Jake Lever and one of the McGoverns should fix that!

It mainly happens when our anchor is not allowed to sit off the back. Collingwood did it pretty well. Our heavy scoring has masked it to an extent.

4 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Jake Lever and one of the McGoverns should fix that!

So we just wait a full year until Lever gets back? lol. 

We need to change something and get more numbers back because once the opposition team wins the clearance you can almost immediately see their pathway to goal. 

We need a CHB and let Hibberd, Smith, Lewis, Lever etc play their flanker roles. Taking a lot of run and drive out when Hibberd plays CHB sand has to double spoil with Smith, there goes the ground players. To me it looks simple, I’m unsure why Goodwin keeps persisting with it to be honest.

@Dr.D haha, our season is done mate, haven’t you heard?

Edited June 26, 20186 yr by SFebey

Petty in 

vince out, or vince back into a tagging role 

He's right about the aggressive press being a big factor. One our the back we are in trouble. One because without hunt doubling back (or mids having the pace to get back) we lack pace but also it means that the kick inside 50 is often under no pressure - which is the real killer.

Its a double edge sword though. The aggresice press is rge key factot in our high scoring.

Just now, binman said:

Its a double edge sword though. The aggresice press is rge key factot in our high scoring.

Which is why we are smashing rubbish teams. The ones with the skill to maintain possession can work through the press without turning it over.

It’s quite obvious when we are the best inside 50 side by a mile. If we don’t take advantage of them we lose like last week. Playing an all offensive game will win all the soft games but wont win finals or high pressure games. We sacrifice defence for scoring opportunities. And when we are a bit off, flood gates open. Adelaide played similar last season and we know what happened. I have been lamenting we are too close to  following their unbalanced game for a while. If we don’t score more than a 100 points  a game we lose. We have won all when we score a 100 plus and lost all under. 

Edited June 26, 20186 yr by america de cali

6 minutes ago, america de cali said:

 And when we are bit off, 

It's a bit more than that. The opposition clog up the forward line to dry up our scoring options. We haven't figured a way around it.

14 minutes ago, Roger Mellie said:

It's a bit more than that. The opposition clog up the forward line to dry up our scoring options. We haven't figured a way around it.

True and when they do that our inside 50 entries become panicky and unfocused. You have to get the ball inside 50 to create the bulk of the scoring options. Weak links have been players like Hogan, Petracca and Garlett who can’t handle the high pressure stuff once the ball is in there. The saving grace is that we still get the ball in there. We need forward and midfield players who can handle pressure or change the way they play.

Edited June 26, 20186 yr by america de cali

1 minute ago, america de cali said:

True and when they do that our inside 50 entries become panicky and unfocused. You have to get the ball inside 50 to create the bulk of the scoring options. Weak links have been players like Hogan, Petracca and Garlett who can’t handle the high pressure stuff. 

Jeffy hasn't been in the mix lately de cali.

Going in to Friday night's game without a small forward to crumb (and making an already sluggish midfield more pedestrian with Tyson for Spargo) was always going to play into the hands of Port.  Allowed them to play an extra medium tall down back and kill the long bombs without a worry when the ball hit the deck.  They selected no small defenders and no issue covering us on the outside through the middle either.

Too easy ( >Goody"s selections / >Classy speedy outsider needed).

 

6 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Jeffy hasn't been in the mix lately de cali.

Going in to Friday night's game without a small forward to crumb (and making an already sluggish midfield more pedestrian with Tyson for Spargo) was always going to play into the hands of Port.  Allowed them to play an extra medium tall down back and kill the long bombs without a worry when the ball hit the deck.  They selected no small defenders and no issue covering us on the outside through the middle either.

Too easy ( >Goody"s selections / >Classy speedy outsider needed).

 

That’s why Garlett hasn’t been playing. Is hopeless in high pressure situations. And a puff of wind blows him out of any contests. Yes we blew it by not having a crumber. I would also suggest Spargo or Bugg instead of Petracca was a better option. 

Edited June 26, 20186 yr by america de cali

54 minutes ago, SFebey said:

We need a CHB and let Hibberd, Smith, Lewis, Lever etc play their flanker roles. Taking a lot of run and drive out when Hibberd plays CHB sand has to double spoil with Smith, there goes the ground players. To me it looks simple, I’m unsure why Goodwin keeps persisting with it to be honest.

@Dr.D haha, our season is done mate, haven’t you heard?

Yep, HIbberd is a perfect HBFlanker - not to be played at CHB. Lever is out, sadly, so another tall spoiler/marker/runner/interceptor is required and possibly Frost or Pedo will fill that role, with a few young guns given runs to test their mettle. Lewis is handy but struggles to get the ball or to confront running opposition forwards; thus, I would put the overworked Jones from midfield to Lewis' HBFlank. But OMac needs assistance deep so the tall that may be left over should be in a Backpocket opposite to Jetta the King. That is the training ground for a newbie to become a more rounded and effective CHB. Salem is not strong enough to occupy a back position and his kicking has not been let loose because of this. Salem needs a flanker role on the fwdline or should be used off the bench as a ball driver in close. To achieve this, we must instil more aptitude for our fwds to lead into space - for the 943rd time!

As for our season being done, DrD, you can go before the Medical Board and explain your professional negligence!

 

There's no coincidence that we were all lauding the backline figuring out how to play together and our run of 6 wins, I don't just put it down to playing weaker teams. In those wins we often had a defender who'd drop off to play a goal keeper type role. So the quick movement was stopped when a team looked up and saw that player ready to intercept. As soon as Lever went out, we again looked like we had all our backline following their direct forwards so it made it easy to kick out the back to space and score (very easily done to us as we're not quick back there).

This is not unexpected when you have guys like OMac and JSmith (who have less than 60 games between them) playing the key roles. This is where Lewis, Hibberd, Vince and even Jetta have to control them and keep them back. I still want another tall and think Vince should go out, then there has to be at least one player who is happy to let their man run up to the back of our forward pressure zone but then acts as a stopper so the quick movement out of that zone is stopped. It'll allow the others to get back and make it harder for teams to score. 

1 hour ago, america de cali said:

That’s why Garlett hasn’t been playing. Is hopeless in high pressure situations. And a puff of wind blows him out of any contests. Yes we blew it by not having a crumber. I would also suggest Spargo or Bugg instead of Petracca was a better option. 

Or maybe Spargo / Bugg for Tyson / Smith DC?  Go smaller for the extra crumbs / goal potential and speed around half forward.

Frost in for Vince could have covered the resting ruck role.  Just need to compete and halve the contest when Maxy's resting.  Any big body will do for Maxy as long as it's not a top liner.

Edited June 27, 20186 yr by Rusty Nails

2 hours ago, Clintosaurus said:

Which is why we are smashing rubbish teams. The ones with the skill to maintain possession can work through the press without turning it over.

Agree. Which is why we will smash saints.

It is also why losing lever was so bad for us. He was just hitting his straps and rhe back half their systems andvset ups to allow him to plst the last man sweeper role. Huge out.

Also this is a very selective statistic. 

We are ranked 9th for scores against, which is much better than the 16th once they are inside 50. The point is correct that because of the press that opposition score against us when they get it over the back. But to go from 9th to 18th (i.e. the best) team, it is reducing our scores against by 2 goals a game. To be up with St Kilda and Carlton as Gary has put us, teams would need to score 4 goals a game more each week. 

Yes we do need to reduce a goal or 2 per game that we give to other teams (although if you take our 3 blow outs - Haw, Rich, Coll, - and only make them 2 goal losses, it gets us a lot closer to the pin) - but there was something quite interesting Salem said today in the press conference - that Bernie and Lewis down back are helping Salem improve his game. 

Long run here, yes a fairy tale would be nice, but it is about getting the pieces to have a dynasty - not just a flash in the pan. 

3 hours ago, Demonland said:

 

More interesting is that we have the highest av winning margin - and the highest average losing margin ( c.f to teams down to 14th spot on the ladder). Thus I expect/hope  real floggings and % builders in the next 3 weeks, buying the staff this time to fix it.

Huge potential  at least for 2019 onward  if the downside can be sorted

So Petty sounds the most like Lever in how he plays, so should have us being most like the weeks where scores against were low?

We did only concede 75 last week. Collingwood and Hawthorn are the only real shockers score against wise.

 

2 hours ago, Dee-licious said:

We are ranked 9th for scores against, which is much better than the 16th once they are inside 50. 

It's a selective statistic because it points to a major weakness in our defensive unit and the individuals that play there. We may be ranked 9th for scores against, but that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. That's simply a reflection of the teams we've played against and how dominant our midfield has been in those games. 

Of course if opposition sides are gaining quick entries inside 50 with not a lot of pressure put on the kicker, it's much harder for our defenders to do their job. So I'm sure that contributes. 

But. 

Without even needing to look at stats, there are many many supporters who know the ease at which opposition sides seem to score with a loose ball inside 50. 

Aside from Jetta and Hibberd when he is in form, our scrapping ability in defensive situations has to be up there with the worst in the comp over the last two years. Whether it's multiple defenders going up to spoil, players leaving their opponents to try and impact a contest which inevitably doesn't happen, Vince or Lewis crumbling under physical contact and failing to mark their opponent or Oscar's lack of physical strength and inability to really impose himself at this stage yet, it's all problematic. 

The amount of times I've seen a bobble ball in dispute on the ground in our defensive 50 and can already predict an opposition score due to a less than satisfactory effort from repeat offenders in our backline is astonishing. We make the relatively easy look very very hard back there at times. We seem to have players who have an inconceivable disparity between their best and worst efforts. Very few can actually halve a contest consistently.

Which is what makes Jetta so amazing as a defender. He wins contests that would on most occasions be halved by most good defenders and it'd be applauded. He is incredible. And he very rarely loses them. 

Having both Lewis and Vince play in a backline as one on one players against strong oppo is frightening imo. Both of them are wildly inconsistent in this aspect and make us extremely vulnerable to scoreboard pressure. 

Here's the thing. Everyone in the AFL world knows our game plan. Goodwin is hell bent on playing one way which is a forward half, high pressure, hard contested style of football that creates scores with repeat entries from immense pressure both in our forward line and through the midfield. If these elements and pillars of our game are even a little bit down, we're vulnerable immediately due to our inability to play any other way. Weve drafted players for the contest, not for run or use by foot or hand and not for composure. That's fine, but we need to tinker. 

I strongly believe that as of next year, we need to be playing two key backs with Lever as the third tall intercept specialist. I think we need to play a similar style setup to West Coast in our defensive 50 and to what Adelaide had when Lever was there. 

From the sounds and looks of it, Petty has more tricks than Oscar and I'm really hopeful that as of next year, we'll see him in the side permanently. Oscar imo will be like Kyle Hartigan for Adelaide. A stopper who doesn't need to do much other than stand his man and compete hard. Petty will be a step-up from Oscar given his pedegree as a defender at state level and his standout attributes which are intercept spoiling and play reading. But he needs to put on weight quickly. 

A backline next year that consists of an extra tall in the place of Vince would be ideal. 

B:         Jetta         O-Mac      Petty

HB:      Hibberd     Lever       Hunt

 

A taller defensive set-up is much more conducive to the type of game we play. If you play a high press as a defensive unit, it's paramount to have talls who specialise in intercept play. Petty and Lever both have that ability in spades and Oscar can hopefully become the anchor in that situation. Release Hibberd to a flank and bring Hunt back and we've got run. Jetta will be the rock and imo we look far more balanced and better equipped for opposition attack out of our forward line. 

I hope we see Petty this week for his first run. 

I'm not sorry about the long-winded post either. 

Edited June 27, 20186 yr by stevethemanjordan

Need to fix quickly.

London to a brick any tean we meet in finals ( if ) will have already played us and already know how to turn us inside out.

Our 'brand' is faulty.

Stevethemanjordan, epic. You deserve a weekend at a Buller chalet with drink passes for the Arlberg for that effort.

Praise be.

Petty in this week. Run of 3 teams he can play in and work into. If bad, drop back to develop.

Now is the time.

Isn't it?

12 hours ago, Roger Mellie said:

It's a bit more than that. The opposition clog up the forward line to dry up our scoring options. We haven't figured a way around it.

Power had 2 spares behind the ball last friday night conceding the ball into defensive 50 we where that on top, but kicking it to a 1 on 3 situation.

There were numerous times where instead of blazing away we had 2-3 players running in unison where they could attacked that space, shepperd and spread until a defender actually committed to them. could have easily resulted in 5-6 scoring opportunities from 30 meters out.

Power had 55 rebound 50's it has to be a record, no composure to hit up lead targets but they have to be presenting.

This is why i struggle with ANB forward he doesnt have that natural Forward instict like a Jeffy, Melk, Fristchy,Hannan or Spargo.