Farewell Jesse Hogan

[old55 23,546]

42 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Yep.

My take is that the club was happy to keep Hogan long-term, but not disappointed when he said he had a preference to return to Perth and specifically to go to the Fremantle Football Club.  As you know, the club is bullish about Weideman and Tom has become a revelation as a key forward.  Structurally, we're better with May in the 22 than with Hogan.  And yes, Hogan could become a quality key back, but I doubt he wants to move to defence.  Certainly not long-term.

More specifically, I cannot fathom why he'd go to a bottom 4-6 basket-case club, when we're on the precipice of a successful era.  It makes me question lots of things about him, including his drive and competitiveness.

“I asked him if he wanted to have a chat to Peter Bell and he said, ‘I don’t want to do it’.

“He said, ‘I will stay at Geelong or go to West Coast’. But I don’t want to go to a club down the bottom of the ladder because Geelong is a good club.

Tim Kelly gets it, as you can see by the quotes above.

If Hogan said his preference was to go to Freo, and I don't doubt it to be the case, then my whole view of him has changed.

Clearly, he's gone to the Jack Watts school of dedication.  And just as clearly, a flag means little to him.

I hope he's traded before Wednesday's deadline.

That's a consistent line of reasoning across the years.  It's uncommon and there's a lot to be said for that.

My only observation it's not totally objective.  You understandably get very excited and salivate at outstanding KPF prospects and build a very high hope and expectation.  When that's not met the crash is hard.  The pendulum swings a long way the other direction.

I'm pretty sure you strongly value objectivity - you've got a bias here.

There wasn't much baby with the Watts bathwater, I think there still can be with Hogan. He could find his niche in the backline like Hurley has and dominate for years to come.  I'm still sufficiently excited by this prospect.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Fifty-5

[Redleg 40,895]

Get the feeling that the AFL might get involved with the amount of deals being stuck and players in limbo.

It is becoming a farce and a bad look for the AFL.

[special robert 438]

yep reckon freo will trade whitfield and suddenly give us 5 and this is not over.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Just now, special robert said:

yep reckon freo will trade whitfield and suddenly give us 5 and this is not over.

 

[special robert 438]

so it is over...like really.......perhaps freos exit is fake news

[DemonLad5 1,642]

10 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Get the feeling that the AFL might get involved with the amount of deals being stuck and players in limbo.

It is becoming a farce and a bad look for the AFL.

Agree with this 

[beelzebub 23,347]

9 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Get the feeling that the AFL might get involved with the amount of deals being stuck and players in limbo.

It is becoming a farce and a bad look for the AFL.

My gut, which often talks passing on snippets of intuition , suggests nothing of note will happen til Monday. If Freo return to the table they'll need a little time to pass and get the Neale trade done .

Who was is....never say never !

Can't hear the fat lady....just some twerp puffing his chest 

And....we wait.

Lovely sunny day here

[Ted Lasso 19,506]

I thought the statement freo made was pretty embarrassing, it felt a bit like throwing the toys out of the cott and giving Melbourne a clip on the way out. I suspect that’s why our offer was released to purple to just show what we were dealing with. 

Melbourne, the giants and Brisbane have all complained about the way freo are doing business this trade period. Freo could have had Lobb, hogan and pick 11 in the draft if they didn’t behave like this 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,819]

3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Freo do have a way of getting Hogan and importantly still save face:  trade Neale to Brisbane, then include pick 5 in a trade to us.  They can save face by saying 'we now have the picks to satisfy Melb in a trade'.

But can't see them being smart or humble enough to be that sensible!

 

I thought this was a no brainer option from the start.  Freo just acting like a bunch of self righteous [censored] thinking that they have the world's strongest hand and can dictate the terms to everyone else rather than swallowing some humble pie conceding that Neale is gone, but being greatfull for locking away one of the premium mature key forwards in the game, but that they will actually have to pay market price for him or maybe a bit over given that he would actually be breaking his contact to go to them.  With such a clear way forward, you'd think they'd be jumping over themselves to get this deal done, rather than [censored] EVERYONE in the AFL around - a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.

I'm also honestly not seeing why Freo think Neale is worth so much either.  My understanding is that he is a fair player and had a bit of a breakout year a season or so ago, but the way Freo are carrying on, it's like he is the equivalent of Dangerfield or Martin or Fife at their peak. Trelor was a significantly more established player for a number of years before he attracted the type of trade leverage for GWS that Freo are expecting.  Unless Neale is at that sort of level, then one first round pick and perhaps a later 2 Rd is about all they can expect.  I mean Neale played all 22 games and didn't even make the top 30 brownlow (AFL midfielders award) vote getters playing in a team of spuds when Fife was injured and wouldn't take votes off him for half the year.  At 25 yo, he's around his peak performance and ain't no Oliver or Brayshaw.

I know Freo also want Lobb, then to me there options are 1. concede that you can't always get all your whish list ticked off in one foul swoop, or 2. start trading some of their other players and or future draft picks.  But they just don't seem to get the concept that you need to give something to get something in return.

As a side note, you have got to wonder what Fife saw in Freo to keep him there?  To me, Freo hit the down hill slide when they uprooted Mark Harvey and replaced him with Ross Lyon.  Harvey had pulled them out of obscurity, developed and motivated them into a competitive team playing a good brand of footy.  Being the expert on coaching that I am, Ross Lyon does nothing for me.  He always seems to be highly rated, perhaps by association with some of his former teams and former senior coaching mentors, but look at his record - 3 loosing grand finals playing the most boring brand of football ever.  No wonder Neale wants to leave, he doesn't want to be bored to death.  After inheriting a good team, the subsequent decline and failed 'rebuild' at Freo under Lyon has been a disaster.

@binman, can you please read this and paraphrase it for @Tram 74, I think he can only read simple one line sentences.  Perhaps he should stick to Twitter, the social media platform for Twits.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

29 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

It would be interesting to know what the Freo fan forums are saying. Peter Bell sure has the little man syndrome- and this is coming from a little man.

The alpha dog is looking more like an omega.

They're fairly chortling over their amazing negotiating coup at missing out on a guy they desperately need and who wanted to go there. Are convinced they must have dodged a bullet but don't know how or why. Are smugly content that we will have to field this hugely talented player in our team next season. And MFC are now embarking on a massive face saving PR mission.

 

They are like a kid who wanted a fancy bike for Christmas. But got nothing, not even the budget model their parents could actually afford. And are now running around crowing that actually, they wanted a lump of coal and poor old Santa screwed up big time.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,819]

25 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Get the feeling that the AFL might get involved with the amount of deals being stuck and players in limbo.

It is becoming a farce and a bad look for the AFL.

Yes, the AFL will support several players trying to break there contacts early and demand to be traded to clubs of their choice - I think not.

What is becoming a farce is the domino effect of deficient free agency rules causing players to demand trades before the end of their contract.  The free agency rules need to be ballanced by making the club receiving the free agent repay the compensation pick from their own draft picks.  Would still be a reasonable form of free agency,  because the departure club does not need to agree to the deal.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

9 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

 Freo just acting like a bunch of self righteous pricks thinking that they have the world's strongest hand and can dictate the terms to everyone else

Freo think this is a game of Diplomacy (the old board game) where you win by basically threatening and betraying the other players.

Maybe Bell has watched too many mafia movies where the tough guy says "my awffer is 10 tousand bucks. An tomorrow it's gonna be 9 tousand. An da day after, 8 tousand." Maybe he thinks that we'll capitulate and just hand over Hogan for nothing.

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,775]

49 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

I can give you a summary 

- vic bias media 

-hogan always injured 

- dees asking way too much for hogan 

- he’s a free agent next year 

lots of absolute dribble. 

Well they can be forgiven for the RFA assumption, anyone could make that mistake really...

[Melb-A-Toast 257]

I think that trade negotiations is about playing the long game.

So if you negotiate really hard, or if you have a great coup, then you will have a reputation that will be harder to deal with in the future.

So, being seen to be fair and reasonable provides more opportunities to do more deals in the future.

If the List Management team is able to execute well, then the deal will look like a small loss at the first point, but a great success later down the track.

Think Watts at 31.

[dl4e 5,851]

I just don't understand this at all. 

Now that freo have publicly backed away from the deal we should no longer deal with them on this issue. It is dead and buried. To turn around and trade Hogan to them on wednesday  for say 5 and 23 would be a disgrace. That is my feeling anyway. Deal with it next year and be better prepared or maybe he changes his tune and stays.

[buck_nekkid 5,857]

1 minute ago, Melb-A-Toast said:

I think that trade negotiations is about playing the long game.

So if you negotiate really hard, or if you have a great coup, then you will have a reputation that will be harder to deal with in the future.

So, being seen to be fair and reasonable provides more opportunities to do more deals in the future.

If the List Management team is able to execute well, then the deal will look like a small loss at the first point, but a great success later down the track.

Think Watts at 31.

Watts at 31... where do I sign up?

With 20/20 hindsight, this deal (even paying 15% of his salary) was a big win.  Frittata is almost ‘Watts 2.0’ in that he adds class, capability and skill, but in the version of the 2017 demons, not the 2012 ones.

So you trade on what you know, and get what you can.  I think the Watts trade shows us that we are actually in good hands.  I think Freo may have damaged their relationship with Jesse with this stunt, which may be more telling than if The Dockers come crawling back to the table.  Jesse has not yet ‘asked for a trade’ - only exploring options.

As a PS, personally I hope Watts can find his feet and play well at Port, but so far all I have seen is a seagull that runs around the outside of packs looking to steal a chip.

[Wells 11 5,397]

12 minutes ago, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

Well they can be forgiven for the RFA assumption, anyone could make that mistake really...

lol... its a strange one isnt it. Every 5 pages or so the same comment would come up on this thread as well. its the lie that never dies! 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,819]

6 minutes ago, dl4e said:

I just don't understand this at all. 

Now that freo have publicly backed away from the deal we should no longer deal with them on this issue. It is dead and buried. To turn around and trade Hogan to them on wednesday  for say 5 and 23 would be a disgrace. That is my feeling anyway. Deal with it next year and be better prepared or maybe he changes his tune and stays.

My reading of the last line of Mahoney's statements on the MFC website article is that that's effectively the stance the club has taken, but I'm only reading between the lines and wouldn’t be full confident in that assumption until trade period actually closes.

On top of our previous trade history, for us to hold to that would send a pretty strong message to all clubs and players wanting to deal with us in the future.  i.e. we will deal in a fair and reasonable manner, but don't stuff us around and play stupid games or you can go get stuffed.

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,775]

Just now, Wells 11 said:

lol... its a strange one isnt it. Every 5 pages or so the same comment would come up on this thread as well. its the lie that never dies! 

What cracks me up is the evolution that has gone on with the responses... From debate to correction to fury to apathy to outright condescension

[Tough Kent 2,137]

Look at what Tony Sheahan just Tweeted:

New Deal Tabled; @melbournefc Jesse Hogan traded to the @GoldCoastSUNS in exchange for the Suns’ Steven May & Kade Kolodjashnij.

@freodockers cuteness towards this trade may cost them dearly!

Edited October 12, 2018 by Tough Kent

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,775]

1 minute ago, Tough Kent said:

Look at what Tony Sheahan just Tweeted:

New Deal Tabled; @melbournefc Jesse Hogan traded to the @GoldCoastSUNS in exchange for the Suns’ Steven May & Kade Kolodjashnij.

Wow!

[Dee tention 616]

Melbourne need too control the situation. Not Freo!

I wouldn’t accept Pick 5 & 23 as reported. Unless there is a player involved or Freos 2019 2nd round pick.

Bare minimum would be Pick 5 & 11.

We gave up two first rounders in the first place for him... 

 

[beelzebub 23,347]

2 minutes ago, Tough Kent said:

Look at what Tony Sheahan just Tweeted:

New Deal Tabled; @melbournefc Jesse Hogan traded to the @GoldCoastSUNS in exchange for the Suns’ Steven May & Kade Kolodjashnij.

 

[Melb-A-Toast 257]

5 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

Watts at 31... where do I sign up?

With 20/20 hindsight, this deal (even paying 15% of his salary) was a big win.  Frittata is almost ‘Watts 2.0’ in that he adds class, capability and skill, but in the version of the 2017 demons, not the 2012 ones.

So you trade on what you know, and get what you can.  I think the Watts trade shows us that we are actually in good hands.  I think Freo may have damaged their relationship with Jesse with this stunt, which may be more telling than if The Dockers come crawling back to the table.  Jesse has not yet ‘asked for a trade’ - only exploring options.

As a PS, personally I hope Watts can find his feet and play well at Port, but so far all I have seen is a seagull that runs around the outside of packs looking to steal a chip.

I agree!  At the time, I thought that Port played it really well, and I was expecting Watts to make us regret the move.  I also wish Watts more success for the rest of his career, though not when he plays against Melbourne.

Jesse has every reason to play a fantastic year at Melbourne, and then he can again consider his options as to whether he will return to Perth - hopefully with a medal or two.

[JTR 2,846]

1 hour ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

I can give you a summary 

- vic bias media 

-hogan always injured 

- dees asking way too much for hogan 

- he’s a free agent next year 

lots of absolute dribble. 

.... most common - "well done Belly, what a legend"

?