41 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

I disagree that he is rubbish, he is what he is, he is creative, he is clean and he is a proven goal kicker. those 3 traits alone are pretty much non existent in our team at the moment.

The "he wont be on our list next year argument" is ridiculous, until we pack it in for the year, we pick the best teams we can, and right now, Garlett is a better option.

 

But he isn't clean anymore, he's dropped lots of marks, fumbled the ball where we expect him to swoop in and has kicked the bulk of his goals through getting an easy over the top handball/kick rather than creating heaps of pressure. I think we now have to have 1 eye on next year, we know what Jeff can do, at his best yes he's best 22, but he hasn't been at his best for a very very long time now, and was basically getting games because we had no-one else. Now's the time to be trying Lockhart or getting more games into Spargo (although they do play different positions)  because more than likely he will be gone next year.

14 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

But he isn't clean anymore, he's dropped lots of marks, fumbled the ball where we expect him to swoop in and has kicked the bulk of his goals through getting an easy over the top handball/kick rather than creating heaps of pressure. I think we now have to have 1 eye on next year, we know what Jeff can do, at his best yes he's best 22, but he hasn't been at his best for a very very long time now, and was basically getting games because we had no-one else. Now's the time to be trying Lockhart or getting more games into Spargo (although they do play different positions)  because more than likely he will be gone next year.

That is all fair enough, he dropped a mark in Darwin that was pretty crucial yes, but we wasn't on his own. 

IMO Lockhart and even Spargo are not instinctive enough yet.. and our goals tally will tell you that we need goal kickers or creators. Jeff is still that, if he is getting goals out the back..  then at this stage thats ok.. hardly anyone else is kicking goals, certainly other small fwds are not, i would argue Jeff reads the play better so he gets in those spots.

Anyway,  im Team Jeff and hope he stays in, its the beauty of opinions, we can all have different ones.

 

 

15 hours ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

How Pruess doesn't get a game . . . . regardless of what some say about his alleged lack of fitness . . . . is a complete mystery to me. In a side that can't kick a goal, he's averaging two per game for us . . . (admittedly a small sample [2 games]). He competes well, relieves Max in the ruck (even if it's just in the forward 50 arc), brings others into the game and takes the pressure off Tommy and Sam. There's something badly amiss . . . 

Why would Preuss be “unfit”. He did a preseason, he goes to training like the other guys.

I have not been keen on bringing in preuss, in large part due to his mobility.

However ihe been persuaded by dee  zephyr's argument on last night's (excellent) podcast that preuss desire to be proactive and actually kick for goal rather tban loom to aleays give off is something we are in dire need of as is his agressiveness and aerial contest work.

Did anybody else notice that Collingwood seemed to look for whoever May was matching up on. The scored about 5-6 goals with this ploy because whoever he was on was confident of beating him. He is not a one on one defender. Our backline is full of intercept marking defenders. With all of Leaver, May, Hore, Frost, Hibberd  have the same skill set with a few minor differences. Hibberd has lost a yard or two. May is unfit and is crap at reading the play though he is a good kick to position, unfortunately that is not his job. Our backline was to big against the pies. Spargo did not do enough and is young and will get his chance. Both Lockhart and C.Wagner played better than him for Casey. ANB and KK were not too bad either. We missed T. Smith up forward because Tmac is not a target anymore.

 

22 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

That is all fair enough, he dropped a mark in Darwin that was pretty crucial yes, but we wasn't on his own. 

IMO Lockhart and even Spargo are not instinctive enough yet.. and our goals tally will tell you that we need goal kickers or creators. Jeff is still that, if he is getting goals out the back..  then at this stage thats ok.. hardly anyone else is kicking goals, certainly other small fwds are not, i would argue Jeff reads the play better so he gets in those spots.

Anyway,  im Team Jeff and hope he stays in, its the beauty of opinions, we can all have different ones.

 

 

He hasn't been our worst, but given he's played 180 odd games and is one of our eldest I just expect a lot more from him, and think at the moment we wouldn't be getting much less from guys who are in their 1st or 2nd year. The experience they can get will be much better than continuing to play someone like Jeff who I reckon will be gone next year. 

2 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

He hasn't been our worst, but given he's played 180 odd games and is one of our eldest I just expect a lot more from him, and think at the moment we wouldn't be getting much less from guys who are in their 1st or 2nd year. The experience they can get will be much better than continuing to play someone like Jeff who I reckon will be gone next year. 

Good debate R&BR..  and respect your points of view. Whoever they go with i just hope they hit the scoreboard.

Season is cooked so the first I would have a look at is Chandler. Forward pocket.. It is a pity about Sparrow. Lockhart I would look at and Dunkley and kk in a few weeks.

It is time for K Dunk. we picked him up during mid season as he is fit and in form so let's not wait around

Our fwd line is a disgrace. he can try out the Melky role.  he will go hard and put his body on the line unlike Jeff regardless

Edited June 12, 20195 yr by DubDee
typo

17 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Ffs. Our EFFICIENCY WAS POOR. Kicking the ball continues to be RIDICULOUSLY BAD. 

Its a basic skill. Some kicks were not even under pressure.  

Players are also goal shy.  It’s a shambles. 

My point exactly.....

why he keeps persisting with inefficient players is beyond me.

18 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Ffs. Our EFFICIENCY WAS POOR. Kicking the ball continues to be RIDICULOUSLY BAD. 

Its a basic skill. Some kicks were not even under pressure.  

Players are also goal shy.  It’s a shambles. 

Agree

2 hours ago, dl4e said:

Season is cooked so the first I would have a look at is Chandler. Forward pocket.. It is a pity about Sparrow. Lockhart I would look at and Dunkley and kk in a few weeks.

Agree but we need to start winning before we bring in the kids.

If we spiral into a second half of say seven more losses I hate to think what will occur to the confidence of this playing group.

To think that at season's commencement I thought our list was stronger than that of the Pies.

so just for discussion sake disposal efficiency is as follows from Coll game:

Harmes 66%, Gawn 53%, Oliver 76%, Brayshaw 56%, Salem 59%, Fritter 69%, Petracca 70%, Hore 67%, May 74%, Baker 67%, Viney 82%, Spargo 59%, Lever 69%, Jones 73%, Hibbard 73%, Hannan 53%, T Mac 42%, Wagner 83%, Weid 54%, Hunt 56%, Garlett 62% 

12 players under 70% 

The worst turnovers were: Hore with 9, Harmes 6,Baker 6 & Brayshaw with 6. T Mac, Hannan, Spargo& Salem all with 5.

Who is our best & most consistent ball user?

1 hour ago, Laughing Goat said:

so just for discussion sake disposal efficiency is as follows from Coll game:

Harmes 66%, Gawn 53%, Oliver 76%, Brayshaw 56%, Salem 59%, Fritter 69%, Petracca 70%, Hore 67%, May 74%, Baker 67%, Viney 82%, Spargo 59%, Lever 69%, Jones 73%, Hibbard 73%, Hannan 53%, T Mac 42%, Wagner 83%, Weid 54%, Hunt 56%, Garlett 62% 

12 players under 70% 

The worst turnovers were: Hore with 9, Harmes 6,Baker 6 & Brayshaw with 6. T Mac, Hannan, Spargo& Salem all with 5.

Who is our best & most consistent ball user?

First, Salem (although Monday performance was an aberration). Second, Melksham.

Preuss  -  4 goals in 2 games

T Mac  -   8 goals in 12 games

 

6 hours ago, Demon3 said:

Why would we drop Garlett? if you look at the numbers he is adding more pressure than anyone in the Fwd 50 and is our leading goal kicker in the last 3 weeks and 4th over all playing only 7 games.

Take Spargo out.. and bring Lockhart in. 

Because, D3, we just cannot afford anyone who "chooses their contests" as Jeffy did more than once v Adelaide. Had he taken his turn when he needed to we would have won that game.   Cost us far more than Weed's uncharacteristic miskick at the death knell that so many talk about.

After watching Casey a number of times this year I am confident that there is no one playing there that would be an improvement over the 22 picked last weekend. The better players are all out injured at present and won't be back any time soon. The only change I would make to last mondays team would be Spargo out for ( take your pick ) but then most would say I am biased. 

7 minutes ago, monoccular said:

Because, D3, we just cannot afford anyone who "chooses their contests" as Jeffy did more than once v Adelaide. Had he taken his turn when he needed to we would have won that game.   Cost us far more than Weed's uncharacteristic miskick at the death knell that so many talk about.

and without his 3 goals we would have lost by more, if Petracca had of taken the simple mark set up by brilliant Garlett creativity then we may have won.. 

 They cant all be Jack Viney and go head first, players are different, they are made of different things. I just reckon Jeff is the least of our problems. Its a good talking point Mono.

4 hours ago, Demon3 said:

Good debate R&BR..  and respect your points of view. Whoever they go with i just hope they hit the scoreboard.

We've hit the score board but can't get it through the big ones! Just hope to have a week where we kick far more goals than points! We've only managed that in 4 games so far, good kicking wins games and lowers the blood pressure of fans i reckon. 

Edited June 12, 20195 yr by Red and Blue realist

20 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

Preuss  -  4 goals in 2 games

T Mac  -   8 goals in 12 games

Preuss at *VFL* level: 5 goals in 5 games. One goal in last three games.

6 goals in 17 VFL games last season at North.

He's a goal-kicking machine.

Edited June 12, 20195 yr by bing181

Out: TMac Spargo J.Wagner Garlett Frost (inj)

In: Preuss Lockhart C.Wagner Lewis Petty

Shuffling deckchairs but TMac has got to go and Preuss at least gives bash n crash (plus has better goal returns).

Lockhart > Spargo 

34 minutes ago, old dee said:

After watching Casey a number of times this year I am confident that there is no one playing there that would be an improvement over the 22 picked last weekend. The better players are all out injured at present and won't be back any time soon. The only change I would make to last mondays team would be Spargo out for ( take your pick ) but then most would say I am biased. 

Agree but I would like to review KK in three more matches. Pity that Casey have a bye just when he and JKH need some match practice.

9 hours ago, Deehumanizing said:

Did anybody else notice that Collingwood seemed to look for whoever May was matching up on. The scored about 5-6 goals with this ploy because whoever he was on was confident of beating him. He is not a one on one defender. 

 

Its funny you should say that. i didn't notice them going through May as such but i was not nearly as impressed with his defensive work as seems to be the consensus on Demonland. I might be wrong but i think May was on De Gooey for much of the day and DG bagged 3 goals (though i doubt all 3 were on May).

I'm not sure about him not being a one on one defender. I certainly hope he is seeing that is precisely what we got him for. 

That said there were a number of occasions where he was beaten but one really struck out. I couldn't help but wonder what scorn would have been heaped on OMac if he had been so easily beaten one on one and turned inside out in the way the way de goey did to May when he kicked his third goal of the afternoon. Or for that matter when May elected to fly for a mark on the half back line rather than spoil or stay down, missed it and gifted them another goal. 

Edited June 12, 20195 yr by binman

3 minutes ago, binman said:

Its funny you should say that. i didn't notice them going through May as such but i was not nearly as impressed with his defensive work as seems to be the consensus on Demonland. I might be wrong but i think May was on De Gooey for much of the day and DG bagged 3 goals (though i doubt all 3 were on May).

I'm not sure about him not being a one on one defender. I certainly hope he is seeing that is precisely what we got him for. 

That said there were a number of occasions where he was beaten but one really struck out. I couldn't help but wonder what scorn would have been heaped on OMac if he hadn't been so easily beaten one on one and turned inside out in the way the way de goey did to May when he kicked his third goal of the afternoon. Or for that matter when May elected to fly for a mark on the half back line rather than spoil or stay down, missed it and gifted them another goal. 

I can't understand why May was on De Goey at all. It wasn't just being caught in transition. He matched up on him in the 6-6-6 formation - the one time when you can truly see who is playing on whom.

I should add I don't agree with the earlier assertion that the Pies went through May as an identified weakness. Rather, I thought May played well. In fact, the defence as a whole did a terrific job.

Edited June 12, 20195 yr by La Dee-vina Comedia

My concern on May early in the game was that the was leaving his man to attack aerial contests but attempting to mark instead of spoil with the result that his man was free. He seemed more effective after quarter time and commentators on The Age podcast complimented his work in repeatedly bodying Cox out of position. They were critical of the fact that Cox had been played at all and said he was outplayed by May.