POSTMATCH DISCUSSION - Round 18

[Demons11 6,938]

9 hours ago, Jaded said:

Goodwin can go get [censored]. I’m sick of his stubborness. Put McDonald down back and we win. 

I am disgusted that we lost this game. Honestly I’m so tired of being disappointed with this club. 

If McDonald plays back then we lose.  He was the most dangerous forward.

 

[Dockett 32 1,239]

12 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

In the 2007 season, before their decade of dominance, the Hawks coughed up 4 games by 20 points or less, 2 of which were by 9 and 5 points. 

I'd agree that the Hawks side from 2008 to about 2016 would rarely have coughed up games like tonight, although I do recall Hawkins kicking a goal after the siren and Isaac Smith missing one that cost them a game as well. That's just off the top of my head

My point is that all teams do it at some stage, even the best teams. It's shattering for us, but not the end of the world... yet. 

My concern is that we have come out on the wrong side on all of our close ones. Not just on occasion and the pattern is disturbing. The players and coach can talk the talk but sooner or later you must walk the walk.

 

[Redleg 40,856]

Well we are probably the AFL premiers at one thing - snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. 

In each of of our close losses this season, 3 by a couple points and one by 10, we have seen similar things:

Poor disposal skill from several players.

Lack of pace in the side. 

Poor  kicking for goal. 

Wasted possession. 

Poor leadership at crucial times. 

Poor  coaching. 

Poor selection. 

Dumb or stupid decision making. 

Poor umpiring. 

We can probably change all of the above over time, with maybe the exception of umpiring.

Despite all of the above, we are now a far better team than the last few years and that is probably driving our hurt more, as we now expect to win, even at places like the cattery. TBH when I saw the team I thought at best it was a 5 goal loss at least. 

A few changes will help us enormously. Look at the last contest, Tuohy went up against Jetta with Spargo nearby. The next nearest was Salem. Not a big bloke in sight. Killing the clock just has to be learned. Our leaders need to lead out on the field or change them. Viney was a huge out as he would have buried the ball in our forward pocket in the last minute and probably game over. Frost to Hawkins early and one good contest and we win. Flood the backline in last minutes and we win.

So all is not doom and gloom if we  really learn and change not just talk about it. 

A couple of changes and we have a really good team that can match any other in the AFL.

But yes, now it really hurts to throw away winnable games.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Redleg

[Demons11 6,938]

I went up the Highway and I have to say I  am still gutted.  A very tough loss to take. 

Edited July 21, 2018 by Demons11

[beelzebub 23,313]

16 minutes ago, bobby1554 said:

Yep, sure is. He is living in the wrong state. Trade him back to WA where he wants to be and move on.

I'll agree with you.

We need to trade Hogan.

 I fancy he'll never be the player we all hope and need him to be ( consistently and most of any season ). Imho he'll wax and wane on form , effort and effect.

Atm he'll command a big return at market.

If our esteemed coach is hellbent on playing him through the middle he's wasted anyway.

We could probably get 1&1/2 decent miss for him.

I await the normal howling.

[Nasher 33,607]

9 hours ago, layzie said:

I am absolutely [censored] done with this. How much crueler does it have to get? How much lower to the pits of despair do we have to plunder? The best thing this club has taught me is to never be content with any lead. You lead my 23 points going into the last quarter? Doesn't matter, treat it like its level and try to kick the first goal, then try to kick the next goal, and the goal after that and the goal after that. That is the only way I know how to follow this football club. There is never any room for 'comfort'. You can't be 23 points up and be content when the opposition kicks a goal. No, there is never any God damn room for comfort with this club ever until the friggin full time siren goes and even then you have to hope some a'se wipe didn't take a mark. Seriously, how much more of this dog excrement bullcrap do we have to put up with? I was told repeatedly after Round 23 in 2017 that it would 'burn in the bellies' of these young men. Where the hell was that in the last minute? I don't want to hear any more stupid stories about no pain no gain and 'this is the loss they need to become better' seriously pull the other one. This football club has had enough of those losses and lessons to last a lifetime, it is time for some darn action. 

At half time in the game day thread I wrote that it had a feel about it similar to many of those games that we had the edge in and lost. The port game. I even referenced a game from [censored] 16 years ago where Farmer killed us on the siren at Subi. Seriously enough is enough. I and many others are completely at their wits end with this kind of thing happening over and over again. It's been 12 years and this Mt Everest of a task that teams seemingly make year after year of making the finals is getting beyond a joke.

Melbourne, you will always find the way won't you? You won't snatch it from St Kilda but you'll always find the way when it matters most. I haven't given up hope. Mate, when you're out of it for 12 years you'll take what chance you can get buf I can not back this team to deliver the goods when it counts.

I am sorry, I know a lot of you have other things in life aside from football like your families and partners. I'm in my early 30s, single and put a lot of my energy into this football club. It really damn hurts just that bit more when you feel you have little else. Criticise me if you want I don't give a toss right now.

I know others have responded already, but this post really hit me.

Mate trust me, even those of us with lives jam packed full of other stuff feel the sting. Being able to rationalise it away with “it’s just footy” comes later after things settle down, but the initial emotion still cuts deep.

For me, the blame phase isn’t part of the package when we lose. I don’t need to blame OMac for having a poor game, or JKH for missing an easy shot, or Goodwin for whatever, like so many do. That gives me zero therapeutic value - in fact it just makes me feel worse. That’s why I will often come across here frustrated when I post on here after losses. I just want an outlet to share my disappointment with other Melbourne supporters because I don’t really know many others, and all I seem to come across is misplaced rage and mindless criticism. People mistake my attitude for nonchalance or that I’m just happy with effort. That couldn’t be further from the truth.

Last night honestly felt up there with the most crushing feeling I’ve felt in my life. I turned the TV off immediately and just sat in the dark silence by myself for ages. I haven’t felt such a feeling of hopelessness for ages. The rational, intelligent man knows it’s stupid to react so strongly to football, but it still happens.

Anyway my point is, there are more people out there in your corner than you think.

[sisso 2,580]

It's bad, it's real bad, but it feels like we are close to being a good side for the first time in, well forever really.....now isn't the time to jump off.

Somehow we have to fix our defence though because when the floodgates open there doesn't seem to be any stopping it.

[Redleg 40,856]

5 minutes ago, Nasher said:

I know others have responded already, but this post really hit me.

Mate trust me, even those of us with lives jam packed full of other stuff feel the sting. Being able to rationalise it away with “it’s just footy” comes later after things settle down, but the initial emotion still cuts deep.

For me, the blame phase isn’t part of the package when we lose. I don’t need to blame OMac for having a poor game, or JKH for missing an easy shot, or Goodwin for whatever, like so many do. That gives me zero therapeutic value - in fact it just makes me feel worse. That’s why I will often come across here frustrated when I post on here after losses. I just want an outlet to share my disappointment with other Melbourne supporters because I don’t really know many others, and all I seem to come across is misplaced rage and mindless criticism. People mistake my attitude for nonchalance or that I’m just happy with effort. That couldn’t be further from the truth.

Last night honestly felt up there with the most crushing feeling I’ve felt in my life. I turned the TV off immediately and just sat in the dark silence by myself for ages. I haven’t felt such a feeling of hopelessness for ages. The rational, intelligent man knows it’s stupid to react so strongly to football, but it still happens.

Anyway my point is, there are more people out there in your corner than you think.

Agree. While it is not life or death it is full on passion. If it isn’t, it is just a distraction or light entertainment. Hurt comes from the passion. Joy/bliss does also. Every passionate demon will be hurting and will be gutted again. Hopefully success is coming soon for all of us with the passion for this club.  

[John Crow Batty 8,862]

This game was sooooo 1987 preliminary final. A nightmare revisited.

[Umpire Please 120]

6 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

Hogan needs to watch a review of Hawkins goals to learn how a good key forward needs to play. Hawkins got 5 of his goals after making fast leads and, as a result, marking the ball virtually uncontested.Hogan doesn’t lead. He prefers to stand still and try and mark within a pack, usually one handed. Tom Mac can mark in a pack - Hogan can’t. Hawkins got his other 2 goals from desperate ground play. Hogan is rarely desperate for the ball once it hits the ground. 

Hogan is a worry. 

Agree with you. You would think with a ex Geelong player and ex development coach in our box that by halfway through the 3rd they would be telling Hogan look at the way Hawkins is playing this ground and stay in the F$#king goalsquare! It drives me insane to see Spargo and Jeffy flying against their backs and resting rucks, but see that Hogan has clocked up heaps of kms run up and down the wing. Last week when he got his goals in the second half it’s because he was staying in the forward line and drawing the free. It’s either Hogan has the club over a barrel and demands to play his way when he won’t or the coaching team can not coach a player with so much potential and play him in his best position for the team.

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,222]

For the enjoyment of Demons' apologists. You know "the team tried", "we were the better team"  "you couldn't do better" etc

 

 

 

[—coach— 3,496]

13 minutes ago, Nasher said:

I know others have responded already, but this post really hit me.

Mate trust me, even those of us with lives jam packed full of other stuff feel the sting. Being able to rationalise it away with “it’s just footy” comes later after things settle down, but the initial emotion still cuts deep.

For me, the blame phase isn’t part of the package when we lose. I don’t need to blame OMac for having a poor game, or JKH for missing an easy shot, or Goodwin for whatever, like so many do. That gives me zero therapeutic value - in fact it just makes me feel worse. That’s why I will often come across here frustrated when I post on here after losses. I just want an outlet to share my disappointment with other Melbourne supporters because I don’t really know many others, and all I seem to come across is misplaced rage and mindless criticism. People mistake my attitude for nonchalance or that I’m just happy with effort. That couldn’t be further from the truth.

Last night honestly felt up there with the most crushing feeling I’ve felt in my life. I turned the TV off immediately and just sat in the dark silence by myself for ages. I haven’t felt such a feeling of hopelessness for ages. The rational, intelligent man knows it’s stupid to react so strongly to football, but it still happens.

Anyway my point is, there are more people out there in your corner than you think.

Wow your powers of zen are much greater than mine. Funnily enough as my name on here suggest, I’m a coach. After spending the whole week curbing my rage at just how dopy teenage and young adults can be, watching grown men make the same type of mistakes a 16yo would make, has me exploding with rage. I broke a chair last night after that final mark and goal then stormed out to my car and drove around the block a few times so as to not wake the little ones.

On Monday I will return to work and again be cool calm and collected whilst I go over the fundamentals yet again of something seemingly so simple!

[jumbo returns 6,740]

1 minute ago, Umpire Please said:

Agree with you. You would think with a ex Geelong player and ex development coach in our box that by halfway through the 3rd they would be telling Hogan look at the way Hawkins is playing this ground and stay in the F$#king goalsquare! It drives me insane to see Spargo and Jeffy flying against their backs and resting rucks, but see that Hogan has clocked up heaps of kms run up and down the wing. Last week when he got his goals in the second half it’s because he was staying in the forward line and drawing the free. It’s either Hogan has the club over a barrel and demands to play his way when he won’t or the coaching team can not coach a player with so much potential and play him in his best position for the team.

Hawkins is 30 (as we were told 4 million times last night) and has copped his fair share of criticism over his career - he had a night out, which happens occasionally

Dont you think that Hogan is still plying his craft?

[—coach— 3,496]

1 minute ago, jumbo returns said:

Hawkins is 30 (as we were told 4 million times last night) and has copped his fair share of criticism over his career - he had a night out, which happens occasionally

Dont you think that Hogan is still plying his craft?

I think Hogan is a [censored] slow learner 

[DemonOX 8,791]

One of the positives was how Harmes has become a very good tagger. 

He has found his niche in the team. 

[DemonOX 8,791]

If I could give the coaches a bit of advice it would be too put frost on walker next week and NOT Omac. 

[jumbo returns 6,740]

5 minutes ago, —coach— said:

I think Hogan is a [censored] slow learner 

That happens

But the trade talk that is unfolding? Sad, really....

[Umpire Please 120]

3 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Hawkins is 30 (as we were told 4 million times last night) and has copped his fair share of criticism over his career - he had a night out, which happens occasionally

Dont you think that Hogan is still plying his craft?

Yes he is and that is why we would like to see him ply his craft as a Key forward that leads and strikes fear into the opposition backs. Running up the wing and being in the centre is not going to help him as a forward. He needs to learn to mesh with the other forwards, understand the running pattern so he can lead and hit the scoreboard. Hogan would be one of our worst skilled  players below the knees. 

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

16 minutes ago, america de cali said:

This game was sooooo 1987 preliminary final. A nightmare revisited.

.....an Irish player kicking the winning goal after the siren last night. 

[Nasher 33,607]

6 minutes ago, —coach— said:

Wow your powers of zen are much greater than mine. Funnily enough as my name on here suggest, I’m a coach. After spending the whole week curbing my rage at just how dopy teenage and young adults can be, watching grown men make the same type of mistakes a 16yo would make, has me exploding with rage. I broke a chair last night after that final mark and goal then stormed out to my car and drove around the block a few times so as to not wake the little ones.

On Monday I will return to work and again be cool calm and collected whilst I go over the fundamentals yet again of something seemingly so simple!

Definitely didn’t feel zen coach, just didn’t know what else to do. Like you, I had little ones who I wished to remain asleep. 

Have fun at work. Swimming is my daughter’s sport of choice. Since watching her train (a lot), I’ve noticed one of the skills required for a coach is the ability to repeat yourself ad nauseam. It amazes me how long it takes for the message to get through sometimes!

[Deemania since 56 6,609]

2 hours ago, GCDee said:

Goodwin needs to learn from this.

Just another example of his limited thought, once again, each week. Get Roos back, or Lewis as senior coach. Dump Goodwin who has destroyed effective Defence, interrupted one of the most attacking forward lines in the League with 'midfield madness' and left the crumbs to be picked up by Gawn, Clarrie and now Gus. The arsenal still exists in experienced and talented footballers around the Club and who cares if an individual continuously states that these players are not KP whatevers? They have a go and put in for a win. Team selections are the next issue on the agenda ... keep Goodwin out of the process. Almost across the board, our players require a revision of coaching methods and strategies - almost needing individual guidance for what to do on the field - exceptions are terrific but there are only a handful who meet what can be regarded as a normal benchmark of performance and execution. 

[—coach— 3,496]

1 minute ago, jumbo returns said:

That happens

But the trade talk that is unfolding? Sad, really....

Not sure it is really. If a player has trade power and is finding it difficult to learn the basic skill of leading hard towards the bloke with the ball, then people have every right to ask the question. People argued trading Watts for pick 31 was a mistake, which clearly it wasn’t as we have a player who is miles better than Watts could ever dream of being. Could  not the same be true in this instance? If we got a first and second round pick for him or 2 firsts then perhaps we end up with two better players?

[Umpire Please 120]

Does anyone else think that Hawkins should be looked at for the whack in the face that he gave Fritsch when he was laying on the ground?

[bringbackthebiff 654]

My main concern is that we keep losing matches at the business end of the season. In isolation the result seems ok, however it is a big concern when you view it in total: end of 2016, end of 2017, dropped the saints game and realistically the cats are a shadow of the previous dominating best. It’s a mental thing. However it’s not uncommon for good teams to experience these extreme lows and it sets the foundation for future success - just hope that applies to us

[—coach— 3,496]

7 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Definitely didn’t feel zen coach, just didn’t know what else to do. Like you, I had little ones who I wished to remain asleep. 

Have fun at work. Swimming is my daughter’s sport of choice. Since watching her train (a lot), I’ve noticed one of the skills required for a coach is the ability to repeat yourself ad nauseam. It amazes me how long it takes for the message to get through sometimes!

Haha did you know I coach swimming?

Swimmer (after missing national time by .1 sec): I really wanted to get that National time coach

Coach: Ok, why did you breath twice in the last 5m again.

Athlete: I forgot

Coach: Sigh