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List changes who do we cut, trade or go after.


samcantstandya
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I can understand where @Laughing Goat is coming from. We recruited ANB as an inside mid which is where he started his time as Melbourne. He racked up a lot of the football in his first few years at Casey. He was super competitive winning a ton of contested football. I remember him getting 30+ possession in games regularly. Came runner up in best and fairest 2016. Because of our midfield depth he developed more as a small HF. Since then he has been rotated through the middle of the ground at times

It is probably silly to compare him to Clayton as they just aren't the same style of player.

If we can develop or recruit better small F/HF's and not have to use guys like ANB (and to a lesser extent Hunt) then I don't see why ANB couldn't go back to being a mid and add to our midfield rotation more consistently.

I would prefer this to trying to play Salem there again. He's just too important with his ball use off half back.

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3 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

What do you mean? 

One is a top 5 talent for reasons that the other is not. 

Gees Louise.....I didn't think it was that hard to understand....

All I am saying is that if ANB was given the opportunity & a good block of footy playing as a mid fielder, then maybe he might be a more valuable contributor, that's all.....Put him in the same position as Oliver or Viney & then make comparisons......

this is only my opinion.

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On 9/9/2019 at 4:43 PM, Dee*ceiving said:

Clarrie is very good, but not A grade. Doesn't hit the scoreboard near enough and this year very few of his possessions lead to a scoring chain (could be said of everyone I know). 

Not in the class of Martin, Sidebottom, Danger, Fyfe, Neale, Cripps, Bont, etc. They are genuine A graders.  Not yet at least.

Cripps doesn't hit the scoreboard that much better. He kick 13.6. Oliver kicked 4. Those two are neck and neck for mine and every bit A graders. Bontempelli is a different player, doesn't get it as much although his touches are just as influential.

For the record, Bontempelli kicked 15 and averaged 26 disposals. Neale kicked 12. Sidebottom 10. 

I think Oliver is absolutely as good a player as Neale and Cripps.  He may not have the hurt factor of Bontempelli or Sidebottom, but I'd argue Sidebottom has better players around him.

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On 9/9/2019 at 5:22 PM, Redleg said:

I actually don't assess him as a small forward, but rather as an AFL Player and to me he fumbles continually, drops marks, kicks and handballs poorly, as well as getting in the way of team mates . He is responsible for multiple turnovers and in modern football that is a no no. On the plus side, he as great endurance. Unfortunately,  his weaknesses far outweigh his asset of excellent fitness and I would be moving him on. 

I'd keep him, because you can't delist everyone and there are amazingly many others I'd let go of before him.

He needs a very defined and simple role that utilises his skill set. I'd stick him on a wing and play run-with-roles, and link up play. But the message would be 'keep it simple and really use your running asset to your advantage'.

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3 minutes ago, A F said:

Cripps doesn't hit the scoreboard that much better. He kick 13.6. Oliver kicked 4. Those two are neck and neck for mine and every bit A graders. Bontempelli is a different player, doesn't get it as much although his touches are just as influential.

For the record, Bontempelli kicked 15 and averaged 26 disposals. Neale kicked 12. Sidebottom 10. 

I think Oliver is absolutely as good a player as Neale and Cripps.  He may not have the hurt factor of Bontempelli or Sidebottom, but I'd argue Sidebottom has better players around him.

I think Oliver can become every bit as good as Neale and Cripps, but i dont think he is there yet, not far away, but not there yet. Clarry will be better when he gets the balance right in his game and will be better when the team functions well.. like a team. see last year v This year. 

But he has had an outstanding start to his career, and he is our elite midfielder, we need another to go with him and Max.

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40 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

I think Oliver can become every bit as good as Neale and Cripps, but i dont think he is there yet, not far away, but not there yet. Clarry will be better when he gets the balance right in his game and will be better when the team functions well.. like a team. see last year v This year. 

But he has had an outstanding start to his career, and he is our elite midfielder, we need another to go with him and Max.

At the end of 2017, Cripps was ahead of Oliver. At the end of 2018, Oliver was ahead of Cripps. At the end of 2019, both had incredibly consistent seasons.

I'm not saying Oliver can't get better, he definitely can, but in my book, he's every bit as good as many on the list I quoted.

Edited by A F
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23 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

As some wag said: ANB defined the new description "2 touch player"

But it was the best "2 touch game" since Robert Klomp won a rank arena.

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3 hours ago, A F said:

I'd keep him, because you can't delist everyone and there are amazingly many others I'd let go of before him.

He needs a very defined and simple role that utilises his skill set. I'd stick him on a wing and play run-with-roles, and link up play. But the message would be 'keep it simple and really use your running asset to your advantage'.

So you have no problem with the fumbles and turnovers? They are the main cause of opposition goals as we saw this year.

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6 minutes ago, Redleg said:

So you have no problem with the fumbles and turnovers? They are the main cause of opposition goals as we saw this year.

You're a harsh man Red and have made your point many times.  The kid gives his all but sadly has some important weaknesses in his game.  Effort isn't one of them.

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7 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

You're a harsh man Red and have made your point many times.  The kid gives his all but sadly has some important weaknesses in his game.  Effort isn't one of them.

Agree with all of that, including my being harsh, which has probably been brought on by following a perennially poor footy team.

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20 hours ago, Laughing Goat said:

Gees Louise.....I didn't think it was that hard to understand....

All I am saying is that if ANB was given the opportunity & a good block of footy playing as a mid fielder, then maybe he might be a more valuable contributor, that's all.....Put him in the same position as Oliver or Viney & then make comparisons......

this is only my opinion.

He fumbles under pressure.
He gathers and holds the ball in a kicking position and blind turns in to traffic.
He slips away from tackles when he's in a vulnerable position.

That's 3 things you absolutely do no want in a midfielder.

What he does do well is run his backside off contest to contest, which makes him an up the ground player not an inside 50 player. What position is that most beneficial to - a half forward flanker. What position does he play - a half forward flanker.

ANB doesn't need reinventing. All he needs to do is play the exact role he played in 2018 but to do it with more poise under pressure, better tackling technique and a slight but important work on forward craft when he finds himself forward. He went backwards big time this year mostly because the team went backwards and whilst I wouldn't bet on him being a long term quality player he doesn't need huge improvements to get back to a useful role player.

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4 hours ago, A F said:

I'd keep him, because you can't delist everyone and there are amazingly many others I'd let go of before him.

He needs a very defined and simple role that utilises his skill set. I'd stick him on a wing and play run-with-roles, and link up play. But the message would be 'keep it simple and really use your running asset to your advantage'.

His decision making, tackling and poor aerial efforts would be found out even more on the wing.

Half forward is his role, it's exactly the same role Clarkson got Scully for this year. We just weren't good enough to have that role provide value this year, but the coaches putting him straight back in multiple times this year tells me they still think it's vital. He protects the midfield by closing off the corridor and he tires out back flankers chasing him around all day. Simple development coaching on how to tackle and how to win the ball and get out of pressure with simple decision making could go a long way to fixing his greatest weaknesses. 

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34 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

He fumbles under pressure.
He gathers and holds the ball in a kicking position and blind turns in to traffic.
He slips away from tackles when he's in a vulnerable position.

That's 3 things you absolutely do no want in a midfielder.

What he does do well is run his backside off contest to contest, which makes him an up the ground player not an inside 50 player. What position is that most beneficial to - a half forward flanker. What position does he play - a half forward flanker.

ANB doesn't need reinventing. All he needs to do is play the exact role he played in 2018 but to do it with more poise under pressure, better tackling technique and a slight but important work on forward craft when he finds himself forward. He went backwards big time this year mostly because the team went backwards and whilst I wouldn't bet on him being a long term quality player he doesn't need huge improvements to get back to a useful role player.

Your right.....he doesn't need reinventing because he's actually not a HF. 

That's my point.

Time to move on DS

 

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8 hours ago, A F said:

For the record, Bontempelli kicked 15 and averaged 26 disposals. Neale kicked 12. Sidebottom 10.

Don't know who or where it was (maybe WB vs GWS match) - the commentators said Bont had had 50+ shots at goal this year for that many goals. At least he's having that many shots, but gee it's a momentum killer (maybe i read it lol).

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3 hours ago, Wunders said:

Don't know who or where it was (maybe WB vs GWS match) - the commentators said Bont had had 50+ shots at goal this year for that many goals. At least he's having that many shots, but gee it's a momentum killer (maybe i read it lol).

Yep, he's kicked 15.27. Outrageously inaccurate, but to have that many shots on goal he's doing something right.

As for Oliver fumbling @Redleg I think we watch different games. Oliver's kicking efficiency could get a whole lot better, as could his two-way-running, but IMV he rarely fumbles.

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7 hours ago, A F said:

Yep, he's kicked 15.27. Outrageously inaccurate, but to have that many shots on goal he's doing something right.

As for Oliver fumbling @Redleg I think we watch different games. Oliver's kicking efficiency could get a whole lot better, as could his two-way-running, but IMV he rarely fumbles.

We have only 3 spots available maybe 4 not sure if we went in2 the season one senior player down???? Either way we need 2 make some smart calls otherwise as it stands we can only pick 1/2 players in the draft if we r committed 2 selecting Langdon & Tomlinson. Surely we need 2 make calls on JKH, Stretch , J Wagner & Vanners. Am I missing any other senior players. I believe ANB is resigned. Ok VDB has a contract but he & KK r no certainties 2 play again. If we delete or trade 3-4 more at least we can capitalise on early draft picks & 2nd pick in the pre season draft.

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8 hours ago, A F said:

Yep, he's kicked 15.27. Outrageously inaccurate, but to have that many shots on goal he's doing something right.

As for Oliver fumbling @Redleg I think we watch different games. Oliver's kicking efficiency could get a whole lot better, as could his two-way-running, but IMV he rarely fumbles.

Wrong poster AF, I posted about ANB fumbling not Oliver.

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