POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Geelong

[Dr. Gonzo 24,461]

9 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Our response, if you look at individuals, was good in some areas.  Oliver, Gus, Viney and Gawn, for example, all played much better than last week, which is quite hard to believe when you look at the result.

But the gameplan, coupled with some seriously out of form players, an injury to May and bringing in someone like KK who will need time to get match fitness up and assimilate whatever the gameplan is at the moment, means that we have copped an absolute hiding tonight even with that improvement.

It's such a strange outcome.

Agree mate I actually thought we played much better than last week (although I stopped watching at 3/4 time).

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,315]

I'm surprised how calm I am after that result. The effort was there from 90% of the team for the whole match. We smashed them in the clearances, but we failed to score and capitalise, whilst they scored with ease. 

I realise we are underdone due to post season surgeries and the shorter preseason that is foreign to us but I'm not sure how much we can use that as an excuse. Clarrie had arguably the most debilitating of surgeries and he was back to his best last night,  Viney too was looking more like what we expect of him. 

It's clearly the game plan that is the issue here. At one stage we had 32 inside 50s without a goal,  while they had 4 goals from 4 entries. 

Has any team in the history of the game had 25 more inside 50s and lost by 80 points? 

Game plan needs a royal commission this week.

[Smokey 4,391]

The end score is obviously unkind and forgettable, but take a deep breath everyone. 

We won inside 50s and clearances. That is an improvement. Guys like Clarry and Max and Viney are responding and getting back to their normal outputs. Now we just need T Mac to rediscover some form and we should start resembling ourselves again. There are probably a few more to mention but I reckon t macs current form is hurting us the most right now as we rely on him for a lot in the forward 50. 

Most here conceded that we had a very interrupted pre season with many surgeries, and far shorter than we’ve been used to in over a decade to boot. Well it’s only round 2 and this is still obviously a huge factor from what I’m seeing. 

Again, take a deep breath. I think we’ll be fine and the panic stations some have arrived at already mostly reflects your lack of mental resilience more than anything else. Many here comment on how the boys will handle the expectation that’s been put on us this year, well most of you are failing that same test right now by throwing your toys out of the cot after 2 games. 

[praha 11,263]

48 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I wonder how many of you had the same reactions after the Hawks beat us by a similar margin in Round 4 last year? We already had a couple of wins on the board by then too, so that result was even less expected. 

Things are never as bad as they seem. We had roughly 55 inside 50s in that Hawks game for just six goals, yet we quickly righted the ship and the rest was history. 

We might have some injuries and fitness issues to deal with at the minute, but we have the talent and the competitiveness to turn things around. 

I want to believe you. The Hawks game broke me last year and to be honest, ever since that loss I have been very indifferent about this team and its potential. I went to the ANZAV Eve game for the spectacle, after that though I didn't attend or watch a match again until after we had won 3 in a row. And even then my interest had waned. The finals were fun.

2012-2017 absolutely burnt me out. Last week I saw as just a loss, "win some lose some", but losses like last night...they bring back this weird sensation where I actually stop caring. I used to care so much after losses like this when we weren't even close to finals. But now that we're in the running, I am completely indifferent. 

I doubt many are like me but if you wanted to know how some of us felf after that match...well, it essentially ruined football for me. Last night I laughed more than anything and shook my head, whereas two years ago I'd have been throwing my cigarettes at the screen. After they kicked 4 goals from 4 inside 50s in the third, I put on Monsters Inc for a giggle and fell asleep before the final siren. 

My point is that losses like the Hawthorn game, and last night. After everything we've been through as a fanbase, for some of us it's actually made us realise how much of a waste of energy football is. To be honest it's been a wake up call for me. I hope some of you can end up like me tbh. Feeling indifferent and not caring so much makes the losses much easier to deal with.

[beelzebub 23,392]

15 minutes ago, Hell Bent said:

I'm surprised how calm I am after that result. The effort was there from 90% of the team for the whole match. We smashed them in the clearances, but we failed to score and capitalise, whilst they scored with ease. 

I realise we are underdone due to post season surgeries and the shorter preseason that is foreign to us but I'm not sure how much we can use that as an excuse. Clarrie had arguably the most debilitating of surgeries and he was back to his best last night,  Viney too was looking more like what we expect of him. 

It's clearly the game plan that is the issue here. At one stage we had 32 inside 50s without a goal,  while they had 4 goals from 4 entries. 

Has any team in the history of the game had 25 more inside 50s and lost by 80 points? 

Game plan needs a royal commission this week.

 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

I'll weigh in with some things that baffle me.

ANB had 8 possessions at 44% efficiency last night. Came out of the draft as an inside mid who was known for throwing it on the boot. Tom Sparrow is an inside mid whose weakness is his ball use and is playing his second game. 

Both of those guys were our half-forwards.

Compare to Geelong's half-forwards. Miers, Rohan and Dalhaus. Dynamic and skillful players who are true forwards.

That's one example of where Goodwin is failing.

 

Backline -

Why would he bring Steven May in to play a Jake Lever role?  He is a one-on-one specialist and should have been on Hawkins from start to finish.

How many times do Melbourne defenders fly for the same spoil? At one time, I saw four in the air with some leaving their opponents on the ground to pick-up loose ball. How long are we going to continue leaking such easy goals? Why do they all try to be superman and then look at each other in such a confused way when the ball bobbles only to result in a goal?

Goodwin needs to change our defensive system, that is one thing I'm sure of. This rotating on players, guarding of space carp is becoming ridiculous. We continue to leak goals and cannot seem to stop runs of goals. We're far too aggressive as a backline.

 

Mids - 

We've drafted for contested players. Naturally, they gravitate to the contest and this is a massive issue for when we try and win the ball but don't. It means all of our mids are in the same small area and oppo teams will just hand-ball out of traffic to a man in space.

We see ball, get ball and bang ball forward without a care. This system will not always work and is not always necessary when there's space and time to look to where the best option is.

I am so so sick of seeing players kick as quickly as possible forward without a care. 

There must be a change to this. West Coast and now the first two rounds. Signs are not good.

[drysdale demon 4,837]

Lots of sooking going on. I have faith that the footy department will turn it around. There were bound to be ups and  downs this year for a variety of reasons.

[beelzebub 23,392]

@praha

You're not alone

[Lucifers Hero 40,623]

Sure we had numerous i50 and lost by 13 goals but that isn't the major worry for me. 

What is most frightening is we had 100 tackles but lost by 13 goals.  Let that sink in...

Its not often a team has 100 tackles and loses, let alone be thrashed.  Especially when you also easily win the hitouts, clearances and be not far behind on contested possessions.   

Those things are the very essence of 'our brand'.  What is frightening is that we executed 'our brand' very well and we won on nearly every one of its criteria yet we lose by 13 goals.  If 'our brand', the 'Melbourne Way' is failing that badly, i just don't know where we go.  Its hard to see how 100 tackles can be improved upon. 

After last year's Hawthorn game PJ said the players trashed our brand.  Last night they didn't; they executed it quite well.  It wasn't lack of effort, nor 'drinking bathwater'.  Something deeper and much more insidious is at play.

It must be really demoralising for the players to know they did pretty much what the coaches ask of them re 'our brand' and have that result.  The coaches have some serious thinking to do.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[Dr. Gonzo 24,461]

9 hours ago, Deesprate said:

Totally agree it not just Goodwin. There is something inherently rotten about this club. The only time we have improved is when Roos and Jackson were imposed on the club by the AFL. Now they are gone we are slipping back to where we normally habituate the sewer. There are reason why there are successful clubs this club just doesn’t cut it and I am sorry to say never will.

Maybe because the supporters throw in the towel at the first sign of difficulty?

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

18 minutes ago, Smokey said:

We won inside 50s and clearances. That is an improvement. 

Strongly disagree.

That's what our winning formula is based on. Repeat entries and beating teams in the contest. A "forward-half" game.

We lost the game by 80 points but won clearances and inside 50's convincingly.

Please tell me how that is not a massive fail and break-down of individual play along the way?

We are not learning a game-plan anymore mate. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by stevethemanjordan

[Skuit 10,031]

Who wants to short-sell their guaranteed Grand Final ticket now? I'll take it for the right offer. 

I hope no-one is getting sucked in by this 0-2 statistical BS. What are the odds of making finals if we win the next three games, and sit at 3-2? Or even just the next one, for 1-2?

Fugazi.

[pitmaster 3,589]

7 hours ago, P-man said:

if we’re being honest, Petracca’s stagnation is going to hurt going forward. Individual brilliance matters. Forget about taking a game by the scruff of the neck. He barely looks capable of taking a game by the hand and asking it out for a coffee.

Looks like he's been having cake with that coffee.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,461]

8 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

When does the season proper start? 

In about 50 weeks.

[beelzebub 23,392]

11 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I'll weigh in with some things that baffle me.

ANB had 8 possessions at 44% efficiency last night. Came out of the draft as an inside mid who was known for throwing it on the boot. Tom Sparrow is an inside mid whose weakness is his ball use and is playing his second game. 

Both of those guys were our half-forwards.

Compare to Geelong's half-forwards. Miers, Rohan and Dalhaus. Dynamic and skillful players who are true forwards.

That's one example of where Goodwin is failing.

 

Backline -

Why would he bring Steven May in to play a Jake Lever role?  He is a one-on-one specialist and should have been on Hawkins from start to finish.

How many times do Melbourne defenders fly for the same spoil? At one time, I saw four in the air with some leaving their opponents on the ground to pick-up loose ball. How long are we going to continue leaking such easy goals? Why do they all try to be superman and then look at each other in such a confused way when the ball bobbles only to result in a goal?

Goodwin needs to change our defensive system, that is one thing I'm sure of. This rotating on players, guarding of space carp is becoming ridiculous. We continue to leak goals and cannot seem to stop runs of goals. We're far too aggressive as a backline.

 

Mids - 

We've drafted for contested players. Naturally, they gravitate to the contest and this is a massive issue for when we try and win the ball but don't. It means all of our mids are in the same small area and oppo teams will just hand-ball out of traffic to a man in space.

We see ball, get ball and bang ball forward without a care. This system will not always work and is not always necessary when there's space and time to look to where the best option is.

I am so so sick of seeing players kick as quickly as possible forward without a care. 

There must be a change to this. West Coast and now the first two rounds. Signs are not good.

This

 

[Sir Why You Little 37,383]

5 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Strongly disagree.

That's what our winning formula is based on. Repeat entries and beating teams in the contest. A "forward-half" game.

We lost the game by 80 points but won clearances and inside 50's convincingly.

Please tell me how that is not a massive fail and break-down of individual play along the way?

We are not learning a game-plan anymore mate. 

It’s all above the shoulders now

the trust has been obliterated by Meth Coke in the PF last year

Until we address this psychologically....

[buck_nekkid 6,090]

Did you notice that in the Goody presser the tooth rotting drink was rotated so that ‘Gary Ablett’ was visible, in front of Goody, the whole time?  I wonder if that was accidental, or some Cats supporting Nuffie setting up the room??

Otherwise, Goody sounded measured, and is talking the long game.  Lets see what he can deliver.  I think we lost it at selection.  We are not balanced, and have almost zero zip where we need it.  Too many out of form, and rushing (which flows on into making everyone else rush).  If we bomb it versus the bombers, they can get us.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,461]

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

I wonder how many of you had the same reactions after the Hawks beat us by a similar margin in Round 4 last year?

Just go back through the "Is Goodwin The Right Guy" thread started after that game to find out

[frankie_d 1,471]

11 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Sure we had numerous i50 and lost by 13 goals but that isn't the major worry for me. 

What is most frightening is we had 100 tackles but lost by 13 goals.  Let that sink in...

Its not often a team has 100 tackles and loses, let alone be thrashed.  Especially when you also easily win the hitouts, clearances and be not far behind on contested possessions.   

Those things are the very essence of 'our brand'.  What is frightening is that we executed our 'our brand' very well and we won on nearly every one of its criteria yet we lose by 13 goals.  If 'our brand', the 'Melbourne Way' is failing that badly, i just don't know where we go.  Its hard to see how 100 tackles can be improved upon. 

After last year's Hawthorn game PJ said they players trashed our brand.  Last night they didn't; they executed it quite well.  It wasn't lack of effort, nor 'drinking bathwater'.  Something deeper and much more insidious is at play.

It must be really demoralising for the players to know they did pretty much what the coaches ask of them re 'our brand' and have that result.  The coaches have some serious thinking to do.

Best question asked on here for a long time. We played our brand, and got thrashed. What now, Simon?

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Back to 'all in' crash and compete, then no one to run it out

C Oliver = freak

Good to see the 'real' skipper back to his angry best

Btw, selectors, it was [censored] raining!!

[beelzebub 23,392]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

In about 50 weeks.

Not sure if just joking...

It's actually the only thing that holds any interest for me currently.

Am sure many will deride but this season is 5 mins to midnight .. ALREADY.

Maybe it IS about 2020 ... 2019..meh

[Dr. Gonzo 24,461]

16 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Sure we had numerous i50 and lost by 13 goals but that isn't the major worry for me. 

What is most frightening is we had 100 tackles but lost by 13 goals.  Let that sink in...

Its not often a team has 100 tackles and loses, let alone be thrashed.  Especially when you also easily win the hitouts, clearances and be not far behind on contested possessions.   

Those things are the very essence of 'our brand'.  What is frightening is that we executed our 'our brand' very well and we won on nearly every one of its criteria yet we lose by 13 goals.  If 'our brand', the 'Melbourne Way' is failing that badly, i just don't know where we go.  Its hard to see how 100 tackles can be improved upon. 

After last year's Hawthorn game PJ said they players trashed our brand.  Last night they didn't; they executed it quite well.  It wasn't lack of effort, nor 'drinking bathwater'.  Something deeper and much more insidious is at play.

It must be really demoralising for the players to know they did pretty much what the coaches ask of them re 'our brand' and have that result.  The coaches have some serious thinking to do.

Similar to a few games last year, it tells me we're not that far away. We executed the fundamentals well but just didn't have the touch or polish to finish it off on the scoreboard. Our small/mid forwards are a problem, fix that and the tide will turn very shortly.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Whats got me worried most is some of the coaching.

- Defence: we're kicking it back in short around 40-50m. We should be going long and wide to force the boundry and put some distance to the goal (at least 2 possessions). The rules have litterally just been changed to make this easier. Salem kicking out in the 4th was a good example. Kicked it short and straight to Dangerfield on the 50m arc. Danger could have kicked it himself but centered to Menagola 40m out and goal. Geelong and Collingwood go long and wide. Seems to work for them. If we're worried about the contest and height, play Preuss.

- Midfield: got to stop the long bomb forward. At least send it high so we can make it a contest and bring it to ground. Brayshaw was a good example in the 4th. We got the best tap from Gawn, Brayshaw cleared it to the centre square with no pressure (good use of new 6v6v6 rule) but goes deep and long straight to two Geelong defenders. There was a lead if he lowered his eyes or could have gotten a forward to make a contest if it sent it high to the middle.

- Forward: servicing is a big issue, but there is no intensity or pressure. At least make it difficult to get it out. The current strategy of bombing it in and hoping we will get a goal isnt working. 25 more inside 50s but lose by 80 points is damming. It did feel like we were missing a player or two everytime it went forward, so focus on pressure and presenting. Anyone know where there are stats on forward tackles? Would ne interesting to compare ours against Geelongs.

 

Long story short; we've been found out.

[Jaded No More 68,976]

I find it extra alarming that despite having a good outing from some of our best mids, and having 19747 more inside 50s that we got demolished by 80 points. 

Where is the 81 point improvement going to come from? 

We’ve been worked out and it’s round 2. Ring the alarm. 

[beelzebub 23,392]

1 minute ago, Jaded said:

I find it extra alarming that despite having a good outing from some of our best mids, and having 19747 more inside 50s that we got demolished by 80 points. 

Where is the 81 point improvement going to come from? 

We’ve been worked out and it’s round 2. Ring the alarm. 

"We've been worked out"

Sums it up beautifully

If we keep trying the same stuff....I fear we'll just get similar results.  Just varying amounts.