3 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Whilst I agree with this, you can only take those individuals so far.  Maybe Goodwin believes he has gotten as far as he can with Jack, and if he is still not meeting the expectations the club has set in place after 9 years in the system, then they may need to set an example in this situation by moving him on.  A behaviour ignored is a behaviour condoned, and if we continue to allow Jack to not commit himself fully to the club (as has been discussed) then we need to make a clean break.

I don't see how the 9yr thing makes a difference? He was 8 years last year and they gave him a three year contract. Surely the expectations should only be how he is serving his current contract rather than how he served previous ones?

 

McCartney was at a footy lunch today talking to a Demon tragic, Jack gone.

An independent source tells me that the Coach (Goodwin) wants Jack out.

Jacks manager thinks Jack would be better off elsewhere if 2 coaches no longer have a place for him.

Unless something dramati changes Jack will seek greener pastures, not sure why McCartney and Goodwin are so adamant after renewing hsi contract last year.

4 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

I don't see how the 9yr thing makes a difference? He was 8 years last year and they gave him a three year contract. Surely the expectations should only be how he is serving his current contract rather than how he served previous ones?

 

Why shouldn't it?  It looked like he might be turning a corner, again, so he got a new contract and in some respects went back to the way he was.  If anything the expectations for him are greater than those who haven't been in the system as long.  He shouldn't be making these mistakes.

Just now, Wiseblood said:

Why shouldn't it?  It looked like he might be turning a corner, again, so he got a new contract and in some respects went back to the way he was.  If anything the expectations for him are greater than those who haven't been in the system as long.  He shouldn't be making these mistakes.

Back to old ways? The 2016 JW was still there for 2017 until his hamstring injury. I'd still rate his 2017 season over his 2015, 2014, 2013, etc etc. 

3 minutes ago, Older demon said:

McCartney was at a footy lunch today talking to a Demon tragic, Jack gone.

An independent source tells me that the Coach (Goodwin) wants Jack out.

Jacks manager thinks Jack would be better off elsewhere if 2 coaches no longer have a place for him.

Unless something dramati changes Jack will seek greener pastures, not sure why McCartney and Goodwin are so adamant after renewing hsi contract last year.

Cant blame him . Simon McCantwin are beginning to worry me.

Just now, At the break of Gawn said:

Back to old ways? The 2016 JW was still there for 2017 until his hamstring injury. I'd still rate his 2017 season over his 2015, 2014, 2013, etc etc. 

Or the totally unprofessional way he turned up to pre-season training?  

The reason I talk about 9 years is that this has been going on for a while.  He'll play some good games, then play some shockers and get dropped.  As someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, Bailey, Neeld, Roos and Goodwin have all dropped him in their time as senior coaches.  This is not a new thing and it's not good enough for someone who has been at the club 9 years.

6 minutes ago, Older demon said:

McCartney was at a footy lunch today talking to a Demon tragic, Jack gone.

An independent source tells me that the Coach (Goodwin) wants Jack out.

Jacks manager thinks Jack would be better off elsewhere if 2 coaches no longer have a place for him.

Unless something dramati changes Jack will seek greener pastures, not sure why McCartney and Goodwin are so adamant after renewing hsi contract last year.

He is a distraction/bad influence.

3 hours ago, Demon77 said:

Is this another Bugg instagram?

No

Dismiss Brad Green

Dismiss James McDonald 

Trade Jack Watts

for fu(&&(k sake

mfc is a footy club that likes to rip out loyal clubmen. Wattsy loves the footy club.  Why trade him??

now singalong... Dumb Ways to Die, so many dumb ways to die !!!!

Edited September 29, 20177 yr by spirit of norm smith
X

53 minutes ago, Dee tention said:

He is a distraction/bad influence.

What absolute crap

53 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Dismiss Brad Green

Dismiss James McDonald 

Trade Jack Watts

for fu(&&(k sake

mfc is a footy club that likes to rip out loyal clubmen. Wattsy loves the footy club.  Why trade him??

now singalong... Dumb Ways to Die, so many dumb ways to die !!!!

Do you work.for.metro?

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

Or the totally unprofessional way he turned up to pre-season training?  

The reason I talk about 9 years is that this has been going on for a while.  He'll play some good games, then play some shockers and get dropped.  As someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, Bailey, Neeld, Roos and Goodwin have all dropped him in their time as senior coaches.  This is not a new thing and it's not good enough for someone who has been at the club 9 years.

Agree.

At some point (if he continues) he will go from potential to pretender

He is not dissimilar to Colin Sylvia from a football perspective

Both had super talent and were high draft picks

Both promised a lot

Both seemed to have good patches leading up to new contract negotiations

Both didn't put in the hard yards to get the most out of their careers

I trust Goodwin on this (moreso than anyone who's  been involved in the MFC for a long time). Here's a guy who's  been involved in succesful football clubs. He knows what it takes to win. He would have seen, like the rest of us, that JW has a nice ability to hit the scoreboard (which is very important for us because we haven't  scored freely for many years). He would know that JW has been a nice servant of the football club and by all accounts is a great bloke. He would also be as aware as anybody else in the industry that the MFC is still not a respected footall club, and like it or not it is because when push comes to shove our playing group still doesn't seem to have the desire to do the shoving.

All I've ever wanted from the MFC is to know I'm going to get 100% effort from the players 100% of the time. I still don't feel we are nearly there and if this move helps us close that gap then bring it on.

I reckon we sit about equal with GWS at the moment in terms of willingness for a fight. Goodwin wants to change this and i for one believe in what he's trying to do.

I've swayed back and forth on this but have landed on keeping him.

Sure, his last few games after returning from injury were the Watts of old, but given his 2016 season and the start to this year, that is enough of a body of evidence to suggest it was not insignificantly related to recovery from injury.

If a trade did go ahead it would want to be a very good deal. After all the years of development and Roos' resurrection of his career, trading him for pick 29 or thereabouts doesn't sit well. At 26 he is hitting his peak years. Port fans on BF are doing cartwheels at the prospect of getting him.

Ultimately the potential for this to backfire is just too great. In the fairly unlikely scenario that he stunk it up in 2018 and his value plummeted, I could live with that moreso than watching him tear it up on QB wearing black and white..

I trust Roos' judgement. If he believes it would be a mistake, as he has stated publicly, that further cements my view.

Fingers crossed. Whatever the outcome.

@rufus just a curious question.

You trust Goodwin more than Roos ? Paul also knows what success looks like, even coached for a cup.

It's an interesting conundrum no ?

...the humanity......think of the children.....who will they blame ? 

I think we all know he has the ability and skills. The frustrating part is the level of out put for 4 quarters. Goal tally and tackling pressure should be much higher.

In the past he's out put level may have been considered reasonable for Melbourne in comparison to the rest of the team.

But there is a new game in town with Goodwin requires a far greater effort and Jack is still operating at the same speed.

Maybe the club has simply come to the conclusion that on this basis he's not going to assist with the push for a higher ladder spot and they have considered there are better options for the team.

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, rufus said:

I trust Goodwin on this (moreso than anyone who's  been involved in the MFC for a long time). Here's a guy who's  been involved in succesful football clubs. He knows what it takes to win. He would have seen, like the rest of us, that JW has a nice ability to hit the scoreboard (which is very important for us because we haven't  scored freely for many years). He would know that JW has been a nice servant of the football club and by all accounts is a great bloke. He would also be as aware as anybody else in the industry that the MFC is still not a respected footall club, and like it or not it is because when push comes to shove our playing group still doesn't seem to have the desire to do the shoving.

All I've ever wanted from the MFC is to know I'm going to get 100% effort from the players 100% of the time. I still don't feel we are nearly there and if this move helps us close that gap then bring it on.

I reckon we sit about equal with GWS at the moment in terms of willingness for a fight. Goodwin wants to change this and i for one believe in what he's trying to do.

Pretty much sums up my thought also, in particular the bolded part.

We had a chance to finally break that mould in the final round, and rolled over like the Dees of old. 

.

 

You can have all the talent in the world which is great, but if you're not going to buy into the new culture then [censored] off. No matter how good you are. We are trying to build a "bloods" like culture here to get us out of this rot of years gone by. If people sit back and think about it, Jack Watts doesn't or never will bring that buy in. Sad, because he's a nice guy but we need to move forward and cop it on the chin. I wish him all the best. Someone else will kick the goals and Goodwin will work out a plan. Harmes, Hannan have shown more and ANB.

After Roos left I'd bet he thought the heat was off and he could just go back into cruise control, rocked up unfit and below standards plus I also bet he didn't prepare properly with his hamstring, hence taking so long to recover. 

Unfortunately Jack will end his career and wish he'd given more. He's had 9 years and still has the same issues. Time to let go of the fan boy.

1 minute ago, Dockett 32 said:

I think we all know he has the ability and skills. The frustrating part is the level of out put for 4 quarters. Goal tally and tackling pressure should be much higher.

In the past he's out put level may have been considered reasonable for Melbourne in comparison to the rest of the team.

But there is a new game in town with Goodwin requires a far greater effort and Jack is still operating at the same speed.

Maybe the club has simply come to the conclusion that on this basis he's not going to assist with the push for a higher ladder spot and they have considered there are better options for the team.

 

 

 

And still putting one or even zero hands up in a contested marking situation. 

People who do that, don't play well in finals.

I will back Goodwin

38 minutes ago, SFebey said:

 I also bet he didn't prepare properly with his hamstring, hence taking so long to recover. 

 

That's what I think too

Just an observation for those that espouse that Jack's body of games would indicate that he wouldn't stand up in finals. There would be a handful of games in the last 2-3 seasons where Jack has demonstrated his ability to run both ways and take key marks in defence to save games. He knows how to win, one of the few who wears red and blue who has shown this.

11 minutes ago, Demon Premonition said:

Just an observation for those that espouse that Jack's body of games would indicate that he wouldn't stand up in finals. There would be a handful of games in the last 2-3 seasons where Jack has demonstrated his ability to run both ways and take key marks in defence to save games. He knows how to win, one of the few who wears red and blue who has shown this.

Will all depend on what we get in return, simple for me!

My take is this - I have a soft spot for any bloke who gets scrutinised within an inch of his life because of a choice he didn't make (pick no 1)  - part of me is sad that he may not be a one team player. It does feel though that he will leave - and he may play his best in his prime in another team - some may argue that he should/must do that with 'us - this is simply a case of that the environment and time has passed for Jack to do it at Melbourne - he may not do it elsewhere - and he may - all the best to him either way. 

I think supporters who would give their left [censored] (and think its 'that simple')  forget that the players who although may be genetically gifted - do not necessarily give their left [censored] to play and earn a living in this environment and may not actively pursue getting the best out of themselves all the time- not because they are selfish, but because they can't. Anyone thinking he should pull his finger out or that he has been given so many changes - should thoroughly examine their own life and assess those situations where they have failed to meet external criteria or expectation. 

 

* can't believe that anatomically correct term for plums has been redacted.

Edited September 29, 20177 yr by Danelska

It’s highly amusing that there are supporters on here who believe and expect that after 9 years, Watts still needs to be spoon fed. 

As supporters we’re only able to see and hear snippets of how hard players are willing to work to get the best out of themselves. I’ve never once heard anything positive about Watts’ professionalism or work ethic on the track, unless that’s been on the back of sub-par performances in that area.

And considering we have a really young and highly impressionable core group, I can similarly see the risks involved in keeping a 9 year player who prefers social events to being an elite AFL footballer.

Watts has lacked and still lacks one of the most important attributes to play at the level. ‘Urgency’. And that applies across his training, rehab, weights and game day performances.

The emotional supporters who reason that Watts should stay based on his ‘loyalty’ over the years are similarly toxic and don’t help the club in any way in that regard.

Goodwin is trying to create an elite culture and environment at this club. Which is something that will breed success in all facets. Trying to implement that sort of an environment means there’ll be some cut-throat decisions that won’t always be popular with fan-boy supporters. Goodwin understands that, he was an AFL club captain who reached the ultimate and was part of an enormously successful club. He understands better than all of us what that looks like.

Sometimes I imagine what our club would look like if it were run by some supporters on here. They’d be happy to keep their fan-boy players like Sylvia, Watts, Frawley etc yet be wondering why on earth we weren’t getting any closer to winning a flag.

 

Edited September 29, 20177 yr by stevethemanjordan