Post Match Discussion - Round 2

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

@DV8

 

Like this?

The last five minutes of this doco are quite instructive (and shows how Richmond finally did break through).

I won't even bother opening this video as I am well aware of the Tigers history of sacking coaches, end on end.  And the damage they did to themselves.

No continuity in a footy club, is as bad as tolerating garbage from the club.

 

Why is it you didn't quote a club like the bombers, cbf?   They get very snaky when the club becomes weak.

Or are you about just sticking to your thoughts,

without having to see change at the Demons, for fear of, 'anything', just change ?

 

The trouble with the club is its not willing to change, to get stronger.  It has always lacked the courage to get a home base, (the swimming centre), or to pay players the going rates back in the 60's, or to chase after players we need often enough.

It had became a cheap skate club.

Wouldn't spend or give anything for better facilities for the players to work-out within. etc.

We strangled ourselves.

 

And this club has traditionally tried to put all eggs in one basket.  To make a difference (tilbrook).

When the real problem was, the club had just lost the real desire, and inner fire to be at the top again, whatever it took.

It lost the fighting spirit from the top, to beat all comers.  And since (the latter 60's) those attitudes have prevailed, within a majority of remaining supporters unknowing that they had become accustomed to failing ways.

 

Now is it any wonder we struggle to have ruthless ways, as a club, as a team.  Instead, we get political correctness.

The club is trying to change, but it needs to change more-so from within itself,,,  than the playing list, etc.

 

The list mirrors the attitudes of the whole club.  KAMA.  we get back, what we give out.

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by DV8

[Dr. Gonzo 24,311]

19 minutes ago, DV8 said:

I won't even bother opening this video as I am well aware of the Tigers history of sacking coaches, end on end.  And the damage they did to themselves.

No continuity in a footy club, is as bad as tolerating garbage from the club.

 

Why is it you didn't quote a club like the bombers, cbf?   They get very snaky when the club becomes weak.

Or are you about just sticking to your thoughts without having to see change at the Demons, for fear of, 'anything', just change ?

 

The trouble with the club is its not willing to change, to get stronger.  It has always lacked the courage to get a home base, (the swimming centre), or to pay players the going rates back in the 60's, or to chase after players we need often enough.

 

And this club has traditionally tried to put all eggs in one basket.  To make a difference (tilbrook).

When the real problem was, the club had just lost the real desire, and inner fire to be at the top again, whatever it took.

It had became a cheap skate club.

 

It lost the fighting spirit from the top, to beat all comers.  And since 9the latter 60's) those attitudes have prevailed, within a majority of remaining supporters unknowing that they had become accustomed to failing ways.

 

Now is it any wonder we struggle to have ruthless ways, as a club, as a team.  Instead, we get political correctness.

The club is trying to change, but it needs to change more-so from within itself,,,  than the playing list, etc.

 

The list mirrors the attitudes of the whole club.  KAMA.  we get back, what we give out.

Wouldn't spend or give anything for better facilities for the players to work-out within. etc.

We strangled ourselves.

 

Bombers haven't done much for almost 2 decades. Have a look at where their Whatever It Takes approach took them.

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, sue said:

Every time I've read a post saying that the backline needs to be set up to allow Lever to play his natural role and  groaning 'what are the coaches thinking?!!' Ive wondered if the club's plan is to either groom him for such a role, or at least make him capable of it when circumstances require, either in a match or in case of injury to other backmen.  Makes sense as long as we don't lose too many games on the way....

Also perhaps the FD's plan is to play super-attacking and not worry about defence when the opposition gets a roll on, figuring that once we've perfected it we'll be unstoppable.    After all, it is bloody obvious to anyone that it is a problem and to assume that the coaches of all people are blind to it is just ridiculous.   (Still I wish they'd have a plan B to reduce the strain on my heart).

They should, and they have to. Its pointless having one dimensional players.better to lose the occasional game now, developing the players to be well skilled players;  than to go on loosing in finals matches as we've done not so long ago.

 

The all out attacking game seems to be being tried out by most clubs, atmo, and I wonder if this is an AFL direction.

Last week we got the defence balance wrong and we payed dearly. Better after adjustments in the 2nd half. But too late.

[DV8 2,271]

14 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Bombers haven't done much for almost 2 decades. Have a look at where their Whatever It Takes approach took them.

They lost they're way after they moved out Sheedy. Then started to rebuild under Knights, then they shafted him, for Hird.  The rest is now well written.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Knights#Coaching_career

 

The saga adminis-trators even hoisted the old administrators out of the way, so the new admin could implement the things they did do.

 

None of that was to do with the outside club supporter attitude, but simply bad administration, and greediness.

And the rest is history now.

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

2 hours ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Veil of negativity.

Three words that got a lot of people into a fit but ones that were very apt.

When Roosy brought it up, he mentioned an episode where after we rolled the Lions in 2015 in a scrappy game, some bright spark wrote to him saying he would rather the team lose than win ugly like that. I wonder if there is any context that can be used after last night's win?

As @Nasher said, it seems with some (not all) if you aren't apoplectic over the Lions' comeback, you are accepting of mediocrity. Even being happy with the win is a sign of 'weakness' and that you aren't ruthless (among 15 other different football cliches).

All football clubs when reviewing games go over what worked, what didn't and work out a plan to capitalize on their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. Strong clubs also realize that it's not always going to be downhill skiing and take just as much out of adversity as they do out of success.

There is a reason why Melbourne supporters have the stereotype of being fickle snow bunnies. Cobblers like this.

We have some of the most dedicated supporters in the league but we will be known as pea hearts until we can ride the bumps.

I have had different experiences to you Colin. When people I meet find out I barrack for Melbourne the general reaction till recently was one of pity. The Club rather than the supporters has been seen as a pea hearted, basket case by pretty much one and all. 

As for riding the bumps well Rnd 23 last year was a biggy. The meek loss the previous year to Carlton when we were still in the race for finals was certainly a bump as was the 100 points loss to Geelong in Paul Roos’ last match as coach. 

Speaking of Geelong. 186 in 2011. That was bumpy

The Mark Neeld era. Regular 100 point losses by a team which would was really only VFL quality. Some say we were within a poomfteenth of folding if it wasn’t for the money stumped up by supporters including some on here. 

Two Grand finals in my lifetime. The first was a record losing margin and the second was a ten goal hiding that was over by half way through the second qtr. 

The current record of 11 seasons without a finals appearance pales compared to the run of 23 years that finished at a preliminary final that was lost by an Irishman running over the mark to tell his parents that we had won....Bumpy. 

Players, coaches and administrations all come and go. We are the only ones that stick around for the duration. I don’t know about you Colin but I am sick of being told to be patient. You are right it is not going to be all "downhill skiing" but it would be nice if there was some one day. 

 

[Males 578]

Stuck working while the game was on but watched the replay when I got home. I'm actually not that disappointed in the game, I thought our second quarter laps against Geelong was worse.

Lions kicked 7 goals to 0 in their run, but in between the 7 goals we missed set shots from Hogan, out on the full, and Oliver. Jetta also missed a pretty simple snap. There may have been another set shot and snap too, Bugg and Hunt?, can't remember now. Petracca also missed a set shot before the start of their run. We convert any of those shots and we would've taken the wind out of their sails.

Throw in a goal to the Lions after a lucky spoil from a Lions player landed in the lap of another Lions player 20 odd meters away too. ?

Still need to improve, but I'll take the 4pts.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,977]

Were all three of Christiansen’s goals from free kicks? 

[Deemania since 56 6,719]

18 hours ago, Mike said:

It's a real worry. He's looking like a senior citizen at the moment. Keeps giving away frees and always seems to fall over at the contest and ends up scrabbling around on the ground for the ball. Needs to justify his spot pretty quickly.

No matter what the skills, for Lewis the years are telling. His shortcuts in competitive play often represent alternatives to real physical exertion and are seen as holding episodes, swinging the arms rather than tackling front-on, and often result in him being knocked off his feet from which he is slow to get up again until the play has passed. For one so communicative onfield, he is not really being listened to by the players, otherwise his mantras would be more evident. It is a shame because he has been a great footballer with wonderful skills but the body and mind do not seem to be in such good harmony these days. 

[martin 727]

Is there a replay on Fox tonight/ early morning?

[Dee Zephyr 19,269]

4 minutes ago, martin said:

Is there a replay on Fox tonight/ early morning?

Not according to the Foxtel guide. Earliest time is 5.30am Thursday. Showing a few AFLW replays between now and then, why?

[Adam The God 30,430]

6 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

One (small) pleasing thing from our first two games: something we struggled with last year, and I know @jnrmac in particular was big on, was our first quarters.

Already in 2018 we've had more first quarters with 5+ goals than for the entire 2017 season.

At least we've started our games a bit better so far this year.

Good post, TU. I have a feeling 2018 is all about finding balance. As long as we can keep winning early on, we'll hit our straps at a point and both ends of the ground will gel and we'll be formidable. 

At the moment, our defensive unit hasn't played a lot of football together and I think we've tweaked our press to sit deeper. This will take some time to implement consistently. The addition of Lever is also a personnel change that will require some time to gel.

We got the defensive area of our game right for 4 quarters in a row (the second half of the Geelong game and the first half of the Brisbane game). Unfortunately, the forwards and mids were wasteful of opportunities in those 4 quarters. We should have been out of sight in both games.

Our accuracy has been a big plus for us in the past, but this year it has noticeably dropped off. Improve this area of our game and we see us smash sides.

The other aspect to our game style that still requires gelling is the forwardline. When our tackle pressure in the midfield but also forward of centre diminishes, our entire game style falls over and we get scored against heavily. So laying tackles is paramount, but also connecting between centre and half forward to goal is really important. Guys like Melksham, Petracca and (even) Fritsch are really good at this. Little lead ups to centre wing and high half forward and then clean ball use inside 50.

We had real difficulty all of last week with these connecting players. Petracca managed it on occasion, but Melksham really struggled. But if we get consistent output from our forwards, they lay tackles and help connect as they should, then our entire team is helped. 

At this stage though, I'd say there's too much room for error in our game style, but there was far more last year. I think we've worked on a Plan A and B as I said last week, and these two presses will be implemented depending on the strength of the opposition. With more game time and experience, our players should be able to show a greater level of consistency and therefore execute the game plan most weeks.

I really believe we're getting there and will get there. It might take another year of patience though. But let me be clear. I expect finals this year.

[martin 727]

 

Just now, Demon77 said:

Not according to the Foxtel guide. Earliest time is 5.30am Thursday. Showing a few AFLW replays between now and then, why?

Thanks. Just away. Internet poor. Foxtel but no guide/ IQ.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,891]

5 hours ago, DemonOX said:

HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE. 

Can’t say rum and coke and chocolate eggs go well together but I will push through it. 

A win no matter how beats losin any day imo. 

Yeah, I'm sure it's a real struggle.  

Be a bit like rum and raisins chocolate wouldn't it?

[Dee Zephyr 19,269]

1 minute ago, martin said:

 

Thanks. Just away. Internet poor. Foxtel but no guide/ IQ.

? Wasn’t questioning you, wondering why they would show AFLW replays?

[Clintosaurus 7,874]

13 minutes ago, martin said:

Is there a replay on Fox tonight/ early morning?

It was on 11 am today. Was easier to watch than live.

[Surfer Dee 210]

Brisbane are better than people give them credit for. They’ll be in the 8-12 range this year. We played well, then weathered their attack and ran away with it in the end.

It’s only a matter of time until it all clicks for us this year, and when it does, it will be glorious. We’ll kill some opposition coaches this year for sure.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,891]

1 hour ago, Males said:

Stuck working while the game was on but watched the replay when I got home. I'm actually not that disappointed in the game, I thought our second quarter laps against Geelong was worse.

Lions kicked 7 goals to 0 in their run, but in between the 7 goals we missed set shots from Hogan, out on the full, and Oliver. Jetta also missed a pretty simple snap. There may have been another set shot and snap too, Bugg and Hunt?, can't remember now. Petracca also missed a set shot before the start of their run. We convert any of those shots and we would've taken the wind out of their sails.

Throw in a goal to the Lions after a lucky spoil from a Lions player landed in the lap of another Lions player 20 odd meters away too. ?

Still need to improve, but I'll take the 4pts.

Agreed.

They were also thrown a handful of pretty dodgy free kicks, including a few key ones in front of goal which helped them to some extent - still can't work out why the one against Hunt given to Charlie Cameron on the boundary line was really a free kick, mind you it was a good kick from him to convert it.  That all said, they got on top of us in the middle and around the ground for a period and that's what really did the damage.

Also to add that, it's all good saying flood numbers back (which we did do) and slow the game down, but when a team starts to get on top of you like that, the only real solution is to start winning the ball back at the source, get back on top and kick goals, otherwise it's just like holding back the tide.

[DemonOX 8,801]

22 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Yeah, I'm sure it's a real struggle.  

Be a bit like rum and raisins chocolate wouldn't it?

Ha ha Rodney no for me as the rum is sweet already chocolate doesn’t taste as good but like I said I will push through it!!!!

i do like chocolate raisins and nuts though but not with rum. 

Edited April 1, 2018 by DemonOX

[deelete my account 1,194]

58 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Were all three of Christiansen’s goals from free kicks? 

The ump crucified us and Christiansen's career rose from the dead.

[DemonOX 8,801]

5 minutes ago, Doodle Dee said:

The ump crucified us and Christiansen's career rose from the dead.

Couldn’t agree more Doodle. 

As I said at the game “stop looking through ur arse ump”. 

Unfortunately he didn’t listen!!

Edited April 1, 2018 by DemonOX

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

2 hours ago, fndee said:

I have had different experiences to you Colin. When people I meet find out I barrack for Melbourne the general reaction till recently was one of pity. The Club rather than the supporters has been seen as a pea hearted, basket case by pretty much one and all. 

As for riding the bumps well Rnd 23 last year was a biggy. The meek loss the previous year to Carlton when we were still in the race for finals was certainly a bump as was the 100 points loss to Geelong in Paul Roos’ last match as coach. 

Speaking of Geelong. 186 in 2011. That was bumpy

The Mark Neeld era. Regular 100 point losses by a team which would was really only VFL quality. Some say we were within a poomfteenth of folding if it wasn’t for the money stumped up by supporters including some on here. 

Two Grand finals in my lifetime. The first was a record losing margin and the second was a ten goal hiding that was over by half way through the second qtr. 

The current record of 11 seasons without a finals appearance pales compared to the run of 23 years that finished at a preliminary final that was lost by an Irishman running over the mark to tell his parents that we had won....Bumpy. 

Players, coaches and administrations all come and go. We are the only ones that stick around for the duration. I don’t know about you Colin but I am sick of being told to be patient. You are right it is not going to be all "downhill skiing" but it would be nice if there was some one day. 

 

Take it easy buddy.

[Slim 23]

I dont think we looked dominant at all 

First half we got a lead not because we were good but because they were bad,As soon as they improved we were in a fight

Leaky defence 

Too many passengers

And a forward line that simply dosent work that well

We just dont look like an 8 worthy team atm

 

[Brownie 5,991]

just watched the replay.

our defence seems to really panic when we started to fall apart.

That grub Berry that pushed Jetta in the back straight into that pack should be cited.

We were really lucky not to lose Jetta for a heap of time with a bad injury.

Really dangerous play

[Deemania since 56 6,719]

1 hour ago, Surfer Dee said:

Brisbane are better than people give them credit for. They’ll be in the 8-12 range this year. We played well, then weathered their attack and ran away with it in the end.

It’s only a matter of time until it all clicks for us this year, and when it does, it will be glorious. We’ll kill some opposition coaches this year for sure.

Players might not forget what it took to overcome the challenges of a 'revival' against us. It was in effect left to too few for so many but what these few did was remarkable. Occurring two weeks in a row, hopefully these experiences are remembered and ramified in our players' minds. 

[Deemania since 56 6,719]

1 hour ago, DemonOX said:

Couldn’t agree more Doodle. 

As I said at the game “stop looking through ur arse ump”. 

Unfortunately he didn’t listen!!

The umpires were a little harsh on MFC and a little too charitable with Brisbane. Most free kicks at goal were highly debatable and in their anxiety, the umpires went for the whistle just that little bit too early. We came up against a team with some talented 'stagers' and the umpires fell for it.