2 minutes ago, rjay said:

Totally agree 'dazzle'...

Without having seen much of either I'm kind of hoping Anderson, could see him on a wing in his first season and providing good value.

Rowell looks the goods as a mid but would we use him there?

...would be happy with one or the other though, adds a bit more class and youth to the list.

Me too mate, I'd rather Anderson. He has the ability to make a sudden impact up forward in the same way as Jayden Stephenson but also in the midfield as well. He brings genuine x factor and would add a whole new element to our side next year.

Heard Mahoney on the radio last Thursday saying we have interest in Brad Hill and would assess the option of trading an early pick if thats what it takes.

I nearly vomited in my mouth..

Just looked up the 2 SA boys birthdays & ANB turned 23 in Jan this year & Stretch still 22.

FFS get it right guys......

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Me too mate, I'd rather Anderson. He has the ability to make a sudden impact up forward in the same way as Jayden Stephenson but also in the midfield as well. He brings genuine x factor and would add a whole new element to our side next year.

Heard Mahoney on the radio last Thursday saying we have interest in Brad Hill and would assess the option of trading an early pick if thats what it takes.

I nearly vomited in my mouth..

I worry about this and it's a big reason why I think we need an external review.

I think internally we over rate the list and that is a big, big problem that has brought many clubs undone.

Someone not emotionally attached is in a better position to look at it and give an objective opinion.

My choice would be someone like Andrew Ireland or even Gubby Allen, people who know club football and list management.

31 minutes ago, DubDee said:

what a BS article.  change to age to 24 and we add Trac, Salem, Gus, Harmes, Lever etc etc and we would top the list.

 

In fairness, the article does say this at the end and adds: ‘considering much of the club's core is only a little older than this group, there aren't any major concerns around the make-up of the list.’

Add to this the fact that we have arguably the best under 23 player in the league, and this thread starts to look like a bit of an overreaction.

3 hours ago, Demon3 said:

100% the Lever acquisition is going to hurt the club. Its nothing against Jake, but it was derelict of the club to give up 2 first round picks for him, absolutely jumped at shadows. His return has been average at best and unlucky as well with injuries but i saw nothing in his games prior to his Knee injury that screamed we did well and 2 first round picks were appropriate. 

Pick 10 (O'Brien)and following year what ended up being pick 19 (Stocker) for Lever will be a steal for us in the years to come. 

2 hours ago, McQueen said:

Who the F would name their kid Dinny?

Dunno!

31 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Pick 10 (O'Brien)and following year what ended up being pick 19 (Stocker) for Lever will be a steal for us in the years to come. 

lazy way at looking at it,  look at who went after those picks in 2017, Jack Higgins, Ed Richards, Oscar Allen any of those 3 would be pretty handy dont you think? that is why it should always have been a future first rounder. 

Edited July 31, 20195 yr by Demon3

1 hour ago, Moonshadow said:

Pick 10 (O'Brien)and following year what ended up being pick 19 (Stocker) for Lever will be a steal for us in the years to come. 

My god!

Can you imagine if we’d done the Stocker trade instead of Adelaide. (Gifting Carlton pick 2 this year)

Demonland would break the interwebs!

2 hours ago, Demon3 said:

lazy way at looking at it,  look at who went after those picks in 2017, Jack Higgins, Ed Richards, Oscar Allen any of those 3 would be pretty handy dont you think? that is why it should always have been a future first rounder. 

I see it how it actually was.

You see it as it might have been but wasn't.

Which one is lazy?

2 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

I see it how it actually was.

You see it as it might have been but wasn't.

Which one is lazy?

Lol.

Move on Moony, you will never agree with anyone but yourself so its a waste of time interacting with you. 

We buggered up the back end of the Oliver draft. Although it was a weak draft.  But Mitch King, Hulett, Josh Wagner, Viv Michie and the hope of Joel Smith. We've since add Corey Wagner from this year. Does Lockhart belong in this group as well? Close enough because we need it.

We didn't get far with the next draft either. Weideman belongs to this year even though he was taken a year earlier. Hannan, Dion Johnstone ok whatever. But Filipovic (why not at least Ladhams if not Marshall FFS), Tim Smith and Keilty. I actually like the last two picks there, but if you're going to only have 2 picks in the main draft you better be adding some young talent in the rookie spots.

The Lever deal isn't the problem. You can argue the value to an extent but we got a good player who should start to improve with some luck. You'd take Lever for pick 10 any day even with the bad run he's had and whilst the pick downgrade was a steep price we still ended up with a useful late 2nd rounder.

Spargo, Fritsch, Petty, Baker. Ok that's more like it. One very good player and 3 options who all contribute something, develop them up.

Sparrow, Jordon, Nietschke, Bedford, Chandler, Austin Bradtke. Ok good, some numbers to work with. The first 2 should play some games next year if they are developed well. Dunkley is part of this group as well, our crap form let us get an extra bite. The last 4 are speculative but we're looking for role players not stars.

If we aren't bringing in 4 or 5 kids each year we're no chance of getting that internal replacement of depth with hungry young players as well as finding some diamonds in the rough. We've clogged our own list up, but it should be able to be unclogged relatively easily.

Dinny Navaratnam  is trash but the big picture is AFL staff writers ?

3 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Pick 10 (O'Brien)and following year what ended up being pick 19 (Stocker) for Lever will be a steal for us in the years to come. 

But of course we might have picked two completely different players to those who were picked at 10 and 19. Or traded those picks for another player, perhaps one with elite foot skills.

But I hope you are right Moonie about lever proving to be a steal. 

6 hours ago, DemonLad5 said:

That's a ridiculous statement. We gave up picks 10 and 15 for him, not 2 and 5. Lever is a future captain

Yes a possible Captain, by not based on talent.

1 hour ago, Demon3 said:

Lol.

Move on Moony, you will never agree with anyone but yourself so its a waste of time interacting with you. 

As expected.

8 hours ago, poita said:

This is what happens when you basically ignore the draft for three consecutive years. The Lever debacle in particular has set us back a long way. 

100% this. Anyone who disagrees is an apologist who accepts mediocrity.

The Lever trade was poor at the time, and has gotten worse with hindsight. Paying two first round picks for an out of contract player was stupid. We had the leverage in that situation, as he was out of contract, and we still buckled and overpaid. It was weak, and consistent with our club being weak for the past 50+ years.

By not drafting anyone in the first round for 4 years now, we’ve effectively unbalanced the list to load up for a premiership tilt. We failed. We now need to hit the draft hard to rebalance and stay competitive. If that means trading established players to get more higher picks, then so be it. We’ve been weak at the trade table for too long. Time to play hardball.

Edited July 31, 20195 yr by Lord Travis

On the bright side of the Lever deal (and I agree we paid a bit over, but the motive of seking tall defenders and genuine leaders is earnest enough).

They used the picks to get Darcy Fogarty in 2017, who has had impressive moments but is mostly spending his time int he SANFL, and the pick they gave Carlton in the wacky on-the-night trade in 2018, which became Liam Stocker. So, using those examples it isn't as if we missed out on major rejuvenation of our list.

We also got back pick 35 in 2017 (Harrison Petty), and a bit of loose change.

Some trivia about the 2018 draft

- the entire second round combined has only played 25 games to date! (Including 2 to Tom Sparrow).

- only three players outside the first round have cracked double-figure games in their first season (congrats to Marty Hore)

So, I'm not sure it can be argued that 2018 was the draft to load up on. Realisitcally, there were only about a dozen players looking likely to be top-quality players (including three academy selections), and we would not have been expecting to be in the top dozen picks. Could it actually be that we anticipated the thin crop?

Edited July 31, 20195 yr by Little Goffy
moved comment about trading for Fogarty to the trade targets thread

5 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Pick 10 (O'Brien)and following year what ended up being pick 19 (Stocker) for Lever will be a steal for us in the years to come. 

4 hours ago, Demon3 said:

lazy way at looking at it,  look at who went after those picks in 2017, Jack Higgins, Ed Richards, Oscar Allen any of those 3 would be pretty handy dont you think? that is why it should always have been a future first rounder. 

I think the key thing Mooney's post above highlights is that the draft is usually more of a lottery than what we have with Lever who at the time of his trade to us was a relatively young player with a career ahead of him, who had already established himself as a realitively elite player for his position.  Looks like a pretty good trade for us to me.

It would be brave for anyone to call the Lever deal a bust.

Keep him on the park and he will again be one of the premier rebound defenders in the comp.  He is rusty but he has been showing some signs.

He is quality.  Let us just see this one play out.

The main concern with the list is how the lack of physical momentum going into the season has caused us to completely lose our mojo.

And the inability of coaching or leadership to get the group back on track psychologically. 

I knew our first half of the season would be rubbish but was hoping we would come home with a flurry....

In addition to all the talk of us needing that elite outside player, I really do think that we are currenly another quality inside mid short with the aging and fading of Nathan Jones.  Depending on what we do with pick 2 - 4 this year, I'm also optimistic that either Sparrow or a player that we could pick up with our 2nd rounder this year (or even trade for) could become that player and if that was to eventuate, I hardly think our list would be particularly unbalanced moving forward.

I all think it's more related to the median age of your talent and the ones I'd be most worried about if I were in their shoes are Hawthorn.

37 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I think the key thing Mooney's post above highlights is that the draft is usually more of a lottery than what we have with Lever who at the time of his trade to us was a relatively young player with a career ahead of him, who had already established himself as a realitively elite player for his position.  Looks like a pretty good trade for us to me.

I agree...if that's permitted by @Demon3

 

26 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

I agree...if that's permitted by @Demon3

 

Did you just agree with someone other than yourself or did you just agree with yourself?  ?

12 hours ago, DemonLad5 said:

That's a ridiculous statement. We gave up picks 10 and 15 for him, not 2 and 5. Lever is a future captain

10 and 15 in a super draft probably gets you more than Sylvia and McLean.

 

 

20 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Me too mate, I'd rather Anderson. He has the ability to make a sudden impact up forward in the same way as Jayden Stephenson but also in the midfield as well. He brings genuine x factor and would add a whole new element to our side next year.

Heard Mahoney on the radio last Thursday saying we have interest in Brad Hill and would assess the option of trading an early pick if thats what it takes.

I nearly vomited in my mouth..

That could be because I was bang on the money about our interest in Hill months ago.

BTW we won't have a shot at Rowell or Anderson unless we finish last. Gillon will ensure the Suns will have picks 1 & 2.

16th for U/23 talent.

Even if he's half right (personally I agree with him that we're in the bottom 6) then it's a clear indictment on the overall recruiting by Jason Taylor.

That guy must go. Now.