11 minutes ago, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

What's stopping us from just drafting Martin in the PSD. Won't we be able to determine his contract size and length - or does Martin/his management have any say in what he gets paid?

He can dictate his contract. Given Carlton were willing to pay him 700k and Papley 900k and got neither of them the assumption is he could nominate with his 4 years at 700k but structured as year 1 - 1.5 M, years 2-4 433k per year.

Doubt those are the real numbers or if it would go anything near that high but the rumoured 600k we had for Elliott or some other mystery forward would have to be stretched a long way and there's every chance we've already spent that on frontloading Tomlinson and Langdon.

I don't know how much you can change existing contracts and the impact on the salary cap.

Plus I'm assuming we have a bush league system where the Martin contract as above is counted against the cap in a similar way instead of a smoothing of cap numbers over the length of the deal. Frontloading should only be allowed up to a certain percentage (ie. 50% over the average figure and not 200%).

Mods, any good reason we can't delete our own posts?

Edited October 17, 20195 yr by demonstone
query

10 minutes ago, Kelpien said:

We don't play hardball though. If we're told to stay away we stay away. Geelong, Fremantle or Essendon would just pick him. Come to think of it they'd want to go to Geelong or Essendon.

Yeah but it's not about what we want, it's about what we can afford. We can't afford him, we need to convince him to put his name up for less money. If Adelaide and Freo, teams who likely have big cap space after many player's leaving, were between us and Carlton in the PSD start we might be able to say "come to us for $500k instead of $700k, beats moving to Adelaide"

Edited October 17, 20195 yr by ArtificialWisdom

Either we draft him and he plays for us or we draft him and he has a sook and sits out for a year. We should nominate him regardless of his dealings with Carlton. It's time for the club to start playing hardball. [censored] Carlton getting a freebie. They've had more than enough!

If we draft him and he has a sook and sits out for a year, we've just wasted a spot on our list and nobody wins.

1 hour ago, A F said:

I reckon this is the case. So before some go you go mouthing off at 'how could we possibly not be able to afford him', think about this.

surely you would do any front-loading at the last moment when everyone that will be is on-board

Looks like he still wants to get to Carlton.

20 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

He can dictate his contract. Given Carlton were willing to pay him 700k and Papley 900k and got neither of them the assumption is he could nominate with his 4 years at 700k but structured as year 1 - 1.5 M, years 2-4 433k per year.

Doubt those are the real numbers or if it would go anything near that high but the rumoured 600k we had for Elliott or some other mystery forward would have to be stretched a long way and there's every chance we've already spent that on frontloading Tomlinson and Langdon.

I don't know how much you can change existing contracts and the impact on the salary cap.

Plus I'm assuming we have a bush league system where the Martin contract as above is counted against the cap in a similar way instead of a smoothing of cap numbers over the length of the deal. Frontloading should only be allowed up to a certain percentage (ie. 50% over the average figure and not 200%).

Right, doesnt seem fair that a club can just reject any deals and then bully contract figures to force him to their club. Also seems ridiculous if they could frontend roughly 1.5mil or so of a contract but its looking like thats the way its going to crumble. Only hope is that May and Kolo can convince him otherwise. I dont doubt that we’d be able to pay him close to what Carlton will per year, but that high front ending seems to be the issue

If he goes into the draft he has to nominate the $$ he wants. This gives all clubs a chance to evaluate drafting him or not.

If the $ suit us and we the club wants him I say go for it.

6 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Looks like he still wants to get to Carlton.

i suspect that carlton have always planned to get a freebie via the psd 

pretty rough on suns to end up with nothing

Just now, manny100 said:

If he goes into the draft he has to nominate the $$ he wants. This gives all clubs a chance to evaluate drafting him or not.

If the $ suit us and we the club wants him I say go for it.

all clubs don't have a chance

he will only go into psd where carlscum have pick3

has said he won't go back to suns so that leaves only us, and his management have said they don't want to talk to us

plus most clubs won't have any list spots left for psd anyway

carlscum have gamed the system beautifully

19 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

Either we draft him and he plays for us or we draft him and he has a sook and sits out for a year. We should nominate him regardless of his dealings with Carlton. It's time for the club to start playing hardball. [censored] Carlton getting a freebie. They've had more than enough!

Why would you draft a player who doesn't want to play for you and he's already shown he doesn't perform in an environment where he's not happy.

I'm all for us trying at the right price, get Nev and Flash to meet and chat with him. If he's still adamant he doesn't want to come then don't take him

36 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

Either we draft him and he plays for us or we draft him and he has a sook and sits out for a year. We should nominate him regardless of his dealings with Carlton. It's time for the club to start playing hardball. [censored] Carlton getting a freebie. They've had more than enough!

Yes, see this is where the draft falls down, once a player enters the draft it's supposed to be open slather for anyone to pick them up, no draft tampering, no refusing to play with certain clubs. But of course the AFL just turns a blind eye.

1 hour ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Manager just on SEN advised Melbourne have been in contact with him and he advised Melbourne Jack was focused on joining Carlton 

As Jack Hannath was focused on us, when Freo grabbed him!

I have a feeling Eddie Betts has helped with Martin's decision.

This is a fantastic opportunity to get a really talented though inconsistent player for nothing. 

We need to go hard with all of our resources, IF we want him. Whether that is getting Jetta, Davey, Whelan, Farmer, Barassi, Neitz, Lyon, Goodwin etc to talk to him, or whoever.  

Edited October 17, 20195 yr by Redleg

29 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Looks like he still wants to get to Carlton.

And i still want to play for the MFC, but at least i've accepted that it just isn't meant to be

Ironically Carlton were the last club to draft a player through the PSD who wanted to go to the Magpies. A Port player. Port were not satisfied with the offer and let him go into the PSD. Carlton snapped him up.

Once a player gets to the club they settle quickly. It comes down to whether we want him and can afford his asking price. Unless we advise him that we have no interest then he is in exactly the same boat as every other player nominated. You go where you are called in the draft. If we call him if he wants to play its with us. You can bet he will not walk away from the game.

He can blame Carlton for not paying up.

 

2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

As Jack Hannath was focused on us, when Freo grabbed him!

I have a feeling Eddie Betts has helped with Martin's decision.

This is a fantastic opportunity to get a really talented though inconsistent player for nothing. 

We need to go hard with all of our resources, IF we want him. Whether that is getting Jetta, Davey, Whelan, Farmer, Barassi, Neitz, Lyon etc to talk to him, or whoever.  

Yes see my post 262

41 minutes ago, demonstone said:

If we draft him and he has a sook and sits out for a year, we've just wasted a spot on our list and nobody wins.

And he gets banned from playing for 2 years.

Can you imagine the Cats or Hawks letting a player like Martin slide by in the draft. No way because they play it hard. They would make the call and then work on settling the player.

 

I ...

23 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Why would you draft a player who doesn't want to play for you and he's already shown he doesn't perform in an environment where he's not happy.

You wouldn't do it but right now, I suspect that he's invested in Carlton because they sold him a dream and offered him the right amount of dollars for him to buy in.

Martin's manager is making all the right noises about the Carlton Dream including claiming that we can't afford him. Well, we could afford Jamie Elliott and if Martin is worth $200kpa more then that could be saved by delisting players we have yet to contract. Trading and drafting is about improving your list by getting the best available players.

If Martin can play - and I suggest that he can be good with the right coaching and in the right environment, why aren't we having a crack at selling him the dream and getting him on board?

23 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Why would you draft a player who doesn't want to play for you and he's already shown he doesn't perform in an environment where he's not happy.

I'm all for us trying at the right price, get Nev and Flash to meet and chat with him. If he's still adamant he doesn't want to come then don't take him

Martin is on holiday in Europe for the next month, can imagine it’s going to be hard for us to properly get into his ear about joining up

There's no way to convince him if we can't even talk to him. 

And there's no way to talk to him if there's no threat of us taking him because his contract is impossible to match.

In fact the best way to get him might be to deny any interest at all and hope Carlton and his manager then relax on the contract demands and put him in to the draft with something we can match.

What's the plan here guys? Hostage situation?

Just now, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

Martin is on holiday in Europe for the next month, can imagine it’s going to be hard for us to properly get into his ear about joining up

Where abouts? If we can drag him to Eastern Europe I think our odds of a successful kidnapping increase significantly

Skype anyone?