Post Game: Rd 5 v St. Kilda

[Adam The God 30,112]

5 hours ago, Redleg said:

Is doing better forward than I thought he could. If he was isolated one on one like say a Pies entry he would be even better. 

However needs some ruck education, in getting ball to our advantage, but has been a good pickup and can getter much better.

This is spot on. I reckon Preuss' recruitment is a bit inspired by Cox's importance to Collingwood last year, but as you imply, we don't deliver the ball to advantage like Collingwood do. 

The more I read on Demonland today, the more it's obvious that given our statistical dominance is still in most areas, if we can switch up the game style mid-season, we could still win a few games this year.

Edited April 21, 2019 by A F

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

59 minutes ago, Deeko2 said:

Wow I feel sorry for our key forwards , what chance do they have? The only contests they get to are 50m bombs in where they are flying for massive contested grabs each time. I’m a fan of the Weid but he has no chance of out marking multiple men and even when he brings it down it’s just gone so quickly.

TMac struggling even more is worrying. He did have off season surgery but remained one of the fittest in the club with the time trials. He shouldn’t have lost much touch but looks a shell  of his 2018 self.

Still, my biggest worry remains being this crap footy of bombing it in to big contests has got to stop. It’s u/14 rubbish. You’re an afl footballer, lower your eyes and hit a lead for goodness sake. Back your skill. It’s the same crap we whinged about last year when we were playing poorly.

Unfortunately, even though he has played well, Preuss makes it very hard to retain the ball up forward. His hands aren’t great and he adds zero pressure on the deck.

If he is going to stay in (seems likely) then TMac or Weid must go to bring in another quick to lock it in.

We are missing AVB and Hannan more than we are missing Lever/May at present. It’s embarrassing how quickly the ball hits the turf and rebounds so quickly with minimum pressure.

The experiment has a 50/50 hit rate.  Let's not throw the baby out just because we have 2 out of 3 Key Forwards who aren't performing at an acceptable level.

Pruess won't play anyway i don't.think...arm in a sling after the match.

Jeffy for Spargo playing at the feet of Pruess (or the other two) for a start would help (needed this yday).

Stretch is a must in for Cwags and needs a block of 3 games at least.  Might be his last roll of the dice so he needs a fair go,  subject to not performing abysmally early.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[DemonOX 8,779]

18 minutes ago, Storm Boy said:

Can you imagine what Peter Jackson must be thinking now.

Yeah glad I’m out of that nut house. 

[Adam The God 30,112]

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

Also can we talk about why Hibbo was kept on Membery for the entire game when he was tearing him a new one?

No issues dropping OMac but Hibbo is so out of form and was getting dismantled by an average forward. Seems Goodwin won’t drop his bestie from Essendon no matter how badly he is playing. Meantime Stretch can’t get more than one game, because we had to rush an underdone Lewis back to stink it up on the wing. 

Stretch needs to be given a proper string (didn't want a pun) of games to show he can cement his spot.

For years now, Stretch has been in one game and out the next, yet others play terrible games and keep their spots, or do very little but are given a proper go at it.

Given Stretch's professionalism, he can't be any worse than Jones or Lewis on a wing. The latter two are almost always out of position anyway, so I can't for the life of me, understand why Stretch is constantly treated differently from others.

I presume it's an attack on the footy issue that Goodwin doesn't like, but give the kid a bloody chance, like you did with ANB for years.

We're crying out for outside run and at least Stretch has a bit of toe.

Edited April 21, 2019 by A F

[Sir Why You Little 36,955]

30 minutes ago, Storm Boy said:

I'm not looking forward to playing against Carlton. Can you imagine what Peter Jackson must be thinking now.

All that hard work collapsing...

[Adam The God 30,112]

1 hour ago, Skuit said:

That 2018 game-plan took us to a prelim. It also fell down and was countered on a number of occasions - although, we should note, not against two very experienced teams and wily coaches in our (and almost almost all of the players) first two finals at the MCG. Now we just look outright lost and bereft of confidence - which leads to indecision, more pressure and then poorer skills. 

The game-plan was always a high-risk compromise - its major components being players moving forward from behind the ball and trapping it forward. Two major rule changes this year have touched these exact two components. We can no longer have extras running from behind the ball and the kick-in rule allows teams to progress the initial outlet contest further up the field. 

I believe our tentative, finely balanced game-plan is probably now shot - but likely because of the rule changes. The sad thing is that we spent the last four years recruiting for this plan with contested ball-winners and by getting the best defensive personnel available at a high cost to tip the offensive/defensive balance ever so slightly in our favour. I don't know what the answer is now.

See, I don't think this is cause for alarm.

What we have done is recruited players that allow us to control the midfield. That's the first pillar in any great team.

If the game style is shizen though, your hard work at the coal face stands for little.

I truly believe this can be turned around relatively quickly. I'm not convinced it can be turned around in-season, but in 2020, with some new experienced coaches to implement a new system, we can start to properly cash in on our continued midfield dominance. 

[Gator 17,261]

50 minutes ago, Storm Boy said:

I'm not looking forward to playing against Carlton. Can you imagine what Peter Jackson must be thinking now.

Who cares ?  He's an ex employee.

[Skuit 10,030]

9 minutes ago, A F said:

See, I don't think this is cause for alarm.

What we have done is recruited players that allow us to control the midfield. That's the first pillar in any great team.

If the game style is shizen though, your hard work at the coal face stands for little.

I truly believe this can be turned around relatively quickly. I'm not convinced it can be turned around in-season, but in 2020, with some new experienced coaches to implement a new system, we can start to properly cash in on our continued midfield dominance. 

I actually agree and was thinking this just before.

I would love to see Goodwin relax the zone against Richmond and just send the players out for a contested scrap. Let them get some confidence back and play to their attributes.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

2 hours ago, DemonOX said:

To be honest I am just tired of our team and how they continue to disappoint. 

When will it stop??????

Wuh? Haven't you twigged yet? We're all living in a lifelong Greek tragedy. In the end we all die with no premiership. We're trapped with no escape. But please, enjoy the experience.

[PaulRB 6,336]

It’s a social experiment launched in late 1960s, unfortunately the MFC drew the shot straw of “perennial losers”, sad, I know, but on the bright side, the experiment is indicating we’re also highly resilient, passionate and humorous folk as a result... could be worse. ?

[Deemania since 56 6,607]

6 hours ago, Demonsone said:

55 years going strong & MFC continues to find a way to self destruct!

Just added up the numbers myself a few minutes ago  thinking 'How long has it actually been?' You know, this was before your post was read, but By Crikey, I got the same number: 55 years since the glory of the '64 Flag. In a lifetime, that's a considerable amount of anticipation and loyalty. Thanks for the memories, MFC. There are roughly eleven years spared when that lifetime was happiest for some reason or another.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

It's my turn to rant now!!!

/rant over.

Happy Easter everyone. ?

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

3 hours ago, A F said:

I wouldn't say he was good. He had a number of slipped tackles and as usual, was caught underneath the ball multiple times. That said, he was better than most of his defensive mates. Jetta was a shadow of his former self and has been all season. Hibberd was terrible. Hore took some good marks, but was still outmarked too easily at times and turned it over by foot once or twice. 

I know when there's not much else out there to get excited by, the [censored] looks okay. I think that was the case with Frost. He didn't have any obvious brainfarts, but his usual errors were there and I'd actually say his tackling (one of his better traits) was off.

AF the ball was coming in at lightning speed with no light brigade (mid field roll back) in sight most of the time.

Hore has had all of 3 matches to settle, two of those in a losing team, and yes missed the mark a few times yesterday but if we were mostly winning right now many would be lauding the FD for snaring such a super prospect down back.  Hore has given us double the ouput of anything Oscar ever produced even on a day out...in a mere 3 matches!

Frosty far from perfect but solid yesterday IMO.  Again the ball was coming in so easily and quickly they were always going to be caught out on occasions and outplayed.

Let's thank our lucky stars we have two tallish defenders with some height and decent closing speed to close down opponents on occasions (vs stationary witches hats) who are also able to provide us with some run and quick movement off HB, so critical in the modern game.

Hore and Frosty both ranked in our top 10 performers yesterday (4th & 9th repsectively) using the average weighted stats i keep.  Not to shabby.

I also have Hore ranked at No.4 for the season overall (early days but nonetheless impressive) and Frosty ranked 18th (a total of 29 players having played so far up to yesterday).

Edited April 21, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[Diamond_Jim 12,526]

27 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Wuh? Haven't you twigged yet? We're all living in a lifelong Greek tragedy. In the end we all die with no premiership. We're trapped with no escape. But please, enjoy the experience.

and here I was thinking that it was merely an alternative reality and one day I would wake in a world full of lollipop clouds and MFC success.

[Adam The God 30,112]

1 hour ago, Skuit said:

I actually agree and was thinking this just before.

I would love to see Goodwin relax the zone against Richmond and just send the players out for a contested scrap. Let them get some confidence back and play to their attributes.

Particularly, as Richmond's midfield struggles to win clearances.

[Superunknown 4,210]

Halley’s Comet returns in 2061

ongside the next dees flag

i shall be a merry making 83

[dimmy 1,307]

Just as well we have Gus Brayshaw, some people were treading him out last year. He at ;east ;looks for a players when he has space. Two or three beautiful setup in the first hald last night.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

So in summary:

GCS, Bris and Freo have sailed past us.

We have played Ess into form (our gift to Gil). Saints have overtaken us. Even the "mighty" Blues have registered their highest score in 35 years and now live in hope rather than blind faith.

Meanwhile we concede 8 goals in a row (again), appear to have encountered this indigenous game for the first time this season, and slumber at the bottom of the ladder. Our players struggle with the strange oval ball, our coaches can't organise a "(underground tree branch)" in a "(house of ill repute)" and there is no hope in sight.

I've heard it's possible to live on Mars. Anyone know anything about that? Could be worth looking into.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, Mazer Rackham said:

So in summary:

GCS, Bris and Freo have sailed past us.

We have played Ess into form (our gift to Gil). Saints have overtaken us. Even the "mighty" Blues have registered their highest score in 35 years and now live in hope rather than blind faith.

Meanwhile we concede 8 goals in a row (again), appear to have encountered this indigenous game for the first time this season, and slumber at the bottom of the ladder. Our players struggle with the strange oval ball, our coaches can't organise a "(underground tree branch)" in a "(house of ill repute)" and there is no hope in sight.

I've heard it's possible to live on Mars. Anyone know anything about that? Could be worth looking into.

I don't think GCS or Brisbane have.  Freo had a ripping win against the Giants, no doubt about it, but have also struggled at times this season.

I firmly believe that teams haven't gone past us.  We are just in a horrible, horrible funk that we need to find our way out of.

[58er 6,381]

On 4/20/2019 at 7:49 PM, titan_uranus said:

Hore was excellent. Frost was fine. Hunt is trying. 

The rest are woeful. Hibberd is destroying us atm. 

Sorry Hore had goals kicked on him by Membrey but still got some kicks. Ie was loose 

 Agree  with Hibbo he started on Membrey I reckon but he is too slow now and kicking not as good as before.

Spargo Corey And Josh plus Tommy we're terrible Weid had chances but poor disposal let himself down and Milkshake played his worst game for 2 years.

Coaches all had a bad day and no

No moves were tried when the game was in the balance ie 6/7 mins into 3rd quarter.

Modt disappointing loss as Saints were well drilled we weren't.

2018 Game Plan  needs complete update and what have the coaches done all summer  ? Nothing it looks like it !

 

[jnrmac 20,053]

5 hours ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

Paul Roos must be shaking his head privately. Goodwin has effectively hijacked his team, ousted genuine talent in Hogan and Watts. Threw out the defensive structures that Roos instilled and has us back to where we were 4 years ago. It’s simply not good enough. Goodwin is so robotic in his press conferences and seems too stubborn to adapt his game style. Why we signed him for 4 years Ian beyond me. Had one good year. 

He had a good 6 week period.

[titan_uranus 24,969]

4 hours ago, Skuit said:

That 2018 game-plan took us to a prelim. It also fell down and was countered on a number of occasions - although, we should note, not against two very experienced teams and wily coaches in our (and almost almost all of the players) first two finals at the MCG. Now we just look outright lost and bereft of confidence - which leads to indecision, more pressure and then poorer skills. 

The game-plan was always a high-risk compromise - its major components being players moving forward from behind the ball and trapping it forward. Two major rule changes this year have touched these exact two components. We can no longer have extras running from behind the ball and the kick-in rule allows teams to progress the initial outlet contest further up the field. 

I believe our tentative, finely balanced game-plan is probably now shot - but likely because of the rule changes. The sad thing is that we spent the last four years recruiting for this plan with contested ball-winners and by getting the best defensive personnel available at a high cost to tip the offensive/defensive balance ever so slightly in our favour. I don't know what the answer is now.

It's certainly true that our gameplan took us to those two resounding finals wins on the G, plus the Round 23 demolition of GWS too.

But when we struggled last year there were "regular" kick ins and we were able to run one off the back of the square. Taking those away from us is not, I don't think, the reason why we're struggling with the plan this year.

My view is that the style we play has always been high risk high reward, and requires a high level of intensity from all 18 on the field (but particularly the forwards and mids). When our intensity is even slightly off, we concede strings of goals, waste inside 50s, and get beaten soundly by whoever we're playing (whether Richmond/Hawthorn/Collingwood/Sydney, like last year, or St Kilda, like both last year and this year).

What I'm not sure about is whether we need to:

1. Change the plan altogether (i.e. stop using the aggressive high forward press);
2. Make small tweaks to it; or
3. Persist with it and back the players in to improve.

The messaging from Goodwin post-match was that option 3 is the way we are going, and that is in line with the general way I believe he approaches coaching (which can appear overly stubborn at times).

3 hours ago, Skuit said:

I actually agree and was thinking this just before.

I would love to see Goodwin relax the zone against Richmond and just send the players out for a contested scrap. Let them get some confidence back and play to their attributes.

I'm not against this.

I'd like to see the zone set up be less aggressive, for starters. I also want to see 2-3 forwards staying deep when there are stoppages at centre wing or half-back (too regularly we see our deepest forward at a high half-forward, too close to the stoppage to offer a lead at the ball carrier).

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

10 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

He had a good 6 week period.

 

1 minute ago, titan_uranus said:

It's certainly true that our gameplan took us to those two resounding finals wins on the G, plus the Round 23 demolition of GWS too.

But when we struggled last year there were "regular" kick ins and we were able to run one off the back of the square. Taking those away from us is not, I don't think, the reason why we're struggling with the plan this year.

My view is that the style we play has always been high risk high reward, and requires a high level of intensity from all 18 on the field (but particularly the forwards and mids). When our intensity is even slightly off, we concede strings of goals, waste inside 50s, and get beaten soundly by whoever we're playing (whether Richmond/Hawthorn/Collingwood/Sydney, like last year, or St Kilda, like both last year and this year).

What I'm not sure about is whether we need to:

1. Change the plan altogether (i.e. stop using the aggressive high forward press);
2. Make small tweaks to it; or
3. Persist with it and back the players in to improve.

The messaging from Goodwin post-match was that option 3 is the way we are going, and that is in line with the general way I believe he approaches coaching (which can appear overly stubborn at times).

I'm not against this.

I'd like to see the zone set up be less aggressive, for starters. I also want to see 2-3 forwards staying deep when there are stoppages at centre wing or half-back (too regularly we see our deepest forward at a high half-forward, too close to the stoppage to offer a lead at the ball carrier).

Other than a few phases through the Swooper years forward craft has never been our forte TU.  The Saints seem to be benefiting already from a little bit of advice from Dermy although our defence is not exactly the greatest test ATM.  They must be doing something right in this area so far though given their ladder position.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

6 hours ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

Paul Roos must be shaking his head privately. Goodwin has effectively hijacked his team, ousted genuine talent in Hogan and Watts. Threw out the defensive structures that Roos instilled and has us back to where we were 4 years ago. It’s simply not good enough. Goodwin is so robotic in his press conferences and seems too stubborn to adapt his game style. Why we signed him for 4 years Ian beyond me. Had one good year. 

Lets hope his tenure doesn't damage us as badly as Malthouse did coaching the Blues.

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

On 4/20/2019 at 7:29 PM, watchtheeyes said:

Nice to read some proper, level headed analysis!

Couldn’t agree more. The whole ‘win the ball at source’ philosophy is fine, but you better dominate in there.

A territory game can also be fine, but you better have the players, and in our case we went in with 3 talls.

And the game awareness/structure in the D50 is shocking, which fees like Chaplin. Or they relied on May and when he went down we weren’t prepared.

Lewis, Jones are clearly now liabilities.. so what the hell were they doing on the wings against such a fast team?

Why the hell didn’t we send TMac back? Petracca to the ball? Fritsch forward? Anything at all?

I hate the rubbish about ‘not trying’, ‘no heart’, in my view this is never the reason. In this case it was coaching, all over the place. Just. Dreadful.

 

What I noticed at the game yest is we are way over balanced on the inside. In almost every stoppage Saints had two in the defensive outside. if we won the stoppage their pressure would make us cough up or lead to ineffective disposal. When they win the contest they would just handball backwards,  knowing they were there , and slingshot into f50. I couldn't believe the coaching staff didnt do anything to stop this. just the same old win the contested ball... but its mean nothing if we get burnt on the outside and just bomb it forward.