,175]

On 11/26/2021 at 12:43 PM, mo64 said:

If Goody or any first time coach took over from Neeld, and had Roos' record of finishing 17th, 13th, 11th and lost their final game by 111 points, they would have been sacked. If the subsequent coach took us to a flag, would you be giving the plaudits to that coach, as you are with Roos?

 

Absolute crap imo. In 2013 Melbourne won 2 games and finished with a percentage of 54.1%. Under Roos over the next 3 years we improved to 4 wins (68.4%), 7 wins (77.0%) and 10 wins (97.6%). Petracca & Brayshaw were drafted at the end of 2014, Oliver at the end of 2015, so Roos was working with a considerably inferior undeveloped team to that inherited by Goodie. The reality is we were an outside chance of making the 8 after Round 21 of 2016 and had a record of 10-10 with a percentage of 104.8%, having just beaten Port Adelaide in Adelaide by 40 points. We then had a disappointing loss to Carlton and that horrible loss to Geelong in the last round. No real excuse for such a poor performance but we had a young team, were playing in Geelong and Geelong were 3rd going into that game and had everything to play for whilst we had nothing. I agree that Roos was given more time than a young coach would have been, but he accepted the role on that basis and there was no quick fix. Frankly, any coach, old or young, who developed the team from where Melbourne was at the end of 2013 to where it was at the end of 2016 would have been regarded as incredibly successful. One bad loss doesn't mean you're a failure. Should Goodie have been sacked after the Prelim loss in 2018? Of course not.

I'm not sure why this comes down to a Roos vs Goodwin vs Goodwin's assistant coaches argument. No coach is perfect. Roos and his coaching/development team did a great job in changing the losing culture and turning the club around (and Goodwin was probably an important part of that in 2015-16). I think it's reasonable to say a number of people contributed to the 2021 Premiership over the period 2014-2021. Goodwin is a Premiership Coach, so let's leave it at that, without glorifying or diminishing the contributions by him or any other individual.

Similarly, everyone seems to now be jumping on the bandwagon regarding Jason Taylor's genius. Notwithstanding Tim Lamb's role and the contribution of any number of others in that process over the years, there's an element of luck there. Petracca would be at St Kilda if they picked him ahead of Paddy McCartin and we picked Mills ahead of Oliver but the Swans matched our bid. Was that all part of the genius of our recruiting team? Again, not criticising Taylor or ignoring our draft success since 2015 but let's get a bit of balance on these things.

 

[Sydney_Demon 1,175]

12 minutes ago, durango said:

Taj has enough expectation put on him when your dad played 200 games and won a brownlow, he just has to put his head down listen to the best development coach in the AFL (Mark Williams) and practice the skills required to be an AFL player.

The fact that he was selected at 65 in the main draft will have no bearing on his future, only skill to execute on field at the highest level, attitude to training and carrying out the coaches instructions in games.

Melbourne could easily have taken Woewodin as a Rookie which was widely-reported pre-draft as a possibility (not sure at that stage whether Melbourne had that pick set aside for Judd McVee). Instead they drafted him at 65 so he gets better pay and a 2-year contract which surely says something. 99% of draftees get the standard contract, whether they go at 1 or 101. Melbourne traded away picks 43 & 51 for future picks. If Woewodin wasn't father-son, who knows? We might have taken him at 43. Melbourne knew they would get him at 65 (if some other club picked him ahead of that we would still have used 65 plus change).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the fact he was the last pick on Draft Night 2 shouldn't be seen as a negative. He starts equal with all other non-rookie drafts.     

[Fat Tony 5,220]

13 minutes ago, Sydney_Demon said:

Melbourne could easily have taken Woewodin as a Rookie which was widely-reported pre-draft as a possibility (not sure at that stage whether Melbourne had that pick set aside for Judd McVee). Instead they drafted him at 65 so he gets better pay and a 2-year contract which surely says something. 99% of draftees get the standard contract, whether they go at 1 or 101. Melbourne traded away picks 43 & 51 for future picks. If Woewodin wasn't father-son, who knows? We might have taken him at 43. Melbourne knew they would get him at 65 (if some other club picked him ahead of that we would still have used 65 plus change).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the fact he was the last pick on Draft Night 2 shouldn't be seen as a negative. He starts equal with all other non-rookie drafts.     

I think the first round salaries are a bit higher.

Taj will need to put on a lot of muscle by the look of it and is a long way off it in terms of size. Hopefully he has a few more cms of growth as well.

[Sydney_Demon 1,175]

4 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

I think the first round salaries are a bit higher.

Taj will need to put on a lot of muscle by the look of it and is a long way off it in terms of size. Hopefully he has a few more cms of growth as well.

Thanks for clarifying the salaries position. Can anyone advise that the various salaries are?

Taj looks a reasonable size. He's listed at 77kg which is 5kg more than Judd McVee at the same height and only 2kg less than Blake Howes who's 8cm taller. Jacob van Rooyen is listed at 194cm & 88kg and looks huge compared to other Under-19s but if that's right he's very light compared to say Tom McDonald who is also 194cm but 100kg. These heights/weights I got from the Rookie Me website so might be a little out of date. 
 

[DeeZone 9,693]

Taj has elite speed, clean hand and can kick equally well on both sides, we have an excellent development team around him and he will be playing VFL footy while he develops, no rush like in the past.!!

[Fat Tony 5,220]

4 minutes ago, Sydney_Demon said:

Thanks for clarifying the salaries position. Can anyone advise that the various salaries are?

Taj looks a reasonable size. He's listed at 77kg which is 5kg more than Judd McVee at the same height and only 2kg less than Blake Howes who's 8cm taller. Jacob van Rooyen is listed at 194cm & 88kg and looks huge compared to other Under-19s but if that's right he's very light compared to say Tom McDonald who is also 194cm but 100kg. These heights/weights I got from the Rookie Me website so might be a little out of date. 
 

The top 20 picks receive $90,000 base, picks 21-40 a base of $82,500 and 40+ receive a base of $80,000.

He does not look 77kg. Even if he takes 2 years to build an AFL body, he will still be ahead of his father in terms of age to play his first game.

[Skuit 10,031]

On 11/26/2021 at 11:18 AM, mo64 said:

I just want to refute this narrative that Paul Roos developed young talent, and changed the club culture. I suggest you listen to a podcast by Dylan Buckley with James Harmes, which was recorded in the week leading up to the GF. Harmes said that when he started at the club, which was the same time as Roos, the young players weren't given any guidance as to how and where they would fit into the senior team. They would just play for Casey and hope they could break in. Now all the young players are given clear guidance as to where they'll fit into the team, and what they need to do to achieve that. Case in point is Jason Taylor coming out and saying Van Rooyan will be developed as a forward.

I'd also suggest you listen to Dylan Buckley's podcast with Max Gawn. It goes for over an hour, and covers a lot about the club. When asked who changed the culture of the club, Max said one word, "Goody". When talking about Roos, Max laughs and says that the players loved it when Roos arrived. After training 9-5 under Neeld, Max says that Roos was a family man, so would leave training at 1PM. So the players would leave after him.

And listening to a recent interview with Goody, the only compliment he gave Roos was to say that he delegated authority.

This narrative that Roos changed the culture, and was a big factor in our flag win, has to stop. 

Just quoting this so that anyone intending to respond to mo64's post hopefully reads it properly before doing so. 

Also, welcome to the club Taj. Drafted higher than your old man!

 

[Demonland 71,626]

[DeeZone 9,693]

Great to hear Shane so proud of Taj and it’s great how the flag bought all our past players together and healed some old wounds. Also mentioned that the WA boys are coming over 1st week of January. Well done Shane and Taj.💕❤️💙

[dazzledavey36 54,285]

 

[Supreme_Demon 3,754]

I'm really looking forward to seeing Taj Woewodin develop for the Casey Demons in the VFL.

The great thing is that he won't get thrown to the wolves and will get plenty of time to mature and develop in the VFL.

Fingers crossed he earns a senior debut in the AFL later this season, but there is absolutely no pressure and it's such a huge asset that we have (my favourite) Mark "Choco" Williams as our development coach!

[58er 6,396]

On 11/29/2021 at 8:44 AM, Sydney_Demon said:

Absolute crap imo. In 2013 Melbourne won 2 games and finished with a percentage of 54.1%. Under Roos over the next 3 years we improved to 4 wins (68.4%), 7 wins (77.0%) and 10 wins (97.6%). Petracca & Brayshaw were drafted at the end of 2014, Oliver at the end of 2015, so Roos was working with a considerably inferior undeveloped team to that inherited by Goodie. The reality is we were an outside chance of making the 8 after Round 21 of 2016 and had a record of 10-10 with a percentage of 104.8%, having just beaten Port Adelaide in Adelaide by 40 points. We then had a disappointing loss to Carlton and that horrible loss to Geelong in the last round. No real excuse for such a poor performance but we had a young team, were playing in Geelong and Geelong were 3rd going into that game and had everything to play for whilst we had nothing. I agree that Roos was given more time than a young coach would have been, but he accepted the role on that basis and there was no quick fix. Frankly, any coach, old or young, who developed the team from where Melbourne was at the end of 2013 to where it was at the end of 2016 would have been regarded as incredibly successful. One bad loss doesn't mean you're a failure. Should Goodie have been sacked after the Prelim loss in 2018? Of course not.

I'm not sure why this comes down to a Roos vs Goodwin vs Goodwin's assistant coaches argument. No coach is perfect. Roos and his coaching/development team did a great job in changing the losing culture and turning the club around (and Goodwin was probably an important part of that in 2015-16). I think it's reasonable to say a number of people contributed to the 2021 Premiership over the period 2014-2021. Goodwin is a Premiership Coach, so let's leave it at that, without glorifying or diminishing the contributions by him or any other individual.

Similarly, everyone seems to now be jumping on the bandwagon regarding Jason Taylor's genius. Notwithstanding Tim Lamb's role and the contribution of any number of others in that process over the years, there's an element of luck there. Petracca would be at St Kilda if they picked him ahead of Paddy McCartin and we picked Mills ahead of Oliver but the Swans matched our bid. Was that all part of the genius of our recruiting team? Again, not criticising Taylor or ignoring our draft success since 2015 but let's get a bit of balance on these things.

 

Your summary of the Taylor/Lamb "genius" is both selective and simplistic.

All you have summarised are two examples of the high selections in the draft and passed both Trac's and Angus as almost leftovers after Paddy McCartins No 1 selection by the Saints.
 

If you consider the situation of a year or two earlier and the resulting constant criticism of non selection of high draft pick Josh Kelly we have had thrown at us  when we selected Christian Salem ( and Roos next in line insistence that Billing's was the next pick in line  and not Kelly ) then we have made excellent choices with Trac and Gus.
 Finally of course this has disappeared since Salo has developed into an A grader in the last two years and of course was a key factor ( in the top 3/4) in the GF. Salo a great choice after all. ( not by Taylor at that stage) 

 
Clarry in 2015 was a vary late high selection ( no 4) coming from back in the pack due to limited football in the last half of the season ( winning the Morrish Medal) and he was selected instead of the long rated No 3 Darcy Parish  virtually in the last days by Taylor after enthusing Roos of his credentials. A "genius " move most of us would consider.

But others such as the 2019 Draft of the big 3 Dogga Kossie and Riv plus 2020 and Bowey have sustained his recently recorded high status in the AFL as a recruiting guru. 

In addition trade selections such as Lever May Langdon Hibberd Melksham and of course BBB have enhanced the Taylor/Lamb dynasty.and our FD acumen along with our confirmation in Flag no 13. 

Plenty of runs on this board Sydney Demon and Jason is not finished yet and Roos always understood he would not be here when that Flag was hoisted last Wednesday.snd your summary there is very realistic and true of both Goody and Roosy's  role in our 2021 triumph. 

Long May Taylor/ Lamb keep the recruits coming! 

 

[Fritta and Turner 4,345]

6 hours ago, 58er said:

Long May Taylor/ Lamb keep the recruits coming! 

Any thoughts on the drafting of talls?  Apart from Jacko our last home grown success was TMc and thats going back awhile.

Or are they too hard to pick so you cherry pick from the other clubs a la Lever/May?

[FireInTheBennelly 4,072]

7 minutes ago, Jontee said:

Any thoughts on the drafting of talls?  Apart from Jacko our last home grown success was TMc and thats going back awhile.

Or are they too hard to pick so you cherry pick from the other clubs a la Lever/May?

Petty? And it's a bit early but I think JVR could end up being a very nice pick up. 

[Fritta and Turner 4,345]

5 minutes ago, FireInTheBennelly said:

Petty? And it's a bit early but I think JVR could end up being a very nice pick up. 

Thx I forgot Petty.  JVR come back in 2/3 years and ask again.

I think perhaps with the Weid we failed our own 'aggression' test.

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

1 hour ago, Jontee said:

Any thoughts on the drafting of talls?  Apart from Jacko our last home grown success was TMc and thats going back awhile.

Or are they too hard to pick so you cherry pick from the other clubs a la Lever/May?

I’m not suddenly going to claim I was a fan but Oscar could play a bit too, he looks set to do well at Carlton. He was a victim of being Tom’s brother and probably needed a fresh start and a kick in the backside.

After a run of failures we’ve largely gone away from speculative talls late or on the rookie list. I’m not sure I fully agree with that tactic but one benefit might be we can focus development coaching on guys who are a chance to play rather than risky projects.

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

I take everything Mark Williams says with a grain of salt but it’s promising for Taj. And if they think he’s ready to step straight in to the Casey engine room as well that’s good news.

Hoping he has a strong debut this weekend. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,605]

From AFL website:

MELBOURNE is in discussions on a new deal for youngster Taj Woewodin as he pushes for an AFL debut.

The versatile youngster is due to come out of contract this season at the end of his standard two-year contract after being drafted at the end of 2021, but is in contract talks for an extension.

A two-year extension would be likely as with the majority of draftees coming out of their initial contract.

[Katrina Dee Fan 3,341]

43 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

From AFL website:

MELBOURNE is in discussions on a new deal for youngster Taj Woewodin as he pushes for an AFL debut.

The versatile youngster is due to come out of contract this season at the end of his standard two-year contract after being drafted at the end of 2021, but is in contract talks for an extension.

A two-year extension would be likely as with the majority of draftees coming out of their initial contract.

Good.  And I hope they debut him soon.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,492]

I was hoping he might have got a look-in last weekend - even as the sub.
Need some youth and energy in the team.