I think Spargo can be ok but I am Beginning to wonder whether our arrangement with Casey is impacting our kids’ development.  Baker should be better than he is. Bedford hasn’t come on. In fact, I find it difficult to pin point one player that has developed well down at Casey and then quickly risen to the challenge when called Upon in the 1s. Richmond is full of players like that.  

17 minutes ago, The Jackson 6 said:

I think Spargo can be ok but I am Beginning to wonder whether our arrangement with Casey is impacting our kids’ development.  Baker should be better than he is. Bedford hasn’t come on. In fact, I find it difficult to pin point one player that has developed well down at Casey and then quickly risen to the challenge when called Upon in the 1s. Richmond is full of players like that.  

You cannot develop players who don't have the necessary talent in the first place. The majority of draftees don't make it past three years. Sadly we seem to get more than our fair share. Baker has really not shown a lot at VFL level, I have seen him in  a number games. He does not have the speed / endurance to be a top level winger.

Edited March 9, 20214 yr by old dee

18 minutes ago, The Jackson 6 said:

I think Spargo can be ok but I am Beginning to wonder whether our arrangement with Casey is impacting our kids’ development.  Baker should be better than he is. Bedford hasn’t come on. In fact, I find it difficult to pin point one player that has developed well down at Casey and then quickly risen to the challenge when called Upon in the 1s. Richmond is full of players like that.  

Fritsch says hello

7 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Fritsch says hello

He played in the 1sts in round 1, 2018 and was drafted in November 2017. He has played 60 AFL games. Couldn’t have played more than 10 games at Casey (being generous).

 

edit. Forgot he was recruited from there so I will take your point on that one 

Edited March 9, 20214 yr by The Jackson 6

42 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Fritsch says hello

Fritsch was a late recruit and had a year at Casey before joining the AFL. From round 1 with Casey his talent was obvious.

Not sure we can say he was developed at Casey.. perhaps more correctly he showed his talent at Casey.

FWIW I agree that despite being regular finalists Casey has not been a fertile source for progressing our draftees. Petty is the next test. Before injury in 2020 he had 2 (or3) years at Casey.

Edited March 9, 20214 yr by Diamond_Jim

His spot is  in jeopardy for round 1 with Kozzie back and Chandler outplaying him.  Might even get Melk back too.

3 hours ago, Sydee said:

Add Dan Butler  

Ofcourse. So that's 5 very good small forwards that St Kilda have.

We have Pickett who kicked about 7 goals last year. And ANB who at least knows where the sticks are.

I'm annoyed at our recruiting and list management in regards to our small forwards and small defenders.

( I don't class Fritsch as a small forward as he's about 188cm. I do class him as a good forward though)

Edited March 9, 20214 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

I'm thinking Spargo will play well when it counts, which would be next week. I'm also beginning to discount practice games. Didn't we beat Footscray in a practice match last year, preseason?

4 hours ago, old dee said:

Agree but he has had 34 games for an average of 6 kicks per game, 2.4 tackles 0.7 goals. His long kicks struggle to make 40 metres

I think the writing is on the wall, surely by now almost anyone is worth investing  a few games to see if they can do better.

For any player those stats are alarming, but for a small player they are damning! 

4 hours ago, demonstone said:

Good old Elegt, the epitome of a foul weather "supporter". 

Only turns up when things are bad and then does nothing but criticise.

Look to be fair I think @Elegt once said that Oliver can play ...

30 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

Look to be fair I think @Elegt once said that Oliver can play ...

Lots of players can play at the dees but all the young ones are rubbish, bowey and rivers and to a lesser extent jackson are the only ones that have impressed me

6 minutes ago, Elegt said:

Lots of players can play at the dees but all the young ones are rubbish, bowey and rivers and to a lesser extent jackson are the only ones that have impressed me

Pickett rubbish you say?  OK we'll see how you go with that one ...

20 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

Pickett rubbish you say?  OK we'll see how you go with that one ...

Oh yes pickett can play, forgetting about him 

It strikes me that over many years there have been no examples of lesser known players having both a break out game and then progressing at that higher standard.

Weideman had such a game against Geelong in the finals but, notwithstanding a bad run of injuries, does not appear to have maintained that form. Others like Brayshaw, Spargo and ANB exhibit good passages in flashes but do not maintain that form either within a match or over several matches.

Those that are identified early like Oliver and Petracca reach a high level of performance quickly but never surge above that level although that level is maintained. There seems to be a "class ceiling" that hovers above our team.

Better coaching and development is the only answer. Let's hope the addition of Yze and Williams injects the required coaching expertise.

5 hours ago, Elegt said:

Get rid of Jason taylor

 

44 minutes ago, Elegt said:

Lots of players can play at the dees but all the young ones are rubbish, bowey and rivers and to a lesser extent jackson are the only ones that have impressed me

 

16 minutes ago, Elegt said:

Oh yes pickett can play, forgetting about him 

So Jackson, Pickett, Rivers and Bowey can all play.

Have you made your mind up about Laurie and Rosman yet?

But we should get rid of Jason Taylor?  OK ...

 

 

Well let's look at the last 5 years, appears more misses than hits, especially in 2016 and 2018 which have hit us quite hard. Noone from 2016 draft is even on the list.. Imagine Bowey, Laurie and Rosman all not being on the list in 2026. Also concerning is an overreliance on small players being drafted, all 7 picked in 2018 were smalls

 

Melbourne Demons AFL Draft Picks at the end of Season 2020 2020 AFL Draft Summary
	Type Round Pick Player Current Team Games Since Drafted *  National 1 21 Jake Bowey (?) Melbourne 0  National 1 22 Bailey Laurie (?) Melbourne 0  National 2 34 Fraser Rosman (?) Melbourne 0

Melbourne Demons AFL Draft Picks at the end of Season 2019 2019 AFL Draft Summary
	Type Round Pick Player Current Team Games Since Drafted *  National 1 3 Luke Jackson  (✓) Melbourne 6  National 1 12 Kysaiah Pickett (✓) Melbourne 14  National 2 32 Trent Rivers (✓) Melbourne 9

 

Melbourne Demons AFL Draft Picks at the end of Season 2018 2018 AFL Draft Summary
	Type Round Pick Player Current Team Games Since Drafted *  Midyear 1 3 Kyle Dunkley (X)   5  National 2 27 Tom Sparrow (X) Melbourne 7  National 2 33 James Jordan (X) Melbourne 0  National 3 53 Aaron Nietschke (X) Melbourne 0  National 4 56 Marty Hore (?) Melbourne 14  National 5 75 Toby Bedford A (X) Melbourne 2  Rookie 1 15 Kade Chandler (?) Melbourne 1

 

 

 

Melbourne Demons AFL Draft Picks at the end of Season 2017 2017 AFL Draft Summary
	Type Round Pick Player Current Team Games Since Drafted *  National 2 29 Charlie Spargo (X) Melbourne 34  National 2 31 Bayley Fritsch (✓) Melbourne 61  National 2 37 Harrison Petty (?) Melbourne 11  National 3 48 Oskar Baker (X) Melbourne 12

 

 

Melbourne Demons AFL Draft Picks at the end of Season 2016 2016 AFL Draft Summary
	Type Round Pick Player Current Team Games Since Drafted *  National 3 46 Mitchell Hannan (X) Western Bulldogs 50  National 4 64 Dion Johnstone (X)   0  Rookie 1 8 Lachlan Filipovic (X)   0  Rookie 2 25 Tim Smith (X)   13  Rookie 3 41 Declan Keilty (X)   2

Quote

In today's Melbourne Herald Sun there's a piece by Jay Clark about Melbourne's prospects for 2021. It's all predictable ho-hum stuff. (Goodwin's job is on the line; some wins early will set the team up; Petracca's important; etc). His team for Round 1 is there and includes Paul Spargo (yes, Paul) on the bench.

Not sure why this ended up as a "Quote". Software glitch? Or perhaps user error.

Edited March 11, 20214 yr by La Dee-vina Comedia

Cue the usual gloomers saying he'd be better value than Charlie.

On 3/9/2021 at 7:22 PM, Elegt said:

Well let's look at the last 5 years, appears more misses than hits, especially in 2016 and 2018 which have hit us quite hard. Noone from 2016 draft is even on the list.. Imagine Bowey, Laurie and Rosman all not being on the list in 2026. Also concerning is an overreliance on small players being drafted, all 7 picked in 2018 were smalls

 

Hannan was at least a break even, if not a tick. You get 50 decent games out of a pick 46 and get a future 3rd back that's fine.

Otherwise we didn't have top picks from 2016-2018, trading them away. And for some odd reason we just stopped having dips at the rookie list and with late picks since then too. That's an unforced error as far as I'm concerned. Those picks are lottery tickets that mostly lose but you have to be in it to win it.

Fritsch is a tick. Then the actual strength of the drafting and development of the 16-18 group will be graded by the impact of Petty, Spargo, Sparrow and Jordon. That's 5 second round picks. Get 3 out of 5 consistent best 22 and you're doing well. The late picks don't inspire a lot but Chandler and Hore (barring injury) should contribute a bit here and there.

I've seen enough to suggest all of the second rounders aren't too far off AFL level, there's no complete busts here. Spargo and Sparrow both played well last year in periods. Petty has shown skills at both ends. The training reviews and the game against Richmond from Jordon were solid. My guess is by the end of the year Spargo is established as a solid role player and at least one of the other 3 is in the side and looking promising with the other 2 doing well at VFL level. It's disappointing a couple of them aren't locked and loaded in the best side already, but there's still plenty of time.

We've had a lot of high picks come in and play well early, and we haven't had a great VFL side that made life easier for young guys to look good at a lower level. Plus no VFL last year. I think we've forgotten that for a whole lot of good AFL players their early years were a steady grind.

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Hannan was at least a break even, if not a tick. You get 50 decent games out of a pick 46 and get a future 3rd back that's fine.

Otherwise we didn't have top picks from 2016-2018, trading them away. And for some odd reason we just stopped having dips at the rookie list and with late picks since then too. That's an unforced error as far as I'm concerned. Those picks are lottery tickets that mostly lose but you have to be in it to win it.

Fritsch is a tick. Then the actual strength of the drafting and development of the 16-18 group will be graded by the impact of Petty, Spargo, Sparrow and Jordon. That's 5 second round picks. Get 3 out of 5 consistent best 22 and you're doing well. The late picks don't inspire a lot but Chandler and Hore (barring injury) should contribute a bit here and there.

I've seen enough to suggest all of the second rounders aren't too far off AFL level, there's no complete busts here. Spargo and Sparrow both played well last year in periods. Petty has shown skills at both ends. The training reviews and the game against Richmond from Jordon were solid. My guess is by the end of the year Spargo is established as a solid role player and at least one of the other 3 is in the side and looking promising with the other 2 doing well at VFL level. It's disappointing a couple of them aren't locked and loaded in the best side already, but there's still plenty of time.

We've had a lot of high picks come in and play well early, and we haven't had a great VFL side that made life easier for young guys to look good at a lower level. Plus no VFL last year. I think we've forgotten that for a whole lot of good AFL players their early years were a steady grind.

 

 

 

Spargo has never shown anything, sparrow has not impressed me either. I'd be more content if these high picks showed some form of AFL traits, I know players take time to come on but there should be some glimmer of AFL talent

On 3/9/2021 at 7:22 PM, Elegt said:

 

 

Well let's look at the last 5 years, appears more misses than hits, especially in 2016 and 2018 which have hit us quite hard. Noone from 2016 draft is even on the list.. Imagine Bowey, Laurie and Rosman all not being on the list in 2026. Also concerning is an overreliance on small players being drafted, all 7 picked in 2018 were smalls

 

Melbourne Demons AFL Draft Picks at the end of Season 2020 2020 AFL Draft Summary
	Type Round Pick Player Current Team Games Since Drafted *  National 1 21 Jake Bowey (?) Melbourne 0  National 1 22 Bailey Laurie (?) Melbourne 0  National 2 34 Fraser Rosman (?) Melbourne 0

Melbourne Demons AFL Draft Picks at the end of Season 2019 2019 AFL Draft Summary
	Type Round Pick Player Current Team Games Since Drafted *  National 1 3 Luke Jackson  (✓) Melbourne 6  National 1 12 Kysaiah Pickett (✓) Melbourne 14  National 2 32 Trent Rivers (✓) Melbourne 9

 

Melbourne Demons AFL Draft Picks at the end of Season 2018 2018 AFL Draft Summary
	Type Round Pick Player Current Team Games Since Drafted *  Midyear 1 3 Kyle Dunkley (X)   5  National 2 27 Tom Sparrow (X) Melbourne 7  National 2 33 James Jordan (X) Melbourne 0  National 3 53 Aaron Nietschke (X) Melbourne 0  National 4 56 Marty Hore (?) Melbourne 14  National 5 75 Toby Bedford A (X) Melbourne 2  Rookie 1 15 Kade Chandler (?) Melbourne 1

 

 

 

Melbourne Demons AFL Draft Picks at the end of Season 2017 2017 AFL Draft Summary
	Type Round Pick Player Current Team Games Since Drafted *  National 2 29 Charlie Spargo (X) Melbourne 34  National 2 31 Bayley Fritsch (✓) Melbourne 61  National 2 37 Harrison Petty (?) Melbourne 11  National 3 48 Oskar Baker (X) Melbourne 12

 

 

Melbourne Demons AFL Draft Picks at the end of Season 2016 2016 AFL Draft Summary
	Type Round Pick Player Current Team Games Since Drafted *  National 3 46 Mitchell Hannan (X) Western Bulldogs 50  National 4 64 Dion Johnstone (X)   0  Rookie 1 8 Lachlan Filipovic (X)   0  Rookie 2 25 Tim Smith (X)   13  Rookie 3 41 Declan Keilty (X)   2

No draftees from 2016 but you neglect to say first pick was #46

You also neglected to say that we've still got 10 players from 2017 and 2018 drafts on the list and the first pick there was #27.

Small players?  Have you seen the 3 Richmond Premiership teams in action?

6 minutes ago, Elegt said:

Spargo has never shown anything, sparrow has not impressed me either. I'd be more content if these high picks showed some form of AFL traits, I know players take time to come on but there should be some glimmer of AFL talent

Spargo came in and played very well in year 1, he immediately showed he could get to the right spots and had clean hands. Then last year when he broke back in to the side his pressure, goal kicking and skills were all sharp. He plays the toughest spot on the ground in a team that's allergic to clean ball use.

Sparrow had clean disposal when he played last year. There's a lot of work needed to turn his athletic traits in to consistent play but if he's clean when he gets it they can work out a role for him.

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Spargo came in and played very well in year 1

I would say he was ok at times but there were some glaring problems that are still there...

I don't see him being much more than fringe.

On 3/9/2021 at 3:46 AM, Pickett2Jackson said:

His spot is  in jeopardy for round 1 with Kozzie back and Chandler outplaying him.  Might even get Melk back too.

I'd take Spargo over Chandler any day, though I like what Chandler showed against Richmond. 

7 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Spargo came in and played very well in year 1, he immediately showed he could get to the right spots and had clean hands. Then last year when he broke back in to the side his pressure, goal kicking and skills were all sharp. He plays the toughest spot on the ground in a team that's allergic to clean ball use.

Sparrow had clean disposal when he played last year. There's a lot of work needed to turn his athletic traits in to consistent play but if he's clean when he gets it they can work out a role for him.

Sparrow,  athletic traits? I don't see it