30 minutes ago, layzie said:

There may be some who liken him more to Dejan Lovren ?

I like your comparison though!

Thank goodness he's gone. ?

He’s fallen back into his Mr Fixit role that he had at GWS.  In his time there he started as a forward, moved to defence, then finished as a wing / relief ruck. He may be something of a jack of all trades, master of none.

I was and am a fan and still think he’s a great addition.  Without being able to attend matches in person, it’s so hard to understand his role in defence.  

One thing I do know is that since he’s moved to defence, lever and may have looked good, the backline has been solid and we’ve won three from three.  On the basis of that, things are looking good!

21 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

He’s fallen back into his Mr Fixit role that he had at GWS.  In his time there he started as a forward, moved to defence, then finished as a wing / relief ruck. He may be something of a jack of all trades, master of none.

I was and am a fan and still think he’s a great addition.  Without being able to attend matches in person, it’s so hard to understand his role in defence.  

One thing I do know is that since he’s moved to defence, lever and may have looked good, the backline has been solid and we’ve won three from three.  On the basis of that, things are looking good!

yep

the other thing is that the back 7 of may, lever, tomlinson, hibberd, lockhart / rivers, salem, and harmes have looked relatively settled over the last clutch of games

harmes being there seems to have given salem the license to push further up field on rebound

it's working

9 hours ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

One thing I do know is that since he’s moved to defence, lever and may have looked good, the backline has been solid and we’ve won three from three.  On the basis of that, things are looking good!

Yep, really good point mate.

I think it's also the reason why he has taken a little time to settle in to the side.  He has been shifted around quite a bit and hasn't been given the opportunity to nail down a spot in the side.

However, his move to defence, as you rightly point out, has so far been a good one.  I saw a poster mention after the Pies game that they barely noticed him - to me, that's a good thing for a key position defender.  He had his man covered, didn't stuff up etc.  If you say that about a key position forward then you worry, but not for someone doing their job in defence.

10 hours ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

One thing I do know is that since he’s moved to defence, lever and may have looked good, the backline has been solid and we’ve won three from three.  On the basis of that, things are looking good!

Prior to the Port game, we were giving Oscar McDonald credit for Lever and May coming good.

In hindsight, Lever and May have probably just come good because they're both good players, who have figured out how to work as a team now that they've spent a bit of time working together. Both of them were recruits that we paid handsomely for with good reason.

50 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Yep, really good point mate.

I think it's also the reason why he has taken a little time to settle in to the side.  He has been shifted around quite a bit and hasn't been given the opportunity to nail down a spot in the side.

However, his move to defence, as you rightly point out, has so far been a good one.  I saw a poster mention after the Pies game that they barely noticed him - to me, that's a good thing for a key position defender.  He had his man covered, didn't stuff up etc.  If you say that about a key position forward then you worry, but not for someone doing their job in defence.

At the risk of being labelled a Tomlinson basher, he is a poor defender and has been poor to average in all three games he has played.

He can't play deep as any decent big forward will towel him up, which is why he was moved off Himmleburg and Lankey. And why it is a  big risk playing him on Bruce, who is out of form but would still have Tomlinson's measure.

Tomlinson is better up on the half back flank, which makes sense as it is more analogous to the position we got him to play - the wing - and he can use his tank to get up and down the ground.

That is where he played after being moved off Himmleburg and Lankey and where he started against the Pies (by the by he was on Miochek and the signs were not good for Tomo before he was VDBed - he was too slow and reactive).

May will take Naughton and so they will need another match up for Bruce. Lever is not great one on one either and putting him on Bruce robs us of his intercepts skills, which doesn't make sense. 

It would appear Omac is out of favour so maybe they will try Tomlinson on Bruce but i think that would be a mistake. An out of form Bruce will still beat Tomlinson.

As i have noted a number of times I like him in the team and would keep him in it. But i'd like to see him take Jones spot on the wing as that is where we will get most value form him. 

2 minutes ago, binman said:

At the risk of being labelled a Tomlinson basher, he is a poor defender and has been poor to average in all three games he has played.

 

I don't think it's Tomlinson bashing, binman.  I would class it as bashing him if you just potted the bloke and didn't bother to back it up.  Of course you haven't potted him, but actually tried to also back up where you're coming from.

However, do you think being a massive fan of Oscar might cloud your judgement just a little here?  He has done no worse than what Oscar has over his past three games in my opinion.  Tomlinson wasn't flash against North, but then Oscar wasn't flash against Port (which has been discussed in great depth so need to go over it).  

So they are really like for like right now.  I think Nasher makes a good point that May and Lever have improved more so because they are very good footballers as opposed to Oscar or Tomlinson having a large impact on that.

39 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Prior to the Port game, we were giving Oscar McDonald credit for Lever and May coming good.

In hindsight, Lever and May have probably just come good because they're both good players, who have figured out how to work as a team now that they've spent a bit of time working together. Both of them were recruits that we paid handsomely for with good reason.

Agree.

I don't think OMac is the reason Lever/May got better, and I don't think Tomlinson has anything to do with their ongoing improvement.

Both OMac and Tomlinson have played similar roles in our defensive set up. I thought OMac was good for his first few games but then poor. I think Tomlinson has done OK, but not great. In other words, neither has done well and we have room for improvement with that position on the ground.

3 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I don't think it's Tomlinson bashing, binman.  I would class it as bashing him if you just potted the bloke and didn't bother to back it up.  Of course you haven't potted him, but actually tried to also back up where you're coming from.

However, do you think being a massive fan of Oscar might cloud your judgement just a little here?  He has done no worse than what Oscar has over his past three games in my opinion.  Tomlinson wasn't flash against North, but then Oscar wasn't flash against Port (which has been discussed in great depth so need to go over it).  

So they are really like for like right now.  I think Nasher makes a good point that May and Lever have improved more so because they are very good footballers as opposed to Oscar or Tomlinson having a large impact on that.

I understand the perception my fandom of Omac might affect my assessment of Tomlinson, and that is fair enough. But i i don't think they are like for like WB.

Omac had a poor game against Port, but as acknowledged by many a poster he was excellent in the weeks prior. I reckon Omac was playing better in those weeks than tomo has in the last three weeks (games where our all team defence has been a million miles better than v port) but that is by the by.

The reason they are not like for like - and the reason i suspect why Tomo is playing ahead of Omac - is that really Omac can only play as the last big defender. He would be lost out on the HB line.

Tomo can't play that deep role (or at least that is my assessment), but has been tried there. Perhaps they will try again. And if it doesn't work put him up to HB, an option they don't have with Omac. So it could be simply a matter of greater versatility and flexibility with Tomo.

The other factor is crows, roos or pies didn't stretch our defensive bigs.

Naughton is genuine star and bruce is a solid marking forward, who although out of form is crafty and has troubled us before. With English pushing forward  the dogs will stretch our defensive much more than the case in our last three games.

Selection will be interesting. I expect Tomo will be selected and play as defender. It will fascinating to see where he plays and who he plays on.

 

52 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Prior to the Port game, we were giving Oscar McDonald credit for Lever and May coming good.

In hindsight, Lever and May have probably just come good because they're both good players, who have figured out how to work as a team now that they've spent a bit of time working together. Both of them were recruits that we paid handsomely for with good reason.

I think it’s structural, particularly for Lever. He needs two other key defenders playing alongside him for his game to really click. You’re right in that there has been a marked difference when we started playing either Oscar or Tomlinson in the back six.

31 minutes ago, binman said:

I understand the perception my fandom of Omac might affect my assessment of Tomlinson, and that is fair enough. But i i don't think they are like for like WB.

 

Yes and no to this one.  While O Mac might be a better defender overall, I think Tomlinson is more flexible, if that makes sense.  He can do more for the team as a whole, whereas Oscar is purely a defensive tall and can't really do much else.  Although he probably does that role better than Tomlinson does, who over his career hasn't been asked to do that role on too many occasions.

However, does the fact we have gone with Tomlinson as the second tall (I'll class Lever as the third), say more about where Oscar is at than Tomlinson?  I'd love to know more in terms of where Oscar sits in the pecking order, why he got dropped etc.  I do agree in that Oscar had been really good prior to the Port game, so that makes it all a little more perplexing.  

On the flip side, I don't think Tomlinson has done a whole lot worse than Oscar has, but as you say, this week will be interesting in terms of selection.  

 

Edited August 17, 20205 yr by Wiseblood

It might be as simple as omac's lack of flexibility keeping him out WB.

Goody loves players who can play mutiple roles, which make sense as it gives him options.

1 hour ago, binman said:

It might be as simple as omac's lack of flexibility keeping him out WB.

Goody loves players who can play mutiple roles, which make sense as it gives him options.

Very true.

Either way, you always back up your opinions with some facts and you actually make the effort to justify them.  I respect that.  I know the O Mac bias is there but rather than rubbish someone like Tomlinson, you at least do everything in a respectful manner. ?

Wouldn't be at all surprised to see Smith in a possie on the backline for this game against Footcray. He could do alright on a bloke like Naughton, tall enough, fast enough, and there is a definite need to cut out this bloke's clear runs, ideally pressure up the ground would be the most effective though....

5 hours ago, willmoy said:

Wouldn't be at all surprised to see Smith in a possie on the backline for this game against Footcray. He could do alright on a bloke like Naughton, tall enough, fast enough, and there is a definite need to cut out this bloke's clear runs, ideally pressure up the ground would be the most effective though....

Naughton is the real deal. A natural football. Agree Smith could do ok, and agree pressure on the ball carrier and blocking up leading lanes and space important.

But the only player at the demons i think is good enough to take Naughton is May.

3 hours ago, binman said:

Naughton is the real deal. A natural football. Agree Smith could do ok, and agree pressure on the ball carrier and blocking up leading lanes and space important.

But the only player at the demons i think is good enough to take Naughton is May.

I do not understand the obsession with Smith.

Smith's not a footballer and Naughton is. Naughton would obliterate him IMO.

May is deceptively quick (his spoil on Elliot I think it was, where he closed down out of nowhere, was an example of this) and good enough in the air to take Naughton.

Our backline has prospered from the unit gelling together. Smith brings the opposite of that.

Stroke of genius moving this bloke to the backline.  His contract now looks like a bargain lol

He smashed them tonight and was great last week too.

 

Very good start to the season. Foolish to think he is a winger, but if he plays like this consistently in defence, that’s a bloody good consolation prize.

Just now, Forest Demon said:

Very good start to the season. Foolish to think he is a winger, but if he plays like this consistently in defence, that’s a bloody good consolation prize.

He is a role player, nothing flash but does what he is asked to do.  The third rock we need down back

Tomlinson is the weakest tall defender in our current best-22 and also one of the best tall defenders we've had in 20 years.  Weird.

3 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Tomlinson is the weakest tall defender in our current best-22 and also one of the best tall defenders we've had in 20 years.  Weird.

ever since he was shifted into the roll he's shown that he's better suited behind the ball

some of his decision-making is still so bizarre tho

that back 7 of may, lever, tomlinson, jetta, hunt, rivers, and salem is looking really good

Edited March 27, 20214 yr by whatwhat say what

His best game for the club today 

100% best game for the club today, looked solid as a rock while others dropped some easy marks at times. That back three of talls is looking good right now. 

Held the backline together while those goons May and Lever dropped everything. 
 

I kid, I kid. 
 

But he did. 

Every good club has 3 rock solid defenders over 190cm and it’s looking the case with Tomlinson.