On 23/06/2018 at 18:10, Rogue said:

In my view this is an entirely irrelevant question, and asking it indicates you've either missed - or chosen to ignore - the substance of my post. I'll play along, though; I don't know, but I assume that it's Richmond station.

Here's a question for you: Given that the proposed Yarra Park training oval is a shorter distance from Richmond station than almost all of the MCG seating, you must believe that it is necessary to move our home games to a ground that is more accessible for people from the SE suburbs, right?

I don't agree with substance of you post, about attending. People want to belong to something.  They are not all as busy as you seem to be 'rge'.

Having it at Richmond station would allow some on the spur of the moment, to hop off the train and go to the D's HQ.

They're not likely to do this, having to get of the train, cross the busy roads, and then walk all the way up the hill to Jolimont. 

The inspiration to go see the new HQ will have evaporated.  For those who have a thought of, 'maybe'.

Mums with kids in tow.  Single dads, it just gets that bit farther, that bit harder.  The whim evaporates, with the extra walk, on top of the public transport journey.

you don't see it, I see it. its an issue and the regualer d's members are unlikely to see it.

St-Kilda at Moorabbin. then hey went to Seaford. 

Then crawled back to Moorabbin, because the members did not buy into the move... they hated it, being out of the way, and out of sight. So they did not attend training, and many stopped taking memberships.

Having it close as can be, and a high profile site is crucial.

Richmond station is one of the busiest stations in the state. Jolimont barely.

Now the after-game.  thousands of people go back thru Richmond station...  our supporters many would pop in after the game, if not before the game,,, on getting off the train, to have pre-game drinks, or eats.

We would get hundreds on game day following the match.  Lots of Revenue.  Not so having to go the opposite way, away from the station.

  On 23/06/2018 at 17:32, DV8 said:

there is a multitude of reasons why Yarra Park is the wrong choice.

 

Tell me 'rog', which station would carry more people traffic to and from the Mcg? Richmond station or Jolimont station.?

It's not just about which train station is a better choice dv8. If you can't see that then this is a pointless discussion 

  On 23/06/2018 at 18:35, DV8 said:

I don't agree with substance of you post, about attending. People want to belong to something.  They are not all as busy as you seem to be 'rge'.

Having it at Richmond station would allow some on the spur of the moment, to hop off the train and go to the D's HQ.

They're not likely to do this, having to get of the train, cross the busy roads, and then walk all the way up the hill to Jolimont. 

The inspiration to go see the new HQ will have evaporated.  For those who have a thought of, 'maybe'.

Mums with kids in tow.  Single dads, it just gets that bit farther, that bit harder.  The whim evaporates, with the extra walk, on top of the public transport journey.

you don't see it, I see it. its an issue and the regualer d's members are unlikely to see it.

St-Kilda at Moorabbin. then hey went to Seaford. 

Then crawled back to Moorabbin, because the members did not buy into the move... they hated it, being out of the way, and out of sight. So they did not attend training, and many stopped taking memberships.

Having it close as can be, and a high profile site is crucial.

Richmond station is one of the busiest stations in the state. Jolimont barely.

Now the after-game.  thousands of people go back thru Richmond station...  our supporters many would pop in after the game, if not before the game,,, on getting off the train, to have pre-game drinks, or eats.

We would get hundreds on game day following the match.  Lots of Revenue.  Not so having to go the opposite way, away from the station.

 I cannot believe that you are suggesting we site the venue on the basis that people will “spur of the moment” hop off the train with kids in tow when they see our HQ! I have never met any parent that has hopped off a train with their kids on the basis of noticing a Club building and I would be disappointed if the MFC board in their revenue projections had this as a serious element in their choice of the site. Although it serves less train lines (Jolimont), it also services two busy tram lines and the area is jam-packed at the conclusion of any match. It is also only 100 metres from the ground.

You're not going to get much closer to the Top end of Town....than Yarra Park.

Location.. location..and opportunities.

Look at the Blues, Cats, Essendon, Hawks at both Waverly and what will be Dingley.

These are relatively big clubs (bigger than ours), and none of their training bases is anywhere near as remotely close to major public transport hubs as the Jolimont site.

Let's not forget that during the week, Richmond station is only accessible via the eastern end, as the western exit is closed.

Distance from the southern exit of Richmond station to the likely location of our HQ for Gosch's (where the triangular patch of land is) is approx 500m. Distance from the northern exit of Richmond station to the proposed location of our HQ in Yarra Park would be approx 1 km.

Crossing Punt Rd either way so busy roads is inconsequential. Yarra Park is very much apart of the MCG surrounds, whereas Gosch's is rather separate. Clearly the club wants to be as close as possible to our home (MCG), the difference of being an extra 500m in distance to be in closer proximity would probably be very acceptable.

I'd rather be closer to the Tiger's Punt Rd facility (which we shared during the second world war) than the Pies base. Similar to the old MCC members stand days, where the Dees and Tigers had change rooms side-by-side coming out of the MCC, with the other's coming out of the southern stand rooms.

Yarra Park also far more accessible to the CBD.

As over posts show, trees are gonna have to go and chopping trees brings on a whole new opposition

Imho the MFC will and should care less about pandering to the whim of a few hundred occasional spectators.

Thats not how you go about a business case for the establishment of a world class facility thats 99% about use by and of a club, its admin, players and coaches. Its about what provides the best outcome for the club in the manner IT will use it.

  On 25/06/2018 at 03:56, beelzebub said:

Imho the MFC will and should care less about pandering to the whim of a few hundred occasional spectators.

Thats not how you go about a business case for the establishment of a world class facility thats 99% about use by and of a club, its admin, players and coaches. Its about what provides the best outcome for the club in the manner IT will use it.

Couldn't agree more Bub. In this instance, it should be very much a case of what is best for the club, not what is best for the supporters.

 

 

Edited June 25, 20186 yr by Demon Disciple

  On 25/06/2018 at 07:54, Demon Disciple said:

Couldn't agree more Bub. In this instance, it should be very much a case of what is best for the club, not what is best for the supporters.

 

 

A very fav film btw

Im sure folk will find the place without too much difficulty...

It'll be right next to some other ground of note ?

Can someone seriously tell me the advantage of training there over Gosch's?

Fact is there is none. Besides some quaint feeling that we're close to the MCG

It's just fuzz for the supporters, won't happen.

I assume the club has a back up plan as I can only see this plan working if there are massive compromises.

The days of building ovals in CBD parklands are pretty well gone.

Assuming this doesn't fly what do people think of other venues.

Would the Port oval with some form of sharing with Port be a possibility. It's centrally located and there is office space potential nearby.

Don't know but I suspect the VFL clubs train late in the day as the players have work commitment so there would be no clash. Not sure if it is used for cricket.

  On 25/06/2018 at 03:43, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

As over posts show, trees are gonna have to go and chopping trees brings on a whole new opposition

It looks like we may have to cut out a small chunk of the scoreboard and a fair section of the stadium roof. MCC not gonna like that. Not to mention all those cars we'll flatten. Maybe we can sort a compensation package through Zurich? 

  On 25/06/2018 at 08:45, Roost It said:

Can someone seriously tell me the advantage of training there over Gosch's?

Fact is there is none. Besides some quaint feeling that we're close to the MCG

It's just fuzz for the supporters, won't happen.

Good point. And in one way, it makes bugger-all difference.

I think the key of this is that we are football nomads and have had to beg and scrape for a training ground somewhere, anywhere. From our days at the Junction oval, to days where we literally had nowhere to train, to now at Gosch's ... and how long before Eddie gets an idea that CFC needs office space at the square stadium and the CFC women need somewhere to train .... like Gosch's ....

I'm exaggerating but not much. Eddie has pulled strings to expand CFC's land grab before.

If I understand it, this new Yarra Park thing, if it gets off the ground, will be OUR office, OUR oval, no-one else's, no one will have a claim to it, it will be a HOME rather than a temporary facility where we are liable to moved on like street beggars at the drop of a hat.

The players in fact might not notice any difference at all, the spectators hardly any, but the club will have a HOME. A social club? Other facilities to help raise $$$.

All round it's very attractive. I can understand why people who don't barrack for the MIGHTY DEMONS might be able to find negatives ... some may even be justified! ... but for the MFC it's very attractive.

Out of interest does anyone have any idea of the revenues of the various AFL social clubs putting poker machine revenue to one side.

Many pubs struggle these days and running an establishment based on match days at the MCG (10-13  a year?) doesn't jump to mind as a great return on fixed costs.

That being said I confess to having no idea as to whether social clubs are profitable when you take return on establishment costs into account. Of course many are built on free land which helps.

Edited June 25, 20186 yr by Diamond_Jim

  On 25/06/2018 at 08:56, Mazer Rackham said:

Good point. And in one way, it makes bugger-all difference.

I think the key of this is that we are football nomads and have had to beg and scrape for a training ground somewhere, anywhere. From our days at the Junction oval, to days where we literally had nowhere to train, to now at Gosch's ... and how long before Eddie gets an idea that CFC needs office space at the square stadium and the CFC women need somewhere to train .... like Gosch's ....

I'm exaggerating but not much. Eddie has pulled strings to expand CFC's land grab before.

If I understand it, this new Yarra Park thing, if it gets off the ground, will be OUR office, OUR oval, no-one else's, no one will have a claim to it, it will be a HOME rather than a temporary facility where we are liable to moved on like street beggars at the drop of a hat.

The players in fact might not notice any difference at all, the spectators hardly any, but the club will have a HOME. A social club? Other facilities to help raise $$$.

All round it's very attractive. I can understand why people who don't barrack for the MIGHTY DEMONS might be able to find negatives ... some may even be justified! ... but for the MFC it's very attractive.

Trouble is MR it involves using public space and cutting down trees. For those two reasons alone I seriously doubt it will fly. Sadly we will have to be happy with a location outside of Yarra park and the MCG. As for a social club does more than a few members care? The days of social clubs being big money spinners are gone. Just win games and play in GF's regularly over the next decade that is what is required not a training ground next to the MCG. 

  On 25/06/2018 at 08:45, Roost It said:

Can someone seriously tell me the advantage of training there over Gosch's?

Fact is there is none. Besides some quaint feeling that we're close to the MCG

It's just fuzz for the supporters, won't happen.

Players, coaching staff and club admin all in the one place. Having them separated creates a significant disadvantage. You don’t want the football dept having to travel miles to get to the training track.

AAMI to Gosch's park is a short walk, hardly a disadvantage

  On 25/06/2018 at 12:23, Roost It said:

AAMI to Gosch's park is a short walk, hardly a disadvantage

but club admin, mfc shop and social club are not at aami

additionally aami is bursting at the seams so as we increase the size of the football dept and facilities there is nowhere to grow

additionally at aami we are just a lowly tenant (and not the only one) and have no say in any aami future development

aami is not a long term option (nor mid term)

Edited June 25, 20186 yr by daisycutter

  On 25/06/2018 at 13:49, daisycutter said:

but club admin, mfc shop and social club are not at aami

additionally aami is bursting at the seams so as we increase the size of the football dept and facilities there is nowhere to grow

additionally at aami we are just a lowly tenant (and not the only one) and have no say in any aami future development

aami is not a long term option (nor mid term)

PJ has also stated in the last AAMI is bloody expensive and a “sunk cost”. Not our venue and we can’t make any revenue from it like naming rights etc.

  On 25/06/2018 at 13:49, daisycutter said:

but club admin, mfc shop and social club are not at aami

additionally aami is bursting at the seams so as we increase the size of the football dept and facilities there is nowhere to grow

additionally at aami we are just a lowly tenant (and not the only one) and have no say in any aami future development

aami is not a long term option (nor mid term)

We share aami

Its notlike we can use it whenever the lads want. This has at time needed players to find their own facilities to do out of session work. NOT under the watch of our med/fitness guts. 

Amateur hour really.

Time to leave motel8 for the Hilton

  On 25/06/2018 at 09:06, old dee said:

Trouble is MR it involves using public space and cutting down trees. For those two reasons alone I seriously doubt it will fly. Sadly we will have to be happy with a location outside of Yarra park and the MCG. As for a social club does more than a few members care? The days of social clubs being big money spinners are gone. Just win games and play in GF's regularly over the next decade that is what is required not a training ground next to the MCG. 

Fortunately  trees do grow

In fact the begin life grow and die to be replaced

What's the problem with trees?

  On 25/06/2018 at 22:06, jackaub said:

Fortunately  trees do grow

In fact the begin life grow and die to be replaced

What's the problem with trees?

As part of the beautification and making the new oval meld into its hosting environs plant lots of trees of suitable types to encircle the grassed surface...giving the new ground a permanent image of being guarded and watched simultaneously. 

How many trees got knocked for Tennis ? 

Its not like theyd need to take out that many. The new ' Forrest' will compensate

Another thought....put car parking under the new oval. Why use valuable leasable/ usable building space ?