POSTGAME: Rd 1 vs Port Adelaide

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

Just re-read my statement on Watts in his post game on-field interview, and feel I need to expand on my views. Of course he is likable, I didn't mean to imply he only appears to be. He also appears to be easy going, and nothing bothers him, but hearing his confession that on some days he didn't want to get out of bed, was enlightening. This is what convinced me he must also possess a remarkable mental toughness. He owns up to his mistakes and doesn't blame others.

He also alluded to the stark difference between his debut game and that of his Port team mates debut game. Wounds may heal but scars remain. As I said, I wish him the best.

[FireInTheBennelly 4,072]

How many of us were dirty after the first 10-15 minutes?

Plenty of reasons why things turned around and we didn't react. We're still a young side, and still learning, but I expected better.

So many players slipping over when we were all out attack in q1 = heads drop. Port coaches exploited that by thumping Gawn. Midfield group either respond or go into shell. Shell. Nobody stuck up for Gawn. They could've belted anyone they wanted and got away with it.

A question. Would any team get away with dropping Grundy off the ball, twice??? Demons, you are now the hunted, you need to harden the [censored] up!

[spirit of norm smith 16,476]

Goodwin is joking surely.  “We wished we would’ve have more time to prepare”. That means missing September.  

Good teams back up. They “Are” ready to play. 5 months of preseason.  Suspension and injuries (aside from Viney) were in preparation. No excuses. 

We lost the contested footy and couldn’t handle it.  And they missed Wines. 

Simply we expected to just turn up. Where was the support for Gawn. We need Preuss May VBerg in to match the physical teams. 

Port were worthy winners. They should have won by 40+.

[Guest]

I think 'that was as bad as Neeld' is the Demonland equivalent of referencing 'SJWs/fascists/communists/insert your snarl word of choice here' during political debates. It just goes to show you either have a very short memory or are unwilling to do any actual analysis of the game.

That said, we do have a lot of work to do.

A lot of the reasons we lost have been covered but I think that our lack of crumbing forwards is worrying. Spargo is a good trier but I like his ability to hit the right option going into attack much more than his ability to take advantage of half chances. We need the latter more than the former from our small forwards in my eyes.

Also the most obvious selection needs to be made: Braydon Preuss. Maxy is more a Simon Madden style ruckman than a John Nicholls one. I say that in the sense that he is a footballer and not an enforcer. He is a competitor no doubt but he isn't one to hand out backhanders or iron blokes out. He needs protection (Jack Viney should have put his hand up here and May would have helped ) and a break every now and then. 

[Dr.D 1,771]

7 hours ago, FireInTheBelly said:

How many of us were dirty after the first 10-15 minutes?

Plenty of reasons why things turned around and we didn't react. We're still a young side, and still learning, but I expected better.

So many players slipping over when we were all out attack in q1 = heads drop. Port coaches exploited that by thumping Gawn. Midfield group either respond or go into shell. Shell. Nobody stuck up for Gawn. They could've belted anyone they wanted and got away with it.

A question. Would any team get away with dropping Grundy off the ball, twice??? Demons, you are now the hunted, you need to harden the [censored] up!

agreed. but gawn needs to lift also. he was an absolute disgrace on the weekend. he was slow, he couldn't jump, he was in the wrong spots, he squibbed some contests and was nowhere to be seen most of the game. It simply wasnt good enough 

[Lucifers Hero 39,963]

At the ground I noticed our wingmen often played off their opponents and stayed toward an outside corner of the square leaving opp wingmen alone on the outside around the middle.  This positioning only made sense if we got the clearance.  But not a good position to defend from.

When they won the clearance they would handball to their (unattended) wingman and in the meantime a defender ran onto the wing took a pass and put it straight into their forward line.  These were set plays by Port and worked nearly every time. We were forever several metres behind their players so they had 2/3 uncontested possessions from centre bounce to their forwards.  This made them look more fleet-of-foot than they were.   Port will win a few games this way before someone works them out.

Not sure if our problem was poor structure/positioning or players not playing to rules.  But to me it didn't make sense to leave wingmen unattended - I had recurring visions of the game vs Hawth last year when we played without wingmen.   Unattended wingmen is a high risk play and especially high risk when a number of our mid-fielders/wingmen were on limited game time or underdone.  I hope we ditch the 'stand-off' the wingmen tactic asap.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[poita 3,902]

My thoughts, two days on: We weren't prepared for this game physically or mentally. We showed Port no respect and assumed that things would just happen for us. Many of our players are underdone, others are just plan unfit or lazy. A 26 point margin flattered us as we could have lost by ten goals.

Our coach had a shocker, both at selection and on game day. Why did he get an extension before the season had started? He needs to sort out the forward line structure in a hurry and find some decent support for Gawn. Hopefully he get over his stubbornness and fixes the game plan before it is too late.

• Jones - I'm his biggest fan, but he was dreadful. Forget the skill errors, his major issue was wandering down the Southern wing by himself all afternoon whilst his opponent ran unattended where the football was.
• Salem - clearly our best on the day, and should be spending more time in the midfield this season.
• Harmes - had a crack and not our worst.
• Petracca - he may not be fat, but he is clearly carrying too much weight as he can barely move. More concerning is the battle that is raging in his head. He gets down on himself too easily and is second guessing everything he does. Needs to be allowed to play with the freedom that he displayed in his first season.
• Viney - diabolical decision to play by both coach and player. Clearly struggling with his foot and a complete passenger. If he needs two months off to get right, just do it.
• Spargo - slow, small and spectacularly good at being where the ball isn't. Not AFL standard.
• Brayshaw - not his best game. Needs to focus on doing the basics well, rather than trying for the spectacular.
• Gawn - the template to beat Max is now well established. Can player and coach respond? The big concern is how quickly he drops his head when he cops some physical punishment.
• Oliver - probably his worst game for the club. I'm hoping it was the effect of some big hits early in the game that caused him grief.
• Hibberd - the faintest shadow of his 2017 self. Some of his defensive work was appalling for an experienced player and his disposal has fallen right away.
• Frost - a great athlete but the dumbest footballer around. Ideally would never be in the same defence as McDonald. Needs the game made as simple as possible, so I would have had him chained to Westhoff for the entire game and told him not to worry about anything else.
• Melksham - clearly our best forward, but would benefit from keeping things simple.
• T.McDonald - a horrible game. Clearly suffering from appalling forward structure and delivery, but something doesn't seem right.
• Weideman - his best is potentially elite, but he goes missing far too often. Would benefit from focusing on repeat leading and providing physical pressure rather than trying to take big pack marks.
• O.McDonald - I'm a fan but he makes the same mistakes too often. Will benefit from May taking the number 1 forward each week.
• Hunt - a shadow of his 2017 self. I'm not sure he has the football brain to work through his issues.
• Neal-Bullen - the biggest front runner in the game. Will kick three goals running ahead of the football in a flogging of Gold Coast, but never contributes when the going is tough.
• Fritsch - doesn't find the football playing through the midfield and his defensive work is poor. His only role is to be leading at the ball carrier from inside forward 50.
• Sparrow - showed enough in the second half to persist with, but is another tortoise.
• Hore - clearly displayed why he has been stuck in the VFL. Miles away from AFL standard and looked all at sea defensively.
• Jetta - doesn't look fit and has no confidence in his kicking. 
• Wagner - had a crack and was better value than Spargo, Neal-Bullen or Petracca. Acceptable as the 22nd player on the team sheet, but little more.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

22 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

How does that compare to other clubs?

Don't know for sure, but found this for Port.

Looks like Port had Rockliff, Watts, Robbie Gray, Bonner and Amon.

The article suggests that only Rockliff was going to miss any pre-season training, though.

I'm not sure which of our players who had operations missed pre-season training, so it's hard to compare. But on raw numbers it's something like 10 MFC players vs 5 PAFC players.

21 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The rule change which was most difficult to train for is not having Runners during play.  In the first 3 quarters there were large gaps between goals which limited Goodwin's opportunity to impact the play.  And in the last qtr there were only 3 goals which again limited the coaches ability to make positional changes, get messages out etc.

With Lewis out, Viney on for only 2 1/2 quarters, Max focused on staying on his feet and Jones with his perpetually limited on - field nouse, we had no-one looking at the 'big picture'; marshaling the troops to support each other etc.  The result was 22 players playing largely as individuals; the antithesis of teamwork and the 'esprit de corps' we pride ourselves on.

We can change team selections but I don't know where our on field leadership is going to come from.

The no runner rule may be the one that hurts us the most and probably the hardest to counteract.

This is not a bad thought, actually.

Our on-field leadership has always struggled and without Lewis would have been even worse.

I'd be confident we were using Cross heavily last year to fix things up.

16 hours ago, jnrmac said:

I agree with you that it is different but we were way off in skills, desire and execution. The uncontested stats tell a big story as do the contested stats that we lost only twice I think last year.

The uncontested possessions tell the fitness story. 

It's the contested possessions that tell a more worrying story and go beyond the fitness issues, I think.

16 hours ago, Skuit said:

You can throw in Brayshaw for consecutive 'mystery injury of the week' leading up to and around Christmas from memory.

That makes:

Clayton Oliver (double shoulder surgery)
Brayshaw (back? - interrupted pre-season)
James Harmes (shoulder surgery - plus finger)
Jack Viney (ankle surgery - no match fitness)
Nathan Jones (hamstring - no match fitness)

And it showed. As it does in the stats - which are probably the worst ever recorded by any four of this group combined. 

Any coincidence that Salem was our stand-out yesterday?

I'd either missed or fogotten about Brayshaw.

I don't know whether the bigger impacts come from surgeries in October/November which delay the start of the player's pre-season, or lack of match fitness which prevents full training in Jan/Feb.

There's also the inability to get the entire side out on the park at any given time which hurts, too.

[Thehardtackler 785]

I thought my 8 year old son summed up the game best. He said to me, "Daddy, what is so bad about losing the game is that we have to listen to that awful song again. It is just the worst!"

Edited March 25, 2019 by Thehardtackler

[bing181 9,246]

22 hours ago, Dame Gaga said:

"mental health issues".

No need for the quotes - and this is one of the reasons people suffer in silence, often until it's too late.

Disgusting.

[What 18,810]

Can not believe how many people are writing off Spargo after 1 game.

Get  a grip!

[Skuit 10,031]

Just now, Petraccattack said:

Can not believe how many people are writing off Spargo after 1 game.

Get  a grip!

That was his 19th game. And he failed to put on any height in the off-season.

[What 18,810]

Just now, Skuit said:

That was his 19th game. And he failed to put on any height in the off-season.

Yes his 19th game, the first of a new season when the whole team was garbage.

He is barely 19 years old and had a fantastic debut season.

[bing181 9,246]

8 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Good teams back up. They “Are” ready to play. 5 months of preseason.  

You're confusing preseason with off-season.

Full team didn't start training till Dec 3, but then 3 weeks later were off for a mandatory 3 week Xmas break. They then had around 6 weeks from mid January till the first of two JLT matches.

No surprise to see most of the 2018 finalists underdone - and losing as a consequence.

[Gator 17,383]

20 hours ago, A F said:

Wondering what your thoughts were @ProDee?

Roughly our best 10-11 players are Gawn, Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, May, Lever, Tom McDonald, Jetta, Salem, Harmes, and Melksham.  Hibberd's fallen away a bit.

A couple didn't play and of the rest only Salem and to and Melksham could hold their head high.  It's hard to win games of footy when your best players don't show up.

They matched us in the contest and were far better on the outside.  In fact, they often outnumbered us around the contest, which is usually our one wood.

Obviously, a lot of players are underdone.

It's not cut your wrist time, but there looks like there might be some challenges early on.

[doug williams 49]

We did look slow, I must say and as for slow individuals : Petracca and Jonesy are 2.

Jones fails to hit the scoreboard at crucial times even when he is in the clear or on a set shot.

He needs a rest and so does Vines, so Sizzle can be the captain for a bit. Naturally he will need to play better than he did Saturday!

Stop picking on Spargo, I thought he wasn't too bad - Keilty can come in for Frost, May for Oscar - and WHAT DOES MELKSHAM HAVE TO DO TO EARN A FREE KICK????? Come on umpire!

[doug williams 49]

And don't forget : other favoured teams got beaten  at the weekend. Weagles for example.

[rjay 24,955]

2 minutes ago, doug williams said:

And don't forget : other favoured teams got beaten  at the weekend. Weagles for example.

They've got an excuse...a premiership hangover.

We've got redemption, what happened?

[Skuit 10,031]

41 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

He is barely 19 years old and had a fantastic debut season.

Are you suggesting there's still an outside chance of puberty to come?

[beelzebub 23,380]

47 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

Yes his 19th game, the first of a new season when the whole team was garbage.

He is barely 19 years old and had a fantastic debut season.

19

You mean he might still grow ???

[old dee 23,799]

45 minutes ago, doug williams said:

We did look slow, I must say and as for slow individuals : Petracca and Jonesy are 2.

Jones fails to hit the scoreboard at crucial times even when he is in the clear or on a set shot.

He needs a rest and so does Vines, so Sizzle can be the captain for a bit. Naturally he will need to play better than he did Saturday!

Stop picking on Spargo, I thought he wasn't too bad - Keilty can come in for Frost, May for Oscar - and WHAT DOES MELKSHAM HAVE TO DO TO EARN A FREE KICK????? Come on umpire!

Petracca is so slow I reckon big Max could run away from him.

I watched him a lot at Full forward when he went there and whenever the Port backs got the ball they knew they could run off him. Even when chasing the ball the port players were running past him. he is IMO a classic great junior player because he was an early developer now as a senior player everyone is faster than him. He has one speed slow. He looks like he should be in body building contest, over weight and muscle bound.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

Tom Browne on Talking Footy reported earlier that Gawn was in hospital last week for a day procedure under general anaesthetic.

Not sure if ti's true, and if it is not sure if that impacted upon his preparation or his fitness.

Has anyone else heard anything about that?

Edit: given there's an entire thread on it, I suppose so. My bad.

Edited March 25, 2019 by titan_uranus

[Spud 288]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

Roughly our best 10-11 players are Gawn, Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, May, Lever, Tom McDonald, Jetta, Salem, Harmes, and Melksham.  Hibberd's fallen away a bit.

A couple didn't play and of the rest only Salem and to and Melksham could hold their head high.  It's hard to win games of footy when your best players don't show up.

They matched us in the contest and were far better on the outside.  In fact, they often outnumbered us around the contest, which is usually our one wood.

Obviously, a lot of players are underdone.

It's not cut your wrist time, but there looks like there might be some challenges early on.

Pretty much agree with everything there. I'd give Hibberd a little leeway as there were quite a few times he busted his backside to run to space or follow up when no one else was working. I think the fact he'd run so hard to create an option, meant he was spent by the time he received it and consequently butchered it.  I think he'll come good this year with a bit more match fitness. He played injured most of last year I think some have forgotten.

[waynewussell 5,768]

I'm two minutes from 3Qtr time in the replay. Petracca just missed a snap for goal to put us ahead... I turned it off at that point because I know what happened next, but we were still in a winning position very late into the third. The point is that our efforts in the final Qtr are what really stood between a win and a loss. That is where our focus needs to be in fixing things... yes, I know we were shown up by not bringing more physicality to the game from the outset... and we didn't adjust to the PA team tactics against Max, however, this is fixable!

[waynewussell 5,768]

... further analysis after watching first 3 Qtrs of replay

• Jones was a reasonable contributor before his horror run
• Spargo got to several contests... yes, he lacked touch and wasn't able to capitalize on his involvements... but he did have involvements, something that Garlett doesn't have when he is having a shocker