3 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

 

Those that complain don't understand the concept of biting the hand that feeds you.

VP you spoke of the victim mentality in your earlier post. To me your statement above is just that.  

Are you suggesting that because we have received help, or as I prefer to call it redress or equalisation for rigged income earning fixtures, we are not allowed to feel aggrieved or complain about blatant favouritism in the fixture? The Carlton prime time fixture or playing at Geelong being major examples. 

I don't accept that receiving some help dooms you to being a passive subservient member of the AFL. 

Edited November 1, 20177 yr by Redleg

31 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You're an idiot if you don't think the bigger clubs are already do the same thing. Look at how the "equalisation" discussion was hijacked a couple of years ago and who was on the working group for that.

Does this mean you are not going to bring your idea forward at the next AGM? Dont let me stop you. 

Dash it would have been very amusing its such a well thought out idea. 

On 31/10/2017 at 3:48 PM, buck_nekkid said:

Now you have spoiled it for me.  (I will be at most of them, anyway, so no biggie for me)

But the replays....

3 minutes ago, DaveyDee said:

Does this mean you are not going to bring your idea forward at the next AGM? Dont let me stop you. 

Dash it would have been very amusing its such a well thought out idea. 

Better idea than just belittling people who make suggestions. 

Individuals and organizations banding together to achieve an objective is hardly the most unusual thing in society.  But feel free to dismiss it as some hippie leftist fantasy if that makes you happy, but don't mock the person suggesting it.

10 minutes ago, Redleg said:

VP you spoke of the victim mentality in your earlier post. To me your statement above is just that.  

Are you suggesting that because we have received help, or as I prefer to call it redress or equalisation for rigged income earning fixtures, we are not allowed to feel aggrieved or complain about blatant favouritism in the fixture? The Carlton prime time fixture or playing at Geelong being major examples. 

I don't accept that receiving some help dooms you to being a passive subservient member of the AFL. 

Interesting post. Can I ask ... Why feel aggrieved or complain about blatant favouritism in the fixture? Where does it get you? How do you think it makes you appear? 

Why not just live with it deal with it and make the best of it you can? 

14 minutes ago, sue said:

Better idea than just belittling people who make suggestions. 

Individuals and organizations banding together to achieve an objective is hardly the most unusual thing in society.  But feel free to dismiss it as some hippie leftist fantasy if that makes you happy, but don't mock the person suggesting it.

I apologise to you and Dr Gonzo - best of luck putting your suggestion into action.  

22 minutes ago, DaveyDee said:

Interesting post. Can I ask ... Why feel aggrieved or complain about blatant favouritism in the fixture? Where does it get you? How do you think it makes you appear? 

Why not just live with it deal with it and make the best of it you can? 

I was replying to a post that said we should be beholden to the AFL and effectively never complain about anything. 

This is a fan forum where fans express their opinions and challenge those of others. 

6 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I was replying to a post that said we should be beholden to the AFL and effectively never complain about anything. 

This is a fan forum where fans express their opinions and challenge those of others. 

That seems a fairly easy proportion to understand MR. Leg. Sadly a lot on here struggle with it.

39 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I was replying to a post that said we should be beholden to the AFL and effectively never complain about anything. 

This is a fan forum where fans express their opinions and challenge those of others. 

Granted, I also did the same. So we are all in agreement.

I just asked a few simple questions - no need to answer them.

I was just trying to follow your logic and get an understanding of why you think we should bite the hand that feeds us. Why we should complain.   

 

Edited November 1, 20177 yr by DaveyDee

8 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Do you use that instead of a toilet?

Yes the MFC 2018 ‘draw’ is definitely toilet material.   Blue baggers have the porcelain crown by comparison !!!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/richmond-goes-from-afls-secondeasiest-draw-to-secondhardest-while-collingwood-gets-dream-run/news-story/3402a919643eaab388715b312b99ce0f

Draw difficulty

Ranking (hardest to easiest)	Club	2017 ladder finish (post finals)
1	Fremantle	14th
2	Richmond	1st
3	West Coast	6th
4	Hawthorn	12th
5	St Kilda	11th
6	GWS	4th
7	Melbourne	9th
8	Adelaide	2nd
9	Western Bulldogs	10th
10	Essendon	8th
11	Carlton	16th
12	Brisbane	18th
13	Geelong	3rd
14	Sydney	5th
15	Port Adelaide	7th
16	Gold Coast	17th
17	North Melbourne	15th
18	Collingwood	13th
* Draw difficulty as assessed by Champion Data

8 hours ago, DaveyDee said:

Yeah its called make money. Quite simple really. 

And that's a problem?

What do you suggest we do,  try and not make money?

 

8 hours ago, DaveyDee said:

Im stick with my conspiracy theory - the AFL is sending the MFC members and supporters a clear message - stand on your own two feet or we will remain in control.

We're already standing on our own 2 feet ... read our annual reports and stop making stuff up. 

 

7 hours ago, DaveyDee said:

I agree with you. However, the massive game changer is coming - the removal of poker machines.

Serious question ... when are the poker machines finishing up?  Have you got documentation to support your claim?

 

6 hours ago, DaveyDee said:

Would we all sing Kum ba yah at the start or the end of the bloc meetings?

Maybe we could run the meetings at Centrelink. Lets name the bloc - The Brotherhood of St Lawrence.

Why dont you put forward this suggestion at the next AGM? 

I would much prefer we spend our time working on ways we can stand on our own two feet. .

So @Dr. Gonzo puts forward an intelligent suggestion and you shoot him down and then offer ... nothing.  That's you in a nutshell. 

 

4 hours ago, DaveyDee said:

Interesting post. Can I ask ... Why feel aggrieved or complain about blatant favouritism in the fixture? Where does it get you? How do you think it makes you appear? 

Why not just live with it deal with it and make the best of it you can? 

I reckon it makes @Redleg look like a passionate demon who wants the best for his club.  How about you?  Do you want the best for your club? 

 

3 hours ago, DaveyDee said:

I was just trying to follow your logic and get an understanding of why you think we should bite the hand that feeds us. Why we should complain.  

We're getting fed 3 day old scraps and have done for years now - decades in fact.  Of late (2011 to 2016) we've been continuously 'granted' 7 home fixtures against poor drawing interstate teams and people wonder why we're not well off.  Often our other home games in those years were against the other smaller Melbourne clubs.  You want proof? - go to AFL tables and see for yourself. 

And that's the main reason we are selling off games to the NT ... do you reckon that we want to do that?  Maybe we've been forced to do so to balance the books.

A 1.4 million dollar grant in 2013 and you reckon there's lots more.  So where is this extra funding that you continually bang on about? 

For the record ...

AFL payments to clubs revealed, Giants handed $21 million

2016 PAYMENTS TO CLUBS

1. GWS Giants $21,548,374

2. St Kilda $18,566,589

3. Western Bulldogs $17,610,181

4. Brisbane Lions $17,532,922

5. Gold Coast Suns $17,194,594

6. North Melbourne $15,022,303

7. Melbourne $14,799,452

8. Port Adelaide $13,206,665

9. Sydney Swans $12,488,957

10. Richmond $12,358,925

11. Essendon $11,914,715

12. West Coast Eagles $11,703,240

13. Hawthorn $11,614,683

14. Carlton $11,607,942

15. Collingwood $11,304,689

16. Geelong Cats $10,787,483

17. Fremantle Dockers $10,563,307

18. Adelaide Crows $10,553,565

*All clubs received an $8.188 million base payment and a $1.2 million bonus payment.

Extra payments included equal and disequal financial assistance, prize money, and distributions from Etihad Stadium signage rights.

On the surface it looks like the 4 smaller Melbourne clubs are getting some form of compensation but our growth is stifled in comparison to the well-looked-after big clubs.  As a consequence, the gap between the rich & poor gets wider by the year.

 

 

Edited November 1, 20177 yr by Macca

I'm now in the silent majority who doesn't really care about the fixture.

We look like we can make some money on our home games and the rest is just the reality of being a small team that has done nothing.

9 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I'm now in the silent majority who doesn't really care about the fixture.

We look like we can make some money on our home games and the rest is just the reality of being a small team that has done nothing.

I couldn't care less either, mate.  There is some good and there is some bad.  It's the same every single year.

There isn't much to talk about at this time of the year so the fixture gets more analysis than it should.

4 hours ago, Demonland said:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/richmond-goes-from-afls-secondeasiest-draw-to-secondhardest-while-collingwood-gets-dream-run/news-story/3402a919643eaab388715b312b99ce0f

Draw difficulty

Ranking (hardest to easiest)	Club	2017 ladder finish (post finals)
1	Fremantle	14th
2	Richmond	1st
3	West Coast	6th
4	Hawthorn	12th
5	St Kilda	11th
6	GWS	4th
7	Melbourne	9th
8	Adelaide	2nd
9	Western Bulldogs	10th
10	Essendon	8th
11	Carlton	16th
12	Brisbane	18th
13	Geelong	3rd
14	Sydney	5th
15	Port Adelaide	7th
16	Gold Coast	17th
17	North Melbourne	15th
18	Collingwood	13th
* Draw difficulty as assessed by Champion Data

Thank-you for posting.

I liked this post because think it supports the notion from a football perspective our draw is tough but fair. I like that - if you want to be the best you have to beat the best. I'm sticking with my earlier comment - this is a type of draw if we make the finals we could win the whole damn lot - premiership included.

However, I will concede this article does not cover the financial implications of the fixture - but as a club PJ has talked about that on so many occasions I'm not going to repeat it. 

Cant wait for 2018 to start - we have a very bright future. 

Edited November 1, 20177 yr by DaveyDee

Despite continually receiving a fixture that doesn't ever satisfy our financial needs,  the club continues to post up profits. 

The last 3 seasons has seen the club finish in the black and PJ has confidently stated that we will post up another profit this season. 

Just imagine how well we'd be going if we were a regular finalist whilst receiving a favourable fixture from a financial viewpoint.

All this without any AFL handouts (apart from one 1.4 million dollar grant in 2013)

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited November 1, 20177 yr by Macca

A small detour (considering the track has already buckled):

We could be looking at minor milestones for our youngun's in just about every other game through the middle of the season:

Salem - 46 games

Harmes - 44 .

Hunt - 41

Petracca - 39

Oscar - 37

Brayshaw - 36

Stretch - 36

Oliver - 35

ANB - 34

It's probably not that unusual to have so many young players at a club floating around that mark but most will be expected to be core starters this year. I'm hoping that the repetition of milestones week-in week-out will add to a sense of belonging and unity. And if we just happened to snatch a flag, watch out when these players are then hitting the 80/100 game-marks in the following seasons (along with Hogan - currently 51 and Lever and Frost - 56).

Go Dees!

 

Edited November 1, 20177 yr by Skuit

The fixture is the fixture.

The game is a business and the AFL is the Governing Body of that business and all those who fall within its web including the clubs are captive to the business. 

As with all businessss, the outcomes are influenced by the bargaining power of individuals, clubs, TV stations, media etc. 

Outcomes are reached as a result of the participation of all these forces, some conflicting others not. It is a marketplace but not a free marketplace. A little like China where the burgeoning market is still heavily influenced and controlled by The Party, Governnent and ruling elites. 

The AFL governance is not about fairness. It is about producing maximal financial outcomes for the competition, the clubs, the players and the salaried staff of the AFL. 

The fixture is the best example of where the AFL attempts to produce an outcome that satisfies the business imperative and yet accommodates all parties after a period of bargaining and wheeling and dealing. 

However,  despite angst over the fixture, arguably we have a competition that (as a result of the draft, income redistribution, and increased professionalism across all clubs) is very even. Over the past few years we have had two cellar dwellers winning the flag and a host of clubs vying for the 8.  The MFC had every opportunity in 2017 to make the 8 and go on with it. We had games during the season that we could have and should have won but fell short. At the end of the season we had injury and poor form and a game plan that fell apart. 

Just like everything else in the world, you have to make do with the hand you are given. In the real world there are many that simply cannot get up off the deck due to the hand they have been dealt. Some do but many don't.

In the fixed market place of AFL footy, all clubs have the capacity, if their good enough, to get off the deck at least for one or two seasons and win a flag, 

 

33 minutes ago, hemingway said:

The fixture is the fixture.

The game is a business and the AFL is the Governing Body of that business and all those who fall within its web including the clubs are captive to the business. 

As with all businessss, the outcomes are influenced by the bargaining power of individuals, clubs, TV stations, media etc. 

Outcomes are reached as a result of the participation of all these forces, some conflicting others not. It is a marketplace but not a free marketplace. A little like China where the burgeoning market is still heavily influenced and controlled by The Party, Governnent and ruling elites. 

The AFL governance is not about fairness. It is about producing maximal financial outcomes for the competition, the clubs, the players and the salaried staff of the AFL. 

The fixture is the best example of where the AFL attempts to produce an outcome that satisfies the business imperative and yet accommodates all parties after a period of bargaining and wheeling and dealing. 

However,  despite angst over the fixture, arguably we have a competition that (as a result of the draft, income redistribution, and increased professionalism across all clubs) is very even. Over the past few years we have had two cellar dwellers winning the flag and a host of clubs vying for the 8.  The MFC had every opportunity in 2017 to make the 8 and go on with it. We had games during the season that we could have and should have won but fell short. At the end of the season we had injury and poor form and a game plan that fell apart. 

Just like everything else in the world, you have to make do with the hand you are given. In the real world there are many that simply cannot get up off the deck due to the hand they have been dealt. Some do but many don't.

In the fixed market place of AFL footy, all clubs have the capacity, if their good enough, to get off the deck at least for one or two seasons and win a flag, 

 

Nice post - I would like to add one thing the game is not always won by the player dealt the "best hand" there is an element of luck, skill and probabilities to calculate. However, mostly importantly time is a vital resource - dont bog yourself down worrying about details you cant change - complain all you want, blame others all you want but the keys to success is to find your ways over and around road blocks. The "world" and others are not out to get you stay positive, stay focused and stay on track. Dont let others control you thinking - if it is to be its up to me.

Edited November 1, 20177 yr by DaveyDee

Get ready to play the Hawks in Tassie next year:

Jeff Kennett arguing that more Melbourne based teams should play the Hawks in Tasmania

"While I respect those teams, I have long argued that the Tasmanian community would like to see some of the older Melbourne clubs on our schedule. It is very disappointing for Tasmanians who love their football and we believe they should be given better recognition by those who administer the game. "

He also wants the hawks to be the first club to 100,000 members

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/jeff-kennett-says-hawthorn-deserved-a-better-afl-2018-fixture-in-tasmania-20171101-gzcsgi.html

Those who have an indifferent attitude towards our fixture have no right to complain about the NT venture (even if we increase the amount of games we play in the Territory)

Why?  Because the fixture we get forces the club to sell off games elsewhere.  So yeah,  the fixture is important. 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited November 1, 20177 yr by Macca

Our fixture is our fixture. And i cant be bothered going over ground i have covered on dl at this  time of year every year since i started posting.

Suffice to say the role of the afl is not purely to make money. IT IS NOT A BUSINESS in this sense. It is to run a fair and equitable competition, that yes continues to grow. It should, like the most analogous comp the nfl, create a fair draw where teams play each orher once (perhaos with a rolling annual double up to get to 23 rounds) and key free air to air matches like friday nights are shared equitably. That is equalisation.

Stand on our two feet? Bite the hand that feeds us? Sheesh. The afl exists for the clubs not the other way round

 

18 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

Add Jack Watts to that list of moaning...

 

BS.

 

If Jack Watts left Melbourne a year of so ago, we would have labelled him a "traitor".  He stuck fat when we were siht.  We should stick fat over his temporary plot-losing in the pre-season of 2017.

 

The supporters who have heavily questioned Jack's off-loading, have some idea about:

 - LOYALTY being a 2-way street

 - VALUE. Pick 31 and negative $150,000 gets you absolute carp in this game.

 - not blindly following 100% what the club spits out.  The latest is that "he had trouble accepting feedback".

Posted under Baghdad Bob by mistake.

Edited November 1, 20177 yr by Baghdad Bob

18 hours ago, Redleg said:

VP you spoke of the victim mentality in your earlier post. To me your statement above is just that.  

Are you suggesting that because we have received help, or as I prefer to call it redress or equalisation for rigged income earning fixtures, we are not allowed to feel aggrieved or complain about blatant favouritism in the fixture? The Carlton prime time fixture or playing at Geelong being major examples. 

I don't accept that receiving some help dooms you to being a passive subservient member of the AFL. 

I don't accept that receiving some help dooms us to blindly support and be beholden to the AFL either Red, but my response was to Macca who stated we have stood on our own two feet when clearly we haven't.

Many on this forum continually look to inequities and excuses as to why we can't achieve things.  There wasn't a lot in the draw this year that hinders us so now we are turning to things such as "4 Friday night games for Carlton", "another away game at Geelong" and "another away game to Essendon".  They use these "garnish" issues to find excuses for us, why we can't succeed and they lay the blame at the feet of the AFL so any failure we have can be sheeted home to someone else.

Frankly I don't buy it.  If you don't take responsibility for your own performance and work in the environment you have you just set up reasons to fail.

Of course the AFL are responsible for inequities in the draw.  Of course they can be critiqued.  Of course they make mistakes.  But the reality for me is they have also kept us alive and been generous of spirit towards us when we have been on our knees and behaved atrociously.  I've said before I rarely if ever comment when I agree with the general mood as what is one more "voice of agreement" going to achieve.  But I will comment when I disagree with the general view here and I think the AFL get a bad rap for their treatment of us and there is another side to the AFL story that is rarely if ever represented here.