POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Geelong

[Dee Zephyr 19,269]

Still shaking head at the end margin. I witnessed a lot of effort from most on the night. I look at efforts like Melksham’s in the third and wonder why. The Cats were rebounding broadcast side halfback/wing in the third, our defenders all push to that side to block options leaving Parfitt alone on the outer wing and pushing in behind our defence for an easy out the back option. The Milkshake spots this and sprints 100 meters from our forward 50 to man him up. How can you knock that?

The game was alive I thought 10 minutes into the third when 20 points down and playing the game on our terms. Couldn’t buy a goal when it mattered and you could sense once they went forward they would score.

I lost count as to how many Geelong goals came within 25m of goal. Big problem but can be fixed hopefully. Also, we’ve allowed goals in our defensive 50 from stoppages too easily so far. Hope the coaches work overtime this week and rectify these issues quickly.

All it takes is one ugly win to get back on track, please let it be Friday night.

[JV7 2,356]

What has me most annoyed is... All I wanted was to start the season well. Chances are we weren't going to win the flag, obviously only 1 team can but I just wanted us to start the season well & believe we can win it, after 7 or 8 rounds be 6-1 or 7-1 & feel like we can win it even if we don't. Now it feels like unless something drastically happens we won't be contenders this year, season that promised so much is shot down in 2 rounds

Edited March 31, 2019 by JV7

[John Demonic 5,859]

12 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It all fell apart in the Prelim, and it looks exactly the same tonight. 

What was achieved over summer? Denial

Goodwin is under serious pressure now

We barely managed to put it together in the first place, i've been saying it all off-season, we were lucky to beat Hawthorn as they missed so many shots on goal that night with Clarko possession footy controlling us until we kicked away. And we were lucky to get WCE and GWS who were already cemented in the 8 in r22/23. Until then we hadn't beaten a top 8 team.

We all had a big laugh at the Selwood/Harmes infringement on the boundary, but why? Not because we were up by 10 goals but because Hawkins had a shot on goal reversed with the momentum swinging their way. Rose colored glasses about that final month last year. We've always had this massive issue of bombing it mindlessly into the forward 50.

Edited March 31, 2019 by John Demonic

[picket fence 17,549]

11 hours ago, Beetle said:

Exactly, when was the last time you can remember a Melbourne player hitting a clean pin point pass to a player on the lead inside 50?

Rob Flower to David Williams 1987!

[Wiseblood 24,637]

2 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

We barely managed to put it together in the first place, i've been saying it all off-season, we were lucky to beat Hawthorn as they missed so many shots on goal that night. And we were lucky to get WCE and GWS who were already cemented in the 8. We all had a big laugh at the Selwood/Harmes infringement? Not because we were up by 10 goals but because Hawkins had a shot on goal with the momentum their way. Rose colored glasses about that final month last year.

That's it, entirely strip away the hard work and effort the players put in to get themselves into a Prelim.  It wasn't them, it was completely down to everything else going our way, from getting teams already in the eight to somehow luckily getting a free kick or have a team miss a few shots.

What a joke of a post.

[Adam The God 30,431]

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We just couldn't buy a goal and they kicked one every time they went forward. We actually dominated the game from midway through the 2nd until midway through the 3rd but only kicked one goal. We had something like 20 inside 50s in a row! They then take it down and kick 4 goals from 4 inside 50s and the games done.

The result is disappointing but it's not the end of the world. We get a chance to reset against the Bombers on Friday who have enough problems of their own. People need to have some faith, far too many just want to get stuck in and jump off the minute things look too hard.

This bit seems incongruous mate given you turned it off yourself at 3/4 quarter time.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

3 hours ago, praha said:

I want to believe you. The Hawks game broke me last year and to be honest, ever since that loss I have been very indifferent about this team and its potential. I went to the ANZAV Eve game for the spectacle, after that though I didn't attend or watch a match again until after we had won 3 in a row. And even then my interest had waned. The finals were fun.

2012-2017 absolutely burnt me out. Last week I saw as just a loss, "win some lose some", but losses like last night...they bring back this weird sensation where I actually stop caring. I used to care so much after losses like this when we weren't even close to finals. But now that we're in the running, I am completely indifferent. 

I doubt many are like me but if you wanted to know how some of us felf after that match...well, it essentially ruined football for me. Last night I laughed more than anything and shook my head, whereas two years ago I'd have been throwing my cigarettes at the screen. After they kicked 4 goals from 4 inside 50s in the third, I put on Monsters Inc for a giggle and fell asleep before the final siren. 

My point is that losses like the Hawthorn game, and last night. After everything we've been through as a fanbase, for some of us it's actually made us realise how much of a waste of energy football is. To be honest it's been a wake up call for me. I hope some of you can end up like me tbh. Feeling indifferent and not caring so much makes the losses much easier to deal with.

You're not alone Praha.  I've been indifferent since the Essendrug peptide years.  The AFL then tried their best to get the druggies off (nothing to see here) before all were dragged kicking and screaming into some sort of truth/justice by WADA with the resulting fall out for the code and some within the system.

My indifference is a combo, not solely just the MFC follies, albeit i would be lying if i said that hasn't played a part.

The manner in which the AFL has gone about changing / massaging it has left me very non-plussed (about the whole comp!)

Some examples that continue to stand out for me...

- Introduction and continuation of 120 plus interchange leading to the rolling mall/congestion.  Yes some recognition that it was a ridiculous number and now 90 but the AFL had to be dragged into dropping it to that still very high number.

- An attempt to manafacure a solution to the congestion brought on by their own rediculous interchange with 6/6/6 and the  kick in extension.

- Ignoring (or turning a blind eye/failing to effectively address) the blatant increase of throwing/flicking the ball by most players / clubs in order to move the ball more quickly out of the increased congestion brought about by the still  high Interchange limit.

- Unable to clear up the constant holding the ball inconsistancies and extreme  variation of its interpretation.

- The virtual elimination of the centre bounce

- The continual bias of the AFL's fixture giving the bigger clubs a leg up every  year (in particilar the Pies).

- The introduction of the 2 interstate clubs, ignoring Tassie footy and raiding the drafts/ AFL coffers in order to prop them up whilst also diluting the better players across more teams bringing the standard of the comp down a cog or two (outside of the top 6 or so) and widening the gap between the big clubs who are still able to get the best players following the introduction of free trade (and no restriction on those trades going to the top clubs).

Edited March 31, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[John Demonic 5,859]

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

That's it, entirely strip away the hard work and effort the players put in to get themselves into a Prelim.  It wasn't them, it was completely down to everything else going our way, from getting teams already in the eight to somehow luckily getting a free kick or have a team miss a few shots.

What a joke of a post.

We hadn't beaten a top 8 team until round 22. How do you explain that? Or is it filed neatly away in the denial drawer?

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, John Demonic said:

We hadn't beaten a top 8 team until round 22. How do you explain that? Or is it filed neatly away in the denial drawer?

What does that prove?

We beat four of them in a row when the pressure of the season was at it's peak.  Or is that down to the sun getting in the opposition's eyes, or their shorts being a touch tight, thus not allowing them to run hard and chase us?

[Cassiew 1,903]

Finally I agree with what Goodwin said. There ar no excuses. Just a miserable day alone made all the more miserable knowing what happened last night ?

[Sir Why You Little 37,165]

1 minute ago, John Demonic said:

We hadn't beaten a top 8 team until round 22. How do you explain that? Or is it filed neatly away in the denial drawer?

Certain people refuse to learn from past experience. 

Goodwin has to be very careful these next few weeks. Coaches come and go out of this place  i want him to survive, but denial  won’t help him, his Gameplan is failing...

Fix it or it will fix you

We have all seen it before, Rinse and Repeat

[titan_uranus 25,045]

I haven't seen the game but it's not hard to imagine what it would have looked like.

I can see it now - midfield getting enough of the ball at stoppages but when they get their hands on it there's no link-up of handpasses to break into space and deliver a measured ball inside 50. It's grab it and then kick it straight away.

Geelong have one of the best defences in the league but we went into the game with no small forwards and three key forwards who are all out of form, and then we continued to play non-forwards as half-forwards. That all means we get the ball inside 50 a stack but we have no ability to mark it or to crumb it. So it comes back out again.

But we've set up to keep it in our forward half so we often get it back off Geelong and repeat our attempt to score. Eventually, though, Geelong get through our press and they have an acre of space in their forward half to work with. They take shots from in front, they make the most of them, and they isolate weak defenders.

We looked liked this in the Hawthorn and Richmond losses last year, when we slumped to 2-3. We had threads like this. We had calls for Goodwin's head. We had questions over our gameplan. Then we won 6 straight. This is the only thing which is keeping me from thinking the season is shot already.

But things need to change. We need to do something to shake up the stagnation of our mid-level players - we can't keep carrying OMac, Frost, Hunt, Petracca and ANB in the form they are in and just hope they improve. They're not improving. 

We need to think about our forward line and the way we try to target TMac and Weideman. They need to work harder on how they operate as the two talls.

We need to do something about Petracca. Drop him, change his role, something. 

We need to stop giving games to players who aren't ready for AFL football (Hore and Sparrow last week, KK and Lockhart this week).

And we desperately need to win on Friday. Essendon is probably the only side in the league so far to play football as bad, or worse, than what we've displayed. There is a glimmer of hope in the next month - Essendon, Sydney (0-2, out of form), St Kilda (the worst 2-0 side in AFL history?), Richmond (out of form, possibly no Riewoldt). A confidence-boosting win on Friday, in prime time, could do us wonders. A loss might just destroy us.

[beelzebub 23,383]

Einstein had a theory about repeating something that's not working ?

[P-man 13,366]

3 hours ago, Smokey said:

The end score is obviously unkind and forgettable, but take a deep breath everyone. 

We won inside 50s and clearances. That is an improvement. Guys like Clarry and Max and Viney are responding and getting back to their normal outputs. Now we just need T Mac to rediscover some form and we should start resembling ourselves again. There are probably a few more to mention but I reckon t macs current form is hurting us the most right now as we rely on him for a lot in the forward 50. 

Most here conceded that we had a very interrupted pre season with many surgeries, and far shorter than we’ve been used to in over a decade to boot. Well it’s only round 2 and this is still obviously a huge factor from what I’m seeing. 

Again, take a deep breath. I think we’ll be fine and the panic stations some have arrived at already mostly reflects your lack of mental resilience more than anything else. Many here comment on how the boys will handle the expectation that’s been put on us this year, well most of you are failing that same test right now by throwing your toys out of the cot after 2 games. 

That’s all fair enough although TMac does concern me. If our fortunes hinge on his form like you suggest then that’s a worry. Last season he had Hogan as a foil a lot of the time. Being the main man and partnering up with Weids is a very different story.

Others have pointed to the Hawks loss last season which is fine. In that instance our zone wa too high and teams were getting out the back with acres of space and scoring with ease. We saw a similar thing happening last night, although our backline and forwstdline somehow looks even more dysfunctional this time around, and there is a seeming inability to defend the ground balls. Once it hits the deck it is advantage to the opposition almost every time. So there are additional things to rectify. That is I think what many people are alarmed by.

We are also again getting too many players drawn to the ball and getting killed on the outside. I understand we play a heavily conetsted game but surely the balance there can be improved somewhat.

I don’t think anyone who has reacted strongly to the result is a weak supporter as there are some very real concerns including the overall quality and balance of the list which I think some have overrated, although that’s a separate topic.  In the cold light of day I can “take a breath” and see the positives, namely the vast improvement of our engine room which is what our game is based upon. It’s the other areas that need to be fixed quickly as we need to capitalise on the upcomong fixtures. Which certainly, we are capable of doing.

It’s not season over but Goodwin is going to really start earning his pay. This season and those beyond. He has not been handed the keys to a Ferrari by any stretch.

 

 

[titan_uranus 25,045]

A couple of things I keep thinking about:

1. Last year we were the league leaders in quarters won. At one stage we won 20 straight. This year we're 1-7 and we've lost 7 in a row.
2. Last year we were the highest scoring side in the league, averaging 104.5 points in the home/away season. This year it's taken us two games to score 107 points and that's less than Fremantle, one of the league's lowest-scoring sides in 2018, scored in Round 1 alone.
3. We've already lost the contested possession count this year the same number of times we lost it in the entire 2018 season.

[Sir Why You Little 37,165]

3 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

A couple of things I keep thinking about:

1. Last year we were the league leaders in quarters won. At one stage we won 20 straight. This year we're 1-7 and we've lost 7 in a row.
2. Last year we were the highest scoring side in the league, averaging 104.5 points in the home/away season. This year it's taken us two games to score 107 points and that's less than Fremantle, one of the league's lowest-scoring sides in 2018, scored in Round 1 alone.
3. We've already lost the contested possession count this year the same number of times we lost it in the entire 2018 season.

Goodwin’s gameplan and tactics were smashed wide open during the first half of last years Preliminary Final. 

As yet there is no Plan B alternative 

[Jaded No More 68,974]

4 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

A couple of things I keep thinking about:

1. Last year we were the league leaders in quarters won. At one stage we won 20 straight. This year we're 1-7 and we've lost 7 in a row.
2. Last year we were the highest scoring side in the league, averaging 104.5 points in the home/away season. This year it's taken us two games to score 107 points and that's less than Fremantle, one of the league's lowest-scoring sides in 2018, scored in Round 1 alone.
3. We've already lost the contested possession count this year the same number of times we lost it in the entire 2018 season.

Thanks for the Sunday deperession 

[Adam The God 30,431]

3 hours ago, Smokey said:

The end score is obviously unkind and forgettable, but take a deep breath everyone. 

We won inside 50s and clearances. That is an improvement. Guys like Clarry and Max and Viney are responding and getting back to their normal outputs. Now we just need T Mac to rediscover some form and we should start resembling ourselves again. There are probably a few more to mention but I reckon t macs current form is hurting us the most right now as we rely on him for a lot in the forward 50. 

Most here conceded that we had a very interrupted pre season with many surgeries, and far shorter than we’ve been used to in over a decade to boot. Well it’s only round 2 and this is still obviously a huge factor from what I’m seeing. 

Again, take a deep breath. I think we’ll be fine and the panic stations some have arrived at already mostly reflects your lack of mental resilience more than anything else. Many here comment on how the boys will handle the expectation that’s been put on us this year, well most of you are failing that same test right now by throwing your toys out of the cot after 2 games. 

I find this super patronising. Did you go last night and stand in the rain and the cold for three hours? If you didn't, I'd take a seat from this discussion. 

It may well be that you sat at home in the warmth of your house and then maybe switched it off at half time, but as someone who goes every week and cops the smarmy abuse and derision of opposition supporters, it's pretty rich to read a supposed Melbourne supporter refer to other Melbourne supporters (particularly those that go each week and have for years) as having a "lack of mental resilience".

I utterly hate this line of thinking, particularly from our supposed own. The fact that the majority of us are still here is an absolute testament to our resilience, after years of pitiful performances and like last night, thoroughly embarrassing scorelines. Have a bit of pride in yourself and your football club. An 80 point loss is unacceptable any way you dice it, and if people are upset and can see the writing was on the wall, as rjay did (and I certainly did after JLT2), they're actually being analytical and realistic about what we're delivering and likely to deliver, and what that means for the season ahead.

Go and level your lack of resilience comments at Carlton supporters who won a flag in the 90s but many have jumped off since or Essendon, who made finals two years ago and have all jumped off after dominating the late 90s and early 2000s. They are the supporters with mentally weak attitudes. We've the longest drought in AFL history and we won't be winning the flag this year either.

Sometimes in life you need to look at what's in front of you and admit when there's something drastically wrong. That doesn't mean we should stop going along and supporting, but it does call for realistic debate and discussion, and deriding people for their mental resilience and telling them to "take a deep breath" is not particularly helpful in my book.

Now the rant is over and I'll take a seat.

[P-man 13,366]

6 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

A couple of things I keep thinking about:

1. Last year we were the league leaders in quarters won. At one stage we won 20 straight. This year we're 1-7 and we've lost 7 in a row.
2. Last year we were the highest scoring side in the league, averaging 104.5 points in the home/away season. This year it's taken us two games to score 107 points and that's less than Fremantle, one of the league's lowest-scoring sides in 2018, scored in Round 1 alone.
3. We've already lost the contested possession count this year the same number of times we lost it in the entire 2018 season.

Not pretty. At all.

There is more work involved to turn the ship around this time. But it is Round 2. It can be done.

[beelzebub 23,383]

7 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

A couple of things I keep thinking about:

1. Last year we were the league leaders in quarters won. At one stage we won 20 straight. This year we're 1-7 and we've lost 7 in a row.
2. Last year we were the highest scoring side in the league, averaging 104.5 points in the home/away season. This year it's taken us two games to score 107 points and that's less than Fremantle, one of the league's lowest-scoring sides in 2018, scored in Round 1 alone.
3. We've already lost the contested possession count this year the same number of times we lost it in the entire 2018 season.

Thanks TU

Sobering.

[Perthdemon 5]

I was otherwise consumed last night so didn't watch the game live. I watched it this morning despite my better judgment and have come away feeling really confused. The overriding reality is that we were dismantled far too easily and embarrassed on the scoreboard. But there were bits I liked from certain players. The worrying sign is that our game plan looks like it needs a major overhaul and quickly. The positive for me is that I think it can be a quick fix if the coaching staff have the courage to mix things up. If not, it smells a lot like the Bulldogs post their premiership year. 

[P-man 13,366]

2 minutes ago, Perthdemon said:

I was otherwise consumed last night so didn't watch the game live. I watched it this morning despite my better judgment and have come away feeling really confused. The overriding reality is that we were dismantled far too easily and embarrassed on the scoreboard. But there were bits I liked from certain players. The worrying sign is that our game plan looks like it needs a major overhaul and quickly. The positive for me is that I think it can be a quick fix if the coaching staff have the courage to mix things up. If not, it smells a lot like the Bulldogs post their premiership year. 

This thought did occur to me as well. The Dogs’ high was a premiership. Our high would be a flogging in a prelim.

Ah. The life of a Melbourne supporter.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

2 hours ago, Demonsone said:

Reality Simon we leak too many goals too easily & have been doing since last year .. Prelim final great example.. so what if we have more inside 50s when the other side kicks 20 goals ..need to play both ways which is what Roos implemented & now appears to be thrown out the window 

Talk about running both ways i was amazed at how often Oliver seemed to be the last bloke chasing them into their goals. WTF were everyone else? 

[Adam The God 30,431]

3 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I'll weigh in with some things that baffle me.

ANB had 8 possessions at 44% efficiency last night. Came out of the draft as an inside mid who was known for throwing it on the boot. Tom Sparrow is an inside mid whose weakness is his ball use and is playing his second game. 

Both of those guys were our half-forwards.

Compare to Geelong's half-forwards. Miers, Rohan and Dalhaus. Dynamic and skillful players who are true forwards.

That's one example of where Goodwin is failing.

 

Backline -

Why would he bring Steven May in to play a Jake Lever role?  He is a one-on-one specialist and should have been on Hawkins from start to finish.

How many times do Melbourne defenders fly for the same spoil? At one time, I saw four in the air with some leaving their opponents on the ground to pick-up loose ball. How long are we going to continue leaking such easy goals? Why do they all try to be superman and then look at each other in such a confused way when the ball bobbles only to result in a goal?

Goodwin needs to change our defensive system, that is one thing I'm sure of. This rotating on players, guarding of space carp is becoming ridiculous. We continue to leak goals and cannot seem to stop runs of goals. We're far too aggressive as a backline.

 

Mids - 

We've drafted for contested players. Naturally, they gravitate to the contest and this is a massive issue for when we try and win the ball but don't. It means all of our mids are in the same small area and oppo teams will just hand-ball out of traffic to a man in space.

We see ball, get ball and bang ball forward without a care. This system will not always work and is not always necessary when there's space and time to look to where the best option is.

I am so so sick of seeing players kick as quickly as possible forward without a care. 

There must be a change to this. West Coast and now the first two rounds. Signs are not good.

I agree with all this, Steve, but it sounds like you're being a little negative. Are we finally allowed to say the signs are not good now are we? 

[jnrmac 20,189]

At one point in the 3rd qtr we had something like 14 i50s for 2 pts and they had 4 entries for 4 goals.

There rebound was exceptional. Our defence of it was abysmal. The 'gameplan' a=of getting it the fwd 50 raidly and holding it in there is so 2018. Can't be done with the kick in rules and players that refuse to play a zone like they are supposed to.

Doesn't help when you have defenders that can't defend one on one.

What has happened to Hibberd?

I don't think players have drunk their own bathwater because there wouldn't have been any left after Trac and TMac have drunk it the lot.

as someone quoted earlier "so many passengers and no one to replace them with"

WTF have we been doing all pre-season?