New Captain

[Robbie57 2,020]

40 minutes ago, old dee said:

Serious question. Do you think he is anything above an average backman?

It's off topic but I do. He is not  Rance but he is a very good backman when fit. Of course my opinion is that of a supporter but I think most commentators at least shared that view when we got him. That said I accept on performances this year he wouldn't get to average.  On topic he is not yet qualified to be in the leadership group.

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

9 hours ago, Win4theAges said:

This probably won't happen, but Jack needs to focus all of his energy in getting his body and form back in 2020.

The Captaincy needs to be our most Influential Player and media performer Maxy Gawn with Tmac as his VC. 

Likely scenario though, Gawny and Jack Co-Captains.

Somebody please explain the benefits of having co-captains to me. 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,326]

22 hours ago, Demon3 said:

Well that is just a ridiculous post, because he has had a great year, built on it really well. Lucky you are not in our FD.

And there in lies the problem,  Dunkley, Bont and McRae have had great years. How does Petracca’s compare to any of those 3? He doesn’t even come close, he can’t even dominate the weaker sides. If the majority of supporters think he’s had a great year that’s one thing, but if FD concur then we are in trouble. I’d rather Liam Ryan in our side right now. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

24 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

And there in lies the problem,  Dunkley, Bont and McRae have had great years. How does Petracca’s compare to any of those 3? He doesn’t even come close, he can’t even dominate the weaker sides. If the majority of supporters think he’s had a great year that’s one thing, but if FD concur then we are in trouble. I’d rather Liam Ryan in our side right now. 

Bulldogs are 8th with a seemingly far better coach, better list, less injuries, better form and on and on. Ridiculous to pick out one player and compare them to an entire other team. And why just Petracca? How does Viney compare to those 3 this year? Brayshaw? Even Oliver? But sure, let's trade out one of the 2 players who has actually improved this year.

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

The Gawn captain campaign is gaining some more momentum after Goody was asked about it on SEN. Gawn was asked by Footy classified on Monday about being captain - there's a small video snippet on twitter of him being asked the question.

In Max's usual style, he was humble about it and joked about his limited captain experience while also saying he's a "Nathan Jones" man. Didn't even mention Viney which was strange. 

https://twitter.com/FootyClassified/status/1163430123304919040

- edit have pasted the link. Got no idea how to embed tweets on DL.

Edited August 21, 2019 by At the break of Gawn

[Demon3 2,541]

4 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

And there in lies the problem,  Dunkley, Bont and McRae have had great years. How does Petracca’s compare to any of those 3? He doesn’t even come close, he can’t even dominate the weaker sides. If the majority of supporters think he’s had a great year that’s one thing, but if FD concur then we are in trouble. I’d rather Liam Ryan in our side right now. 

I don't think that's a great analogy at all, in facts its realy quite flawed, lots of players have had great years, i said Petracca has had a great year, improved as it went on, they are few and far between this year, i wasn't comparing his  year against anyones other than his own. None of out team compare with those 3 you mentioned.

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Demon3

[Sir Why You Little 36,955]

1 hour ago, At the break of Gawn said:

The Gawn captain campaign is gaining some more momentum after Goody was asked about it on SEN. Gawn was asked by Footy classified on Monday about being captain - there's a small video snippet on twitter of him being asked the question.

In Max's usual style, he was humble about it and joked about his limited captain experience while also saying he's a "Nathan Jones" man. Didn't even mention Viney which was strange. 

https://twitter.com/FootyClassified/status/1163430123304919040

- edit have pasted the link. Got no idea how to embed tweets on DL.

Very interesting quote. 

Viney doesn’t exist...

We simply have to get rid of dual Captaincy

i find it divisive on so many levels

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,326]

5 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Bulldogs are 8th with a seemingly far better coach, better list, less injuries, better form and on and on. Ridiculous to pick out one player and compare them to an entire other team. And why just Petracca? How does Viney compare to those 3 this year? Brayshaw? Even Oliver? But sure, let's trade out one of the 2 players who has actually improved this year.

Better list? no, better midfielders, yes. As for my comparison I’m not comparing Petracca to an entire team but 3 players who play between midfield and half forward and have a continual influence on the outcome of games. There are other players he could be compared to but they were just 3 players that came to mind who have had “great years” as opposed to “good”. 

Viney has no worth to other teams and Brayshaw showed us last season what he can do. We’re still waiting for Petracca to arrive, if Saints didn’t need a replacement for Riewoldt he was going pick 1. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that he hasn’t lived up to his potential, we’re in desperate need of star players with elite skills that deliver on a consistent basis. As I have said before we either look to offload him and trade someone in or hold him and hope that he can find another level. I personally think he’s had enough time to deliver and hasn’t so my preference would be to trade him. I believe right now another club would be prepared to offer something in return.

[binman 42,611]

On 8/20/2019 at 3:15 PM, old dee said:

Hope you are right rjay.

I have yet to see it.

Really od? Terrific player and our best defender by a mile. I have been super impressed.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

2 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Better list? no, better midfielders, yes. As for my comparison I’m not comparing Petracca to an entire team but 3 players who play between midfield and half forward and have a continual influence on the outcome of games. There are other players he could be compared to but they were just 3 players that came to mind who have had “great years” as opposed to “good”. 

Viney has no worth to other teams and Brayshaw showed us last season what he can do. We’re still waiting for Petracca to arrive, if Saints didn’t need a replacement for Riewoldt he was going pick 1. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that he hasn’t lived up to his potential, we’re in desperate need of star players with elite skills that deliver on a consistent basis. As I have said before we either look to offload him and trade someone in or hold him and hope that he can find another level. I personally think he’s had enough time to deliver and hasn’t so my preference would be to trade him. I believe right now another club would be prepared to offer something in return.

Hard to argue about the list if you're not looking at alternative scoreboards. They've won a flag and are playing finals again this year. We've made finals once.

Brayshaw has had one almost "great year", let's be honest here. He's been horrible this year.

Petracca has steadily improved every season, but people seem to dismiss that and wait for that magical 'break out' game he's apparently going to have.

Outside of Gawn, a case could be made Petracca has been one of our most consistent players this year. Had a couple of poor games a few rounds in, but aside from that he's has been solidly between 16-20 touches and a goal every game.

He's 23 years old, and has had one whole season out but he's "had enough time". What a ridiculous comment.

The whole idea is just so silly that if you hadn't spent so much time posting about it I would be sure you were joking.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,326]

3 hours ago, Demon3 said:

I don't think that's a great analogy at all, in facts its realy quite flawed, lots of players have had great years, i said Petracca has had a great year, improved as it went on, they are few and far between this year, i wasn't comparing his  year against anyones other than his own. None of out team compare with those 3 you mentioned.

 

Clearly we have different benchmarks on players output and that’s fine. My thoughts are as above.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

4 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Clearly we have different benchmarks on players output and that’s fine. My thoughts are as above.

 

[old dee 23,768]

10 minutes ago, binman said:

Really od? Terrific player and our best defender by a mile. I have been super impressed.

I must have missed the three games he has played this year binman.

if you cannot stay on the field talent is worthless. 

I hope you and rjay are correct because it will be one of the few bright spots of 2019.

Edited August 21, 2019 by old dee

[Neil Crompton 5,449]

19 hours ago, Mel Bourne said:

Somebody please explain the benefits of having co-captains to me. 

Having one verbally polished representative to cover for one that certainly aint.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,326]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

 

Not sure why you posted this. 

Some people saw Hogan as the best young key fwd in the game, a 50 goal per season fwd who was going to dominate the competition for years. Some of us saw him as the fwd that kicked all his goals against bottom 8 sides, couldn’t take a pack mark, went missing in big games and had a questionable goal kicking action. 

Petracca also has his fans and his critics, I’ve seen enough of him to think he’s tradable. 

 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

3 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Not sure why you posted this. 

Some people saw Hogan as the best young key fwd in the game, a 50 goal per season fwd who was going to dominate the competition for years. Some of us saw him as the fwd that kicked all his goals against bottom 8 sides, couldn’t take a pack mark, went missing in big games and had a questionable goal kicking action. 

Petracca also has his fans and his critics, I’ve seen enough of him to think he’s tradable.

Look, I'm not sure why you're now bringing up Hogan as an aside from Petracca in a thread about the next captain, but maybe we should move on as neither of us are going to change our minds. I think Petracca provides us with things we sorely lack, namely delivery inside 50 and ground balls inside 50, and is improving steadily as a player, you want to trade him for reasons I simply can not agree with.

How about that next captain thing then hey?

[Mickey 4,647]

5 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Very interesting quote. 

Viney doesn’t exist...

We simply have to get rid of dual Captaincy

i find it divisive on so many levels

Or, the noise everywhere but here has overwhelmingly been about Jones and whether he should retire/step down, and that's what Max was answering. 

I don't think you can draw any assumption about Viney from his comments

[Sir Why You Little 36,955]

17 minutes ago, Good Lord George said:

Or, the noise everywhere but here has overwhelmingly been about Jones and whether he should retire/step down, and that's what Max was answering. 

I don't think you can draw any assumption about Viney from his comments

I can think what i wish. 

I hate having 2 Captains and always will

ok George

[Mickey 4,647]

22 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I can think what i wish. 

I hate having 2 Captains and always will

ok George

 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,326]

56 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Look, I'm not sure why you're now bringing up Hogan as an aside from Petracca in a thread about the next captain, but maybe we should move on as neither of us are going to change our minds. I think Petracca provides us with things we sorely lack, namely delivery inside 50 and ground balls inside 50, and is improving steadily as a player, you want to trade him for reasons I simply can not agree with.

How about that next captain thing then hey?

Gawn as Captain 

Brayshaw as Vice

As for the leadership group, I’d be waiting until about rd 6 for that. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

Just now, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Gawn as Captain 

Brayshaw as Vice

As for the leadership group, I’d be waiting until about rd 6 for that. 

Come on mate. What reasoning do you have to justify that?

The fact that he refused to chase this year?

The fact he's had a horrendous year he hasn't been able to change?

The fact he was dropped last year for poor training standards?

Can't see any way at all that has any chance of happening.

And wait until the season is a third over before deciding who will lead a famously directionless team? Not sure that's a great strategy.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,326]

4 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Come on mate. What reasoning do you have to justify that?

The fact that he refused to chase this year?

The fact he's had a horrendous year he hasn't been able to change?

The fact he was dropped last year for poor training standards?

Can't see any way at all that has any chance of happening.

And wait until the season is a third over before deciding who will lead a famously directionless team? Not sure that's a great strategy.

No this season wasn’t great for him, but last year was. He was out early last year but I liked the way he went about it upon his return. 

This season showed us that pre season talk means nothing, all the chanting and back slapping equated to nothing. Honestly do players other than 1st - 3rd year players really need a leadership group. Players should be independently mature and have the drive to succeed. By waiting until rd 6 we would see who is actually serious.

[Clayton van Oliver 1,823]

Jesus some of the comments on here. Trade Tracc, trade Brayshaw, May collecting his super and nothing more etc...

If this year has taught me anything it's that we need this ??‍ as an emoticon option on Demonland for 2020.

Edited August 21, 2019 by AmDamDemon

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

13 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Bulldogs are 8th with a seemingly far better coach, better list, less injuries, better form and on and on. Ridiculous to pick out one player and compare them to an entire other team. And why just Petracca? How does Viney compare to those 3 this year? Brayshaw? Even Oliver? But sure, let's trade out one of the 2 players who has actually improved this year.

Here's some stats (averages and a overall weighted score from select averages) from this season so far vs season 2018 for a little bit of objective context LN.  Always have to be careful reading too much into this garb though as players may well be asked to play completely different roles in season, even in game, and from one season to the next of course.  This might effect the comparative results somewhat from one season (or shorter period) to another.

Might have played a more wide ranging / roaming game last season (hence more rebound 50s, inside 50s and 1%ers in defence) vs say most of the first half or more of this season where he appears to have spent more time up forward or HHF....very little drifitng across HB.  Or maybe didn't have the tank to do so as often as last season...poor conditioning/fitness levels like many others!?.  Another sign of the forward bias might be indicated in his overall tackles, down nearly 11%, whereas tackles inside 50 are up substantially by 170%!

A heat map off AFL Stats-Pro might be handy here to see where he has played most of his time this season if anyone has the Telstra account access to this data and can be bothered posting.  Ideally we would need the 2018 map also though.  Probably not available any longer.

Tracc may well have been a tad off vs last season (table shows he is down approx 15%) based on the yearly weighted score comparison.  However he might 'appear' to be better this season (to some) on the field as so many of his fellow players are having a year from hell ie; effectively making Tracc look better than he really is/was vs last season.  At least statistically this appears to be so anyway.  The fellow player/s "steaming pile of dung" rub-off effect, for want of a better term!

Having said that i have witnessed patches this year when he looks the goods.  Patches that i can't recall so much last season in terms of "the level of impact".  That could just be my ageing grey matter, but unfortunately, like last season these patches were just that.  Very patchy!  With Tracc seemingly unable to sustain that heady level for long periods.

Misson factor or just the player's standards / attitude when coming back from a fairly decent 2018?  Team off so much it has dragged him down with them?  Or, he is simply playing a significantly different role and that has meant his stat composition has changed but his actual performance of the new role on field (subjectively depending on where you sit/how you see things), is better than his performance last season even though the weighted score says otherwise?

 

Some extracted data (averages per match) from season 2019 vs 2018.....

Legend:  CP - Contested Possessions  UP - Uncontested  ED - Effective Disposals  DE% - Disposal Efficiency %  CM - Contested Mark  Mi50 - Marks inside 50   1% - One Percenters  CL - Clearances  R50 - Rebound 50  i50 - inside 50s   T - Tackles  Si - Score Involvements  MG - Meters Gained  TO - Turnovers  ITC - Interceptions  T5 - Tackles inside 50  TOG% - Time on Ground %  G - Goals

Edited August 21, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[Lord Nev 13,512]

12 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Here's some stats

Appreciate all the work mate, love this kind of post.

What are your 'selected stats' though? As I reckon even the non-fans of Petracca would admit he's played better this year than last.

Harmes has been ok this year, but would have though holistically he was far better last year. Not totally sold on the system mate.

Petracca being rated in the top 3 general forwards this year by the AFL's Player Ratings also says he's been better this year.

FWIW here's the heat map: