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Small forwards - what are our trading and draft options?

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31 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Ben Keays might be worth discussing.  Had a great 2018 but behind Charlie Cameron.  Now available after Lions delisting.  

Hes not a small forward, and he played 2 games in 2018.

Hes about the same level as JKH and Stretch.   List clogger.

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7 hours ago, JakovichScissorKick said:

Hes not a small forward, and he played 2 games in 2018.

Hes about the same level as JKH and Stretch.   List clogger.

Has kicked 11.14 in 30 games. If he's a forward he's a small one in a scoring sense.

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On 9/27/2019 at 3:18 PM, Bigdeeal said:

I'll throw something out there. Luke Reynolds has just played in the winning Grand Final for Glenelg in the SANFL. (It's been a long, long wait!). He kicked 53.19 for the season and was second to Liam McBean in the SANFL goal kicking. He's a strong mark and doesn't miss too often, particularly in comparison to our woeful kicking this year. (And last year as well. I was rewatching last year's final with the Cats the other day, and even though we won, we kicked something like 10 behinds on the trot! You wouldn't normally get away with that too often.) He was rookied by Carlton in 2014, and I have no idea why they let him go, but maybe he was immature then. He's 24 now, so he's not a spring chicken, but he's not too old to bother with. I reckon he might be worth another go in the big time. This time he might be mature enough to appreciate what he missed out on last time, and grab the opportunity with both hands. Lots of ifs and buts, but it's just a thought. 

Not exactly a small forward but the guy is a dead eye [censored].  The most accurate in any form of professional footy right now.

Has a decent leap on him also.   Wouldn't be dissapointed if we picked him up as a mature rookie outside the draft somehow.   A big step up from much of the chaff on our list at present.

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On 8/31/2019 at 7:19 PM, olisik said:

 

We better be all over this kid, looking to be early 20s pick. Would be [censored] if we pass on him for another Vanilla mid like Sparrow/Spargo/Jordan ect 

WWT Eagles/South Australia | Small Forward
02/06/2001 | 170cm | 68kg

Arguably the most naturally gifted player in the draft, the nephew of Port Adelaide and North Melbourne premiership player Byron, is small in stature but big on X-factor and his ability to do the impossible. He is clean at ground level, has high-level goal sense, and despite being so lightly built, was able to force his way into the Woodville-West Torrens League side courtesy of a massive six-goal game against North Adelaide in the first round of the SANFL Reserves competition. Adds an extra dimension to the South Australian forward line and will be one that could light up the big stage over the next month.

 

 

 

Bump.  Good pick up Oli.

Somewhat wary of a reserves outcome in a secondary league but this bloke might be the ideal small crumbing forward in the draft.

Don't let his height bother you.  The bloke can leap as demonstrated with the cracking speckie about half way through the vid above.  As well as coming 10th in the running vertical jump at the national combine.

Cat like reflexes, reads the crumb beautifuly, super mobile and great balance.  Clean pick ups & lightning finish around the goals.  The ball will be sailing through the goals before half those around him will even know where it is!

Big step up to AFL but looks to have it all.

I'm now switching from Weightman to this guy as our No.1 small forward target.

 

 

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Be great if we had a pick in the 20s.

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Left field, Hayden Ballantyne, subject to a medical. 12mth contract, performance based.

Secondary role; work with the existing/new smalls and develop their craft. If he has to play at Casey and help the young'uns coming through that is fine. We had a list that was one short this year and we played Lewis more as an onfield coach than anything else.

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I am still in hope that Sam Gray registers for DFA after Port offering a reduced contract to him. 2 years should be enough to help us out and with a bit of luck Deakyn Smith will be good enough.

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Put football smarts....with lightning reflexes.  A genuine football brain... with grunt, a bit of nasty and follow up 2nd efforts.  Add to this some class finish around stoppages and in front of the sticks.  Clever unselfish knock ons, amazing agility / awareness in traffic and a super leap for his size ...and what have you got!??  Football's Masiah?   Nope...just lil ol' Kysaiah!

 

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There has been lots of discussion about either taking a small forward with one of our early picks, or splitting picks to gain extra picks in the range where the best small forwards in the draft are expected to fall.

It's widely accepted that drafting ruckmen in the first round is a risky strategy, especially when you consider that many of the best rucks of recent times (eg., Cox, Sandi, Gawn, Mumford, Jolly, Jamar, Jacobs) were taken as late or rookie draft picks.  

Small forwards fall in the same category in my view. The following crumbing forwards have been selected as All Australians in the last decade (a somewhat subjective metric of success, but nonetheless a who's who of gun small forwards):

Charlie Cameron (R) , Michael Walters (53), Eddie Betts (PSD), Cyril Rioli (12), Chad Wingard (6), Hayden Ballantyne (21), Stephen Milne (R), Mark Lecras (37) and Leon Davis (34). Our best recent small forwards, Davey and Garlett, were also taken in the rookie draft. Of the above players, only Rioli and Wingard were taken in the first round, and both were widely regarded as high picks prior to the draft.

History suggests that there will almost certainly be at least a couple of superstars lurking somewhere in the top ten of this draft. We don't need another inside mid, but the next Dangerfield would improve our team a hell of a lot more than a speculative forward with a lower chance of making the grade. Draft for talent - especially in the first couple of rounds - then rookie or trade for needs. Anything else reeks of desperation IMO.

Thoughts?

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18 hours ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

There has been lots of discussion about either taking a small forward with one of our early picks, or splitting picks to gain extra picks in the range where the best small forwards in the draft are expected to fall.

It's widely accepted that drafting ruckmen in the first round is a risky strategy, especially when you consider that many of the best rucks of recent times (eg., Cox, Sandi, Gawn, Mumford, Jolly, Jamar, Jacobs) were taken as late or rookie draft picks.  

Small forwards fall in the same category in my view. The following crumbing forwards have been selected as All Australians in the last decade (a somewhat subjective metric of success, but nonetheless a who's who of gun small forwards):

Charlie Cameron (R) , Michael Walters (53), Eddie Betts (PSD), Cyril Rioli (12), Chad Wingard (6), Hayden Ballantyne (21), Stephen Milne (R), Mark Lecras (37) and Leon Davis (34). Our best recent small forwards, Davey and Garlett, were also taken in the rookie draft. Of the above players, only Rioli and Wingard were taken in the first round, and both were widely regarded as high picks prior to the draft.

History suggests that there will almost certainly be at least a couple of superstars lurking somewhere in the top ten of this draft. We don't need another inside mid, but the next Dangerfield would improve our team a hell of a lot more than a speculative forward with a lower chance of making the grade. Draft for talent - especially in the first couple of rounds - then rookie or trade for needs. Anything else reeks of desperation IMO.

Thoughts?

Confusing; you choose to call  yourself Accepting Mediocrity and then lead off with an above average post.

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Jason Taylor touched on this on RTTD. I get the feeling he was originally in draft them later camp but has seen the success of Dan Rioli and Shai Bolton (amongst others) taken in the first or early 2nd rounds and being incredibly valuable to the team.

I'm not convinced there's one worth taking for out top picks this year but I'd have no issue taking one early if the talent was there.

The best small forwards kick goals, create goals with skills and create goals with defensive pressure. There's a lot of value in that role.

Unfortunately I think we'll be looking at our late pick/s in the draft to pluck a smokey and hopefully we find the right guy.

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if there was a jack higgins type, i'd take him for pick 8.. a kid with passion, speed and dare would be awesome

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While I agree that 'draft for talent' is the mantra for all AFL recruiters, I don't think that means you exclude certain positions. If a small forward (or ruck) is the best talent at our picks then we should draft them.

I'm not sure I can agree that AA selection is the best criteria for small forwards either as very few end up even being chosen given the selectors preference for picking about 18 mids every year.

The other bit I can't agree on is that we should be looking for a draftee that will improve us next year, great if that happens, but that reeks of desperation as much, if not more, than drafting for needs.

In short, 'draft for talent' has to be absolute. You can't say 'draft for talent - unless they're a small forward or ruck'.

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i'm not sold on us trying to take a small forward with our picks. there is nothing to say a mid size player cannot also kick goals. We have a few small guys dont waste a top 10 pick on a 20+ rated player.

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1 hour ago, Rocky said:

if there was a jack higgins type, i'd take him for pick 8.. a kid with passion, speed and dare would be awesome

I guess that's my point - from all reports, there are safer bets available at pick 8. No doubt that kid would be great right now - but there's a real danger in following the latest trend IMO - football changes quickly, and most kids take a long time to develop - this goes without saying. History shows that plenty of clubs have been burned badly by prioritizing perceived needs over talent. At this point, the Jack Higgins type is just as likely to be the next Addam Maric. 

 

16 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

While I agree that 'draft for talent' is the mantra for all AFL recruiters, I don't think that means you exclude certain positions. If a small forward (or ruck) is the best talent at our picks then we should draft them.

I'm not sure I can agree that AA selection is the best criteria for small forwards either as very few end up even being chosen given the selectors preference for picking about 18 mids every year.

The other bit I can't agree on is that we should we looking for a draftee that will improve us next year, great if that happens, but that reeks of desperation as much, if not more, than drafting for needs.

In short, 'draft for talent' has to be absolute. You can't say 'draft for talent - unless they're a small forward or ruck'.

 

Not so much treating playing positions differently as draft picks. Take the surest thing at 3 and 8. If 2 kids are equally rated but only one fills a need, flip a coin - and then take the more highly rated one. By all means get creative and cover immediate needs from the state leagues later in the draft.

 

I agree that AA selection is generally a poor criterion, and many good players (especially non-midfielders) miss out - but it's useful to highlight that there are potentially a few 18 YO future gun small forwards running around that are currently unknown by us youtube experts.

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32 minutes ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

I guess that's my point - from all reports, there are safer bets available at pick 8. No doubt that kid would be great right now - but there's a real danger in following the latest trend IMO - football changes quickly, and most kids take a long time to develop - this goes without saying. History shows that plenty of clubs have been burned badly by prioritizing perceived needs over talent. At this point, the Jack Higgins type is just as likely to be the next Addam Maric. 

 

Not so much treating playing positions differently as draft picks. Take the surest thing at 3 and 8. If 2 kids are equally rated but only one fills a need, flip a coin - and then take the more highly rated one. By all means get creative and cover immediate needs from the state leagues later in the draft.

 

I agree that AA selection is generally a poor criterion, and many good players (especially non-midfielders) miss out - but it's useful to highlight that there are potentially a few 18 YO future gun small forwards running around that are currently unknown by us youtube experts.

and who might the next 'brodie grundy' be? look, i don't think there is a small forward worth taking really.. at least in the first round. so, we would be better off going young at 3 and dylan stephens at 8 (if avail.). not jackson.

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3 hours ago, Rocky said:

if there was a jack higgins type, i'd take him for pick 8.. a kid with passion, speed and dare would be awesome

Isn’t that exactly what Cody Weightman is?

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True RE Grundy - he obviously slid, but as you say, at this stage it doesn't look like there's an equivalent forward in this draft. 

FWIW, I'm on the Young and Kemp bandwagon. I'd just be concerned if 'wanting a small forward' was given any weight when considering whether to split our current picks, or bidding on Henry.

 

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25 minutes ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

True RE Grundy - he obviously slid, but as you say, at this stage it doesn't look like there's an equivalent forward in this draft. 

FWIW, I'm on the Young and Kemp bandwagon. I'd just be concerned if 'wanting a small forward' was given any weight when considering whether to split our current picks, or bidding on Henry.

I'd be just as concerned if 'not wanting a small forward' was given any weight tbh mate.

Best available, no exceptions.

 

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46 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

Isn’t that exactly what Cody Weightman is?

Yes. Jack Higgins is even this mentor

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Best small forward by a mile is Henry ...but not in the best ten..  so you go with the best footballer at 3 (Young) then the best footballer at 8 (Kemp) and then the best footballer at 97... ( .......)  then Bennell (rookie) then (Martin rookie or Murray psd)  .... and let Burgess loose on all 45 (incl. Bradkte) 

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