We are due for a Rebuild.

[olisik 4,060]

Our midfield, wings and Forward line are not AFL standard. We can’t hit handpasses, our mids don’t defend, our key forwards don’t even take shots at goals when inside 50. 

We need to look to trade out some players to get ourself back into the draft. For the right offer I feel OMac, Hunt, Viney, Brayshaw, Trac, Tmac and Weeds should be in consideration to help us reset our list and team balance and fill these gaps.

We arnt going to get close to a premiership with this list

[praha 11,267]

I called this a few weeks ago and was shutdown.

I wouldn't say we need a full rebuild. We need to go the Richmond 2016 route. That means making a tough decision (Deledio) and taking a chance on young talent (Prestia, Caddy).

Coaching wise, Goodwim needs a refresher and maybe a new set of faces. But we are potentially looking at a huge turnover at seasons end. Rumblings I'm hearing within football fraternity is that Bartlett and Pert have both indirectly put football department on notice. Goodwin has a little under 12 months to turn it around.

Edited June 30, 2019 by praha

[buck_nekkid 6,103]

I disagree.  We have a large number of players each week coming into a team, and often have had little experience.  Many of our better players have been poor.  We could certainly do with some talent top up, but we actually have a solid core that should make us very competitive.  As for the game plan, that is a different question.  We have such low skills when we ‘rush’.  This works when we tackle (36 today for a whole game), and when we win contests (about 580:3).  Gotta do better.  But the core is there, and needs consistent time together to  actually create something.

[ding 5,126]

No, this list wont be winning us a premiership, but the problem starts in the coaching box. Fix that first before even thinking about rebuilding the list.

Roos was a leader of men and he gave us hope.

Goodwin sprouts corporate BS after every loss ( "Connections" etc etc) and has lost all of the momentum we gained from the last couple of years of Roos' tenure.

Get rid of him before the club is forced into yet another list rebuid. The boys might love him, but he is game day poison.

 

 

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 4,084]

11 minutes ago, praha said:

That means making a tough decision (Deledio)

**Club proceeds to delist Max Gawn

[Emerald 1,744]

Last year we had an AFL team that made a preliminary final and a VFL team that made the grand final. Instead of the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' philosophy, the club's response was to have a massive clean out of players that has killed our depth this year. Do it again and the talent will be stretched pretty thin and we'll spend the next few years in a familiar situation. I don't know the answer but I hope someone at the club does.

Edited June 30, 2019 by Emerald

[praha 11,267]

8 minutes ago, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

**Club proceeds to delist Max Gawn

Well not quite. But a tough decision on a Viney, Mcdonald or Brayshaw may be required.

[Demon Disciple 12,537]

11 minutes ago, praha said:

Well not quite. But a tough decision on a Viney, Mcdonald or Brayshaw may be required.

OMAC out. Done!

But seriously, i know he i young and inexperienced, but Weideman in the space of less than a year has gone from a promising young KPP to worrying to disaster. He is next to useless atm in the forward line. Sure some of that has to do with midfield problems, but the majority of it has to do with him being a pretty clueless footballer.

I know he's recently re-signed, but would it be beyond the realms of possibility that he may be put up as trade bait? Or would he be better served with bringing in a #1 forward (Brown) and for TMAC to take #2 & Weid #3 defender?

Edited June 30, 2019 by Demon Disciple

[olisik 4,060]

Need to do whatever we can to get 5-6 top 20 picks. Our list needs a reset and any trade should be considered before our players lose even more value.

[DeeSpencer 26,687]

16 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Last year we had an AFL team that made a preliminary final and a VFL team that made the grand final. Instead of the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' philosophy, the club's response was to have a massive clean out of players that has killed our depth this year. Do it again and the talent will be stretched pretty thin and we'll spend the next few years in a familiar situation. I don't know the answer but I hope someone at the club does.

Lol massive clean out.

Where are these amazing depth players who would be helping us?

Hogan went out for May in.
Kent went ok at the Saints but is now injured.
Tyson - couldn't get a game at North.
Bugg - delisted himself from Carlton.

Filipovic? Johnstone? King? McKenna? Pedersen?

I agree we don't need to make massive list changes this year but the idea that our delistings last year had anything to do with our win loss this year was wrong. 

Our depth is poor because our depth players - Tim Smith, Keilty, JKH, Stretch, Wagner * 2, Maynard - have either copped a lot of injuries or just aren't very good. We'll keep some, move others on but it won't be a big factor.

[DeeSpencer 26,687]

46 minutes ago, olisik said:

Our midfield, wings and Forward line are not AFL standard. We can’t hit handpasses, our mids don’t defend, our key forwards don’t even take shots at goals when inside 50. 

We need to look to trade out some players to get ourself back into the draft. For the right offer I feel OMac, Hunt, Viney, Brayshaw, Trac, Tmac and Weeds should be in consideration to help us reset our list and team balance and fill these gaps.

We arnt going to get close to a premiership with this list

We aren't getting more than a packet of chips for Oscar McDonald or Hunt so forget them. At best late 3rd round picks that they'd fetch probably aren't more valuable than keeping them or delisting them or whatever the plan is.

Trading Weids for what? To draft another young key forward who might take 4 years to become better than Weids. How does that help?

Trading Tommy Mc I can get around but who are we getting in? If we've got a 50 goal a year key forward we can swap Tom for then fine go for it. 

Trading Trac, to get in what? Cam Rayner who's just Trac but younger? Trac's played perfectly decent footy the last month or so. Unless you think he'll never buckle down and go to the next level you're pretty much giving up a good player on the hope of a better player. Trade out the one guy who has the ability to be a great half forward flanker only to draft a lesser half forward flanker?

Brayshaw is the one I agree with because his value is hopefully high and we can cover him.

 

[DeeSpencer 26,687]

Geelong traded out (pretty much delisted) Menzel.

Bought in:
Rohan - cheap trade
Dahlhaus - free agent
Fist round draft pick Jordan Clark
VFL player upgrade - Tom Atkins
Previour pick - Gryan Miers
Ablett forward

And had a whole new forward line.

We can make maybe 1 subtraction, 3 or 4 additions to beef up the forward line, get some training time and quality together in the midfield get the backline healthy and things can change very quickly.

[dazzledavey36 56,347]

We dont need a rebuild. We need to add quality and experience onto our list. 

Brisbane showed this year that with good trading it can work if you bring in the right quality in. They added Neale and McCarthy as trades then hit a bargain with a delisted free agent in Jarryd Lyons. They've all made significant impact this year with a tinkering of their game plan.

Richmond did te same at the end of 2016 when they brough in Prestia, Caddy and Nankervis. All 3 played a huge role in that premiership year in 2017. They too tinkered their game.

Start first by adding someone like Ed Langdon and along with a top 5 pick and maybe another decent trade in.

It can change quite quickly.

[dazzledavey36 56,347]

12 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Lol massive clean out.

Where are these amazing depth players who would be helping us?

Hogan went out for May in.
Kent went ok at the Saints but is now injured.
Tyson - couldn't get a game at North.
Bugg - delisted himself from Carlton.

Filipovic? Johnstone? King? McKenna? Pedersen?

I agree we don't need to make massive list changes this year but the idea that our delistings last year had anything to do with our win loss this year was wrong. 

Our depth is poor because our depth players - Tim Smith, Keilty, JKH, Stretch, Wagner * 2, Maynard - have either copped a lot of injuries or just aren't very good. We'll keep some, move others on but it won't be a big factor.

 

6 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

We aren't getting more than a packet of chips for Oscar McDonald or Hunt so forget them. At best late 3rd round picks that they'd fetch probably aren't more valuable than keeping them or delisting them or whatever the plan is.

Trading Weids for what? To draft another young key forward who might take 4 years to become better than Weids. How does that help?

Trading Tommy Mc I can get around but who are we getting in? If we've got a 50 goal a year key forward we can swap Tom for then fine go for it. 

Trading Trac, to get in what? Cam Rayner who's just Trac but younger? Trac's played perfectly decent footy the last month or so. Unless you think he'll never buckle down and go to the next level you're pretty much giving up a good player on the hope of a better player. Trade out the one guy who has the ability to be a great half forward flanker only to draft a lesser half forward flanker?

Brayshaw is the one I agree with because his value is hopefully high and we can cover him.

 

A brilliant yet well articulated response.

[olisik 4,060]

15 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

We aren't getting more than a packet of chips for Oscar McDonald or Hunt so forget them. At best late 3rd round picks that they'd fetch probably aren't more valuable than keeping them or delisting them or whatever the plan is.

Trading Weids for what? To draft another young key forward who might take 4 years to become better than Weids. How does that help?

Trading Tommy Mc I can get around but who are we getting in? If we've got a 50 goal a year key forward we can swap Tom for then fine go for it. 

Trading Trac, to get in what? Cam Rayner who's just Trac but younger? Trac's played perfectly decent footy the last month or so. Unless you think he'll never buckle down and go to the next level you're pretty much giving up a good player on the hope of a better player. Trade out the one guy who has the ability to be a great half forward flanker only to draft a lesser half forward flanker?

Brayshaw is the one I agree with because his value is hopefully high and we can cover him.

 

Your over rating Weed, Trac and Tmac here who combined today for a total of 1 tackle.

Also most trades are not as simple as pick for player. We could package one of our 3rd or 2nd rounders + Hunt or Omac to move up the draft in a compounding fashion. 

We almost were able to offload pick 23+ Trengove for a pick to net us Lever, only for us to end up paying 2 first rounders 2 years later.

Edited June 30, 2019 by olisik

[DeeSpencer 26,687]

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

A brilliant yet well articulated response.

Cheers.

I think one thing we have to do is keep draft picks where possible and brave the free agency waters.

Free agency finds - including delisted pick ups - are the best way to improve the list. A trade improves the list but comes at a cost. It's time we find a at least one if not more who can make us better.

The good news is we've got plenty of positions - half back, wing, half forward, crumbing forward - where our baseline level of talent is so low that it really can't be hard to find a better option. Operation find a better version of the Wagner's and ANB should be the aim.

[Supermercado 2,806]

I'd rather wait and see if this happens again next year after another trade/draft period and hopefully a decent run with injuries in pre-season then hit the dump button and go for some mystical tilt at a flag years in the future. Not against necking one big name player to make a statement (and for me it would be Brayshaw) but it's a bit premature to blow the joint up.

Is this what happens when you can't exact vengeance on the coach?

[Thehardtackler 785]

Petracca and Brayshaw are impacting games but there are very few others. They remind me of how poor Scully and Trengove made some of our more senior players look when they were drafted. We should have kept Watts who loved our club. We must keep Oliver, Salem, May, Lever, Gawn and Lockhart. Most of the rest of the list could be looked at, at least the one’s out of contract at the very least.

 

 

 

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

But people keep telling me Jason Taylor has recruited superbly over the past five years.

How is it possible we need a mini rebuild?

[dazzledavey36 56,347]

1 minute ago, olisik said:

Your over rating Weed, Trac and Tmac here who combined today for a total of 1 tackle.

Also most trades are not as simple as pick for player. We could package one of our 3rd or 2nd rounders + Hunt or Omac to move up the draft in a compounding fashion. 

So trade for more draft picks so we can wait 4 to 5 years to see if they developed? 

 

[Thehardtackler 785]

Viney is also untouchable!

[Thehardtackler 785]

Petracca is worth 2-3 goals a game when we are playing well. Brayshaw brings hardness and skill and may be our best player. I think both players are not part of the problem. If anything, we need more players like them from the draft.

[Clintosaurus 7,953]

What would be the highest number of best 22 we have had on the field in any single game this year? More than 15? There has been too many depth players expected to play like best 22 and it always shows. 

Edited June 30, 2019 by Clintosaurus

[olisik 4,060]

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

So trade for more draft picks so we can wait 4 to 5 years to see if they developed? 

 

Jayden Stephenson, Connor Rozee and Sam Walsh say hi. Plenty of recent players who have been drafted who eclipse our players. 

Edited June 30, 2019 by olisik

[—coach— 3,496]

For what it’s worth, was at Olympic Park Sports medicine the other talking to a couple of the doctors and their comment was “If the players spent a little more time training and a little less time at the cafe next door they might be playing a little better”. Read into this what you will.