10 hours ago, London Demon said:

 You don't just cast aside A grade quality players like him. 

Perception vs reality is a funny thing. In what works is Watts A-grade? It takes FAR more than being able to kick a ball to be considered an A-grade PROFESSIONAL footballer.

Relevant JM quotes ripped from the official site:

 

“All of these calculations are based on having Jack Watts at our footy club and Jake Lever there as well, and all of our other players, so it’s got nothing to do with money,” he said.

“Jack’s is purely about performance. Our expectation on Jack, as a nine-year player and 150 games is what this discussion is about.

“That’s where it’s at, at the moment, and it’s been well-documented that he’s looking at different options at the moment and we’ve encouraged that. But if it ends up that he’s at Melbourne Football Club, well, he’s very clear on our expectations around him.”

Mahoney said he wasn’t surprised to hear Watts talk about his love for Melbourne at a media conference on Monday.

“To hear him speak is no surprise because he’s a very passionate person,” he said.

“He said how he was very frustrated and disappointed and we probably agree – we don’t want to be having these discussions with Jack Watts after nine years and we want him to be the player he should be and that’s where this discussion has got to.”

Mahoney said it was “retrievable” that Watts and the club could work together in the future.

“We’ve seen lots of these situations and it’s not unique to Jack,” he said.

“There is a certain stage where you have to look at opportunities.

“If it ends up that there are no opportunities that we think as a club is good for our club, or Jack thinks it’s not good for him, then we’ll get back together and be very clear again on what we expect from him.”

Well said: take your pick if it's good or bad news. For mine: good in the hope that this kerfuffle is the making of a champion.

6 hours ago, Skuit said:

Now that he's on the way out, I can finally say what I've been thinking for the past five years: Jack's kicking is overrated.

Given, Jack can have his creative moments to open up the play (and we missed he and Salem in Darwin), but I wish there was a stat which measured DE% against distance, as the majority of his clean-kicking over the course has been slow and dinky.

Actually, he and Hogan are not that dissimilar - both best suited to the same role, pretty tidy, but prone to holding up the play. Yet, I'd take Jesse over Jack.

And this has been one of my issues this year: our forward-line dynamic. A team full of mediums alongside talls who play medium. All of Hogan, Watts and Pedo play better when roaming up the ground.

But Watts can't contest, Hogan can't kick from beyond 40 or take a pack-mark, and Pedo can't get involved unless he is the prime mover.

We need more penetrating and accurate kickers coming into forward-line, and more key forwards who can stay at home. Hoping Oliver, Petracca, Hunt, Hibberd and Brayshaw will become the former, but the latter? 

Something has to give. 

Not sure how you have come to the conclusion that Watts kicking is overrated. Not only is our best user of the football by foot he'd be one of the best in the league. Not many players can slot goals from the pockets like he does. The problem in his early years was that Watts would kick the ball to space where his teammate should be but we had players who didn't know where to run. Watts has faults in his game but kicking isn't one of them.

 

This is an excellent opportunity for a coach.

Jack says I want to stay.

Coach says this is what I expect. Perform like this you stay.  I will play you and you can show your fellow players, coaches and opposition how good you can be. Increase your value and you can choose better options later including with us.

If you choose not to perform we all lose and your value goes down.

I expect you to be the fittest and strongest  you have ever been. We don't want you to get injured cause you were under prepared. Get training. It's gonna be a long hard and rewarding year.

Anyone thinking that this is a management faux pas needs to read the above fully. 

This is not about the standards of Jack Watts in isolation, it's about setting the standards of the the club as a whole and not with words but in concrete 

4 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

Relevant JM quotes ripped from the official site:

 

“All of these calculations are based on having Jack Watts at our footy club and Jake Lever there as well, and all of our other players, so it’s got nothing to do with money,” he said.

“Jack’s is purely about performance. Our expectation on Jack, as a nine-year player and 150 games is what this discussion is about.

“That’s where it’s at, at the moment, and it’s been well-documented that he’s looking at different options at the moment and we’ve encouraged that. But if it ends up that he’s at Melbourne Football Club, well, he’s very clear on our expectations around him.”

Mahoney said he wasn’t surprised to hear Watts talk about his love for Melbourne at a media conference on Monday.

“To hear him speak is no surprise because he’s a very passionate person,” he said.

“He said how he was very frustrated and disappointed and we probably agree – we don’t want to be having these discussions with Jack Watts after nine years and we want him to be the player he should be and that’s where this discussion has got to.”

Mahoney said it was “retrievable” that Watts and the club could work together in the future.

“We’ve seen lots of these situations and it’s not unique to Jack,” he said.

“There is a certain stage where you have to look at opportunities.

“If it ends up that there are no opportunities that we think as a club is good for our club, or Jack thinks it’s not good for him, then we’ll get back together and be very clear again on what we expect from him.”

Well said: take your pick if it's good or bad news. For mine: good in the hope that this kerfuffle is the making of a champion.

Thanks PM that's the sort of stuff I would like to see but more. There is no bad news it's all good. We will clear the air and progress.

2 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

Relevant JM quotes ripped from the official site:

 

“All of these calculations are based on having Jack Watts at our footy club and Jake Lever there as well, and all of our other players, so it’s got nothing to do with money,” he said.

“Jack’s is purely about performance. Our expectation on Jack, as a nine-year player and 150 games is what this discussion is about.

“That’s where it’s at, at the moment, and it’s been well-documented that he’s looking at different options at the moment and we’ve encouraged that. But if it ends up that he’s at Melbourne Football Club, well, he’s very clear on our expectations around him.”

Mahoney said he wasn’t surprised to hear Watts talk about his love for Melbourne at a media conference on Monday.

“To hear him speak is no surprise because he’s a very passionate person,” he said.

“He said how he was very frustrated and disappointed and we probably agree – we don’t want to be having these discussions with Jack Watts after nine years and we want him to be the player he should be and that’s where this discussion has got to.”

Mahoney said it was “retrievable” that Watts and the club could work together in the future.

“We’ve seen lots of these situations and it’s not unique to Jack,” he said.

“There is a certain stage where you have to look at opportunities.

“If it ends up that there are no opportunities that we think as a club is good for our club, or Jack thinks it’s not good for him, then we’ll get back together and be very clear again on what we expect from him.”

Well said: take your pick if it's good or bad news. For mine: good in the hope that this kerfuffle is the making of a champion.

It really seems the club has decided that maybe a real sting is the only thing that could get the best out of Watts now. 

He will either suck it up or move on. Don't think we really lose here.

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Perception vs reality is a funny thing. In what works is Watts A-grade? It takes FAR more than being able to kick a ball to be considered an A-grade PROFESSIONAL footballer.

I agree, I think the only two players that are A grade on our list are Gawn and Oliver, others like Petracca have potential but aren't there yet.

17 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

Relevant JM quotes ripped from the official site:

 

“All of these calculations are based on having Jack Watts at our footy club and Jake Lever there as well, and all of our other players, so it’s got nothing to do with money,” he said.

“Jack’s is purely about performance. Our expectation on Jack, as a nine-year player and 150 games is what this discussion is about.

“That’s where it’s at, at the moment, and it’s been well-documented that he’s looking at different options at the moment and we’ve encouraged that. But if it ends up that he’s at Melbourne Football Club, well, he’s very clear on our expectations around him.”

Mahoney said he wasn’t surprised to hear Watts talk about his love for Melbourne at a media conference on Monday.

“To hear him speak is no surprise because he’s a very passionate person,” he said.

“He said how he was very frustrated and disappointed and we probably agree – we don’t want to be having these discussions with Jack Watts after nine years and we want him to be the player he should be and that’s where this discussion has got to.”

Mahoney said it was “retrievable” that Watts and the club could work together in the future.

“We’ve seen lots of these situations and it’s not unique to Jack,” he said.

“There is a certain stage where you have to look at opportunities.

“If it ends up that there are no opportunities that we think as a club is good for our club, or Jack thinks it’s not good for him, then we’ll get back together and be very clear again on what we expect from him.”

Well said: take your pick if it's good or bad news. For mine: good in the hope that this kerfuffle is the making of a champion.

Nice work! I particularly like the idea that the FD have put a clear picture in front of Watts --- do this, or otherwise explore options.

I did also like this bit from Mahoney:

'Mahoney was also adamant that Jesse Hogan would remain at Melbourne, after rumours over Grand Final weekend suggested that the key forward was gettable for Western Australian clubs.

“It’s probably not a good combination – alcohol and trade period,” he said.'

 

This reminds me of Dusty only a few years ago when he tried to explore other options when Richmond only offered a modest uplift in his new contract. I recall at the time that they were frustrated with his on and off field performance but were willing to have him back if he wanted to. No other club was interested and the rest is history.

I was so pleased that Mahoney spoke this morning representing the club. His message I heard was clear to Jack and that is "Pull up your socks as your attitude in the first year of your new contract does not meet expectations".

Mahoney has been fantastic. There have been no leaks, surprise late action in drafts netting players and picks we didn't see and he has been the club spokeman.
 I wish he had spoken earlier.
Leaving it to a first year coach and captain to publicly voice their opinion and an assistant coach who talks too much to anyone who will listen is unprofessional and amateurish. It never happened under the watch of Roos and this is Goodwin's first draft in charge. Let us call it a learning opportunity for him

I have spoken to other recently retired AFL footballers who were asked to move on with time on their contract. Some chose to leave, others stuck to their contract and played a year in the 2's and nother was offered a payout of a reduced sum. It reflects badly on a club when they will not honour a contract and want to move someone on. It sends a bad message to everyone on how the club is run and I am not happy that MFC has handled this one. At least mahoney has offered some clarity as a team manager should

On the other hand what course of action does a club have when a player gets a new contract and settles into a comfort zone, loses form or just slackens off? For example Cloke got his 4 years and in year 3 his performance dropped off so much he got dropped and by uears end he decided to move. Jack may well find next season he is not in the best 22 and go to the club and want out but they gave hime a 3 year deal and he is well entitled to expect MFC to honour it. If that contract doesn't contain performance clauses etc the more fool MFC for the way the contract was written and what changed from 12 monthd ago when the club negotiated a new 3 year deal? 

51 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Perception vs reality is a funny thing. In what works is Watts A-grade? It takes FAR more than being able to kick a ball to be considered an A-grade PROFESSIONAL footballer.

Jack should be A Grade.....

and the club has had enough. 

13 minutes ago, Older demon said:

 If that contract doesn't contain performance clauses etc the more fool MFC for the way the contract was written and what changed from 12 monthd ago when the club negotiated a new 3 year deal? 

Except that the club probably needed Jack more when he signed the contract than they do now.

Jesse, Weid, TMac, Pedo for a year or two more and Gawn resting, plus Jack Watts, is too many talls for the forward line, especially when you add Trac ,VDB and Hannan who are all around the 188cm  mark. 

15 minutes ago, Older demon said:

I was so pleased that Mahoney spoke this morning representing the club. His message I heard was clear to Jack and that is "Pull up your socks as your attitude in the first year of your new contract does not meet expectations".

Mahoney has been fantastic. There have been no leaks, surprise late action in drafts netting players and picks we didn't see and he has been the club spokeman.
 I wish he had spoken earlier.
Leaving it to a first year coach and captain to publicly voice their opinion and an assistant coach who talks too much to anyone who will listen is unprofessional and amateurish. It never happened under the watch of Roos and this is Goodwin's first draft in charge. Let us call it a learning opportunity for him

I have spoken to other recently retired AFL footballers who were asked to move on with time on their contract. Some chose to leave, others stuck to their contract and played a year in the 2's and nother was offered a payout of a reduced sum. It reflects badly on a club when they will not honour a contract and want to move someone on. It sends a bad message to everyone on how the club is run and I am not happy that MFC has handled this one. At least mahoney has offered some clarity as a team manager should

On the other hand what course of action does a club have when a player gets a new contract and settles into a comfort zone, loses form or just slackens off? For example Cloke got his 4 years and in year 3 his performance dropped off so much he got dropped and by uears end he decided to move. Jack may well find next season he is not in the best 22 and go to the club and want out but they gave hime a 3 year deal and he is well entitled to expect MFC to honour it. If that contract doesn't contain performance clauses etc the more fool MFC for the way the contract was written and what changed from 12 monthd ago when the club negotiated a new 3 year deal? 

Mahoney spoke really well this morning. 

The Club want to keep Jack, BUT not with his present attitude. 

It is up to him 100%

Jack Watts is the 'fall guy' at the footy club. What about the indiscretions of Vince, Bugg and Lewis last year. Jesse can be excused as he was under immense personal pressure. Vince, Bugg and Lewis more than anyone else cost us a place in the finals. Watts, no doubt, is a divisive figure amongst supporters but over two thirds of Demonlanders want him to stay and there have been many upset Demon fans on the radio. At training, Watts is great amongst the kids - they flock to him and he chats and spends more time with them than any other player. 

That said, he has to play better, for longer periods and more consistently, but he is nowhere near the worst player on our list. I want him to stay and have let the Club know this. As a supporter for 65 years I have seen these type of decisions on popular players made before and we more often than not get it wrong. Lastly, this situation has been handled very badly by the Club into the public arena. If I were a Board member, I would be far from satisfied.

55 minutes ago, Stretch Johnson said:

Anyone thinking that this is a management faux pas needs to read the above fully. 

This is not about the standards of Jack Watts in isolation, it's about setting the standards of the the club as a whole and not with words but in concrete 

There has been a faux pas because they've let it GET to this. That's poor management right there. Good management on the other hand would be that none of us would be having this discussion because it all would have been sorted behind closed doors.

You just don;t launder in public

Vince, Bugg and Lewis have no value, and the two senior citizens bring more to the side than Watts does

Watts is being offered up because he has value 

Just now, beelzebub said:

There has been a faux pas because they've let it GET to this. That's poor management right there. Good management on the other hand would be that none of us would be having this discussion because it all would have been sorted behind closed doors.

You just don;t launder in public

BB we both know that had all this been done in secret there would be many a rumbling about the lack of information and transparency coming from the club. 

 

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

the club has all the info on his work rate and intensity. They know what they are doing with this wake up call.

Agree, though i don't think it was designed as a wake up call. I think they expected  him to seek a trade, which he may still do.

As i have said before, despite the fact that as you say he has under performed, Jack is one of my all favourite players. But i fully respect Goodwin's position (and his right to ask Watts to leave) and it is crystal clear he has failed in meeting his coaches expectations - the key ones being intensity and attack at the ball i would think.

All that said i am glad Jack has stuck to his guns and i hope it actually will be the wake up call he needs. To be honest i can't see him getting to level of intensity Goody demands so if he does stay he better get used to being wacked in the VFL and playing at windy casey. But if he can be the rare leopard that changes his spots i hope it is with us not another premiership contender. 

4 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

There has been a faux pas because they've let it GET to this. That's poor management right there. Good management on the other hand would be that none of us would be having this discussion because it all would have been sorted behind closed doors.

You just don;t launder in public

Agreed. However, we are where we are (how many times do Dees supporters have to say things like this?), and Mahoney's comments today make a bad situation better, IMHO.

Jack has great mental toughness in goal kicking and general field kicking where other players go to water under the pressure and I've stood up for him on this.  But the problem is in GFs like the last 2 he just wont get his hands on it to execute those great skills.

quote  had options the last four or five years and that love for the club and the boys has kept me there and that hasn’t changed.”

if he is forced out it will rip the club apart.  Anyone hear sen this morning with supporters ringing in.  Jack could have left for more money years ago.  he showed loyalty...  now we owe to him to honor his contract.   Give him a boot up the bum for a good pre season yes.. has to earn spot next year YES     but keep him.       The boy got talent 

4 minutes ago, gregdemon said:

quote  had options the last four or five years and that love for the club and the boys has kept me there and that hasn’t changed.”

if he is forced out it will rip the club apart.  Anyone hear sen this morning with supporters ringing in.  Jack could have left for more money years ago.  he showed loyalty...  now we owe to him to honor his contract.   Give him a boot up the bum for a good pre season yes.. has to earn spot next year YES     but keep him.       The boy got talent 

And here lies the problem. You think he's  boy and he probably thinks he's a boy. He's been in the system 9 years and the excuses are wearing thin. In the modern game, his weaknesses outweigh his strengths, and that's not factoring in his apparent lack of professionalism.

You have to say that what you see is what you get with Jack. In some ways its probably what has made him a popular bloke with teammates and fans. As a person he wears his heart on his sleeve, is loyal and has good values. He's not one to string people along with smoke screen statements and probably wouldn't dream of hurting the club. Of course he could always come out tomorrow and decide he wants to be traded but I've just noticed this as he's probably one of the most honest people in the game. Would have a terrible poker face.

22 minutes ago, Stretch Johnson said:

BB we both know that had all this been done in secret there would be many a rumbling about the lack of information and transparency coming from the club. 

 

well... about what though? Had  they come to sensible terms ...whichever/whatever  amicably we'd have had a united front type story etc. 

here its amateur hour adversarial type rubbish. All totally unnecessary in my book.