8 hours ago, fndee said:

Out of interest GV is there a point where the return on JW isn’t worth it? Pick 30, 40, 50?

It has become obvious that Goodwin and the FD don't want him back.  I think we'll get around 30 for him, but importantly they want him out the door.

Poignantly, Viney didn't refer to him in his speech and Viney trained with Lever over the weekend.  The bulk of the players respect Goody and want to be a part of what he's building.  Jack was a leg weight.

I like Jack, and hope he somehow stays, but that seems very unlikely. 

However he was told at the start of the year that he must meet certain conditions... and he didn't.

He was told again mid year... and he didn't.

Then he gets told to look elsewhere and is shocked.

Yes the media play out is ugly, but, sheeeit, what do you do? Do we want Clarry or Trac to ever think that coasting is OK. We aren't (or at least shouldn't be) the boys club of the 2000's. That was a dead end street. Put in or [censored] off. It's that simple.

3 minutes ago, ProDee said:

It has become obvious that Goodwin and the FD don't want him back.  I think we'll get around 30 for him, but importantly they want him out the door.

Poignantly, Viney didn't refer to him in his speech and Viney trained with Lever over the weekend.  The bulk of the players respect Goody and want to be a part of what he's building.  Jack was a leg weight.

On a lighter note Jack also forgot to mention or thank his girlfriend at the B&F. He is most apologetic to her on Instagram

Did I see someone refer to Watts as potentially being one of the all time greats?

That's probably the most unhinged comment I've seen in this thread.  He's shown himself to be nothing of the sort.  

AS earlier stated Connors his manager has come out and blasted the club. After initially saying the process was ok clearly something has changed and Connors has been highly critical of the way the club has managed it. We all have seen how Connors looks after his boys and he is the one who has helped Jack get his head around the idea that Melbourne don't want him. Jack will trust his manager to do right by him.

If, initially it was a strategy to give Jack a fright it certainly hasn't panned out that way and my suspision is that Jack's departure was always the agenda (based on Brendan Mccartney's comments at a lunch the day before the G.F.) Personally I don't like it myself but I am not making the decisions at MFC and one only has to look at the collateral damage on this thread to see how badly it has polarised the supporters. I also have my concerns about Goody, and his B&F speech left me cold (actually thought it was Mark Neeld again) but Roos is a hard act to follow.

I believe Jack will move on and wish him all the best in the future

10 minutes ago, Older demon said:

AS earlier stated Connors his manager has come out and blasted the club. After initially saying the process was ok clearly something has changed and Connors has been highly critical of the way the club has managed it. We all have seen how Connors looks after his boys and he is the one who has helped Jack get his head around the idea that Melbourne don't want him. Jack will trust his manager to do right by him.

If, initially it was a strategy to give Jack a fright it certainly hasn't panned out that way and my suspision is that Jack's departure was always the agenda (based on Brendan Mccartney's comments at a lunch the day before the G.F.) Personally I don't like it myself but I am not making the decisions at MFC and one only has to look at the collateral damage on this thread to see how badly it has polarised the supporters. I also have my concerns about Goody, and his B&F speech left me cold (actually thought it was Mark Neeld again) but Roos is a hard act to follow.

I believe Jack will move on and wish him all the best in the future

Where has he done this?  I want specific proof where he said 'Melbourne have treated Jack poorly' or something of that ilk.

All I've seen him say is that we've handled the situation very well and that he couldn't fault us.  

9 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Did I see someone refer to Watts as potentially being one of the all time greats?

That's probably the most unhinged comment I've seen in this thread.  He's shown himself to be nothing of the sort.  

Are you now judging him on that nonsensical standard?

You are obviously not, but can we stop reacting to the most ridiculous aspects of the arguments on here?

This conversation is being dominated by the extremes because of that reaction. The vast majority on here wish it ended differently, wish him all the best, wish we get some value for him and wishes it will be over soon.

12 minutes ago, Older demon said:

AS earlier stated Connors his manager has come out and blasted the club. After initially saying the process was ok clearly something has changed and Connors has been highly critical of the way the club has managed it. We all have seen how Connors looks after his boys and he is the one who has helped Jack get his head around the idea that Melbourne don't want him. Jack will trust his manager to do right by him.

If, initially it was a strategy to give Jack a fright it certainly hasn't panned out that way and my suspision is that Jack's departure was always the agenda (based on Brendan Mccartney's comments at a lunch the day before the G.F.) Personally I don't like it myself but I am not making the decisions at MFC and one only has to look at the collateral damage on this thread to see how badly it has polarised the supporters. I also have my concerns about Goody, and his B&F speech left me cold (actually thought it was Mark Neeld again) but Roos is a hard act to follow.

I believe Jack will move on and wish him all the best in the future

I might need to re listen to his interview but i think Connors comments were around clubs offering up players and then saying we'll only trade for x.

Ie stringer and watts who are both managaes by Paul.

 

3 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Are you now judging him on that nonsensical standard?

You are obviously not, but can we stop reacting to the most ridiculous aspects of the arguments on here?

This conversation is being dominated by the extremes because of that reaction. The vast majority on here wish it ended differently, wish him all the best, wish we get some value for him and wishes it will be over soon.

And I'm one of that 'vast majority', rpfc.  I'd rather have him than not, but it aggrieves me that he is now being placed on some sort of pedestal when the facts are obviously different.

But I take your point all the same.

It's interesting to look at Goodwins football life and reflect on why he has taken this step.

Short,small,late developer, with little or no chance of being selected at AFL level at 17.

Watts was tall athletic ,skilled and starred for Vic Metro-had a huge spotlight shone upon him.

Watts makes friends easily and has a beaming smile.Has made plenty of mistakes and gets made to pay for them.

Goodwin was involved at Essendon during the drugs saga, had a severe gambling addiction and faced the abyss before Roos picked both men up and re-ignited them.

Roos is a superior spiritual being and I hope /wish he would call them both and put this thing in it's proper perspective .

There is some short mans syndrome evident in Goodwins actions.

There is a millionaire attitude to Watts ,perhaps because he has never had to fight as hard as Goodwin did for his career.

I will view it as a failure by Goodwin if Watts leaves.I can think only of the roar of the crowd next year if when Watts DOES crunch tackles of take pack marks, or make desperate saves in defence.

I'm still hoping it's with us. Forlorn as the hope might seem.

 

Just read the article with Connors berating Melbourne and Footscray. Without getting into the ins and outs of specific deals isn't this the logical outcome of the situation where players, in contract, nominate another club they want to be traded to? I think it may have led to the clubs taking the position they expect to be able to control some trades as well.  Seems that the clubs are not content to live in the one way street anymore. 

43 minutes ago, --coach-- said:

2 girls (4 and 2), oldest kicks on both legs at least 5m and youngest loves to hold the ball and run away. I’ll package them both up in a deal for daisy?

Hmm, twin girls (2 and a half). One left foot, one right, both mobile talls with reasonable forward pressure/tackling, able to move into defence and short spells in the ruck. I'll throw in Upsy Daisy as a sweetener but will need a 2nd round or Makka Pakka back.

16 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Where has he done this?  I want specific proof where he said 'Melbourne have treated Jack poorly' or something of that ilk.

All I've seen him say is that we've handled the situation very well and that he couldn't fault us.  

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-trade-period-day-three-follow-all-the-big-trade-news-and-whispers-october-11-2017/news-story/9e3c9532931e3f53de1e23d8304dbe46

27 minutes ago, Older demon said:

AS earlier stated Connors his manager has come out and blasted the club. After initially saying the process was ok clearly something has changed and Connors has been highly critical of the way the club has managed it. We all have seen how Connors looks after his boys and he is the one who has helped Jack get his head around the idea that Melbourne don't want him. Jack will trust his manager to do right by him.

It's patent nonsense Connors has "blasted" the club.  I look forward to your quotes.

It surprises me that so many older Demon posters, who've been starved of success want to keep this leg weight.

2 minutes ago, binman said:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-trade-period-day-three-follow-all-the-big-trade-news-and-whispers-october-11-2017/news-story/9e3c9532931e3f53de1e23d8304dbe46

You're not expecting me to trawl through that news looking for the quote are you, binman?  I wish I had the time, but I don't.

I think the most important thing in trading Watts is not what pick we get for him but that his full $500k+ two year remains are picked up by whichever club gets him

Just now, Wiseblood said:

You're not expecting me to trawl through that news looking for the quote are you, binman?  I wish I had the time, but I don't.

No just go to this page and read the first headline and accopying texr (or tge full back page of the hard copy)

 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au

40 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Where has he done this?  I want specific proof where he said 'Melbourne have treated Jack poorly' or something of that ilk.

All I've seen him say is that we've handled the situation very well and that he couldn't fault us.  

Todays AGE http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dogs-demons-want-it-both-ways-on-jake-stringer-and-jack-watts-says-their-manager-20171010-gyy4b6.html

"Dogs, Demons want it both ways on Jake Stringer and Jack Watts, says their manager"

"I've been in this game a long time and I just think, next time this happens to us, we'll ask a few more hard questions ourselves," Connors said.

"Before we make this all public, well let's get on the same page with what pick.

"It's one of the things I will be doing a bit differently with Robbie [D'Orazio from Connors Sports], that we will be asking more questions when we get called to meetings like this in the future.

"It's a total backflip, for mine. He's contracted, so there's an option. But again, it's really hard to go back to an organisation where he's probably not welcome."

Despite Melbourne making similar comments about Watts potentially staying, Connors confirmed that Watts had only recently decided that he would be better off leaving.

"It's no good being at an organisation if they don't want you," Connors said.

"Yeah I think he is [up for leaving the state] … he might have to be."

So Jack goes to Collingwood and is told 

Yeh we always thought you were soft. That's why we targeted you so remorselely on your debut. You are really going to have to us up with our own fans spitting on you if you don't win every game they are more feral The the Melb softxxxk supporters 

So off to Adelaide

 Yeah we would really welcome you into the club partivularly because your from Victoria. Ask Jake how we treat would treat you.

Geelong where Danger says love your skills but we're looking to buy a few others and Melb have really talked you down so we'll take you cheap and you'll be treated the same way here.

Back to Melb Jack says ok coach I'm ok to go, ok boys we all want the success of a flag, let's ignore the Neeld years, the rebuild, and last years failure, this is the beginning , let's all work our butts off every match all season. Jack appointed to leadership team and teammates work towards achieving his numbers while he works towards establishing some new ones. They all push each other to join ogether to use the skills of individuals to achieve joint success.

Oh just woke up

16 hours ago, mo64 said:

Roos gets away with shooting his mouth off without anybody questioning him. I'd take him to task on the above points.

 - His progress in the latter of his past 2 years resulted in a 21st placed finish in the B&F. But obviously Roos knows better than those that he left in charge.

- If Watts isn't an elite endurance player, then what is his role in the team? He's not a KPF. He's hasn't got explosive pace like Garlett. Without elite endurance or pace, you don't survive as an outside player. And Watts needs to take responsibility for his own recovery from injury instead of jetting off to Byron Bay, which Roos conveniently left out.

- I can't think of 1 game where Watts has won it off his own boot, let alone 6-8. He may have made a significant contribution, but that's different to being a matchwinner.

Roos is full of sh#t.

The guy legitimately saved this club. His words count.

Terrible post.

 

24 minutes ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

Hmm, twin girls (2 and a half). One left foot, one right, both mobile talls with reasonable forward pressure/tackling, able to move into defence and short spells in the ruck. I'll throw in Upsy Daisy as a sweetener but will need a 2nd round or Makka Pakka back.

MAKKA PAKKA!!! No way, he is a required player and we won’t be trading him. Would Kung foo panda suffice? he’s a club favorite and all the youngsters look up to him?

MODS: this conversation may need to be moved to the trade rumors thread?

38 minutes ago, Robbie57 said:

Just read the article with Connors berating Melbourne and Footscray. Without getting into the ins and outs of specific deals isn't this the logical outcome of the situation where players, in contract, nominate another club they want to be traded to? I think it may have led to the clubs taking the position they expect to be able to control some trades as well.  Seems that the clubs are not content to live in the one way street anymore. 

I agree if they are offering 29 or 33, that's the market value in the circumstances, but if they are offering 49 or 51 they are taking the [censored].

3 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

The guy legitimately saved this club. His words count.

Terrible post.

 

BS. He was talked into the job by PJ, and offered a fortune to take it. The reason why PJ was keen to get him was because Roos would not get the same media or public scrutiny as a first time coach if the club had poor results. Through the poor results, we were gifted high draft picks to acquire young talent, which is Jason Taylor's role. We already had Hogan and Viney from Neeld's time.

And during his time, Roos was never able to lure a big name to the club. Hibberd, Melksham and Vince came to the club through Goodwin's connection, and Lewis through Viney. You could say Garlett, but he was on the scrapheap at Carlton. So the core of the list is primarily the remnants of Neeld, the acquisitions by Goodwin/Viney, and the recruiting by Taylor.

The easiest coaching job in the world is one where you nominate your ending date, and leave before the job is finished. Then he has the nerve to be critical of the club, and especially Goodwin, who he annointed. By your reasoning, if Goodwin is a failure, then so is Roos.

5 hours ago, Deeprived Childhood said:

One thing that i'd like to see if JW stays, is him being told he is not going to play as a deep forward or high half forward anymore, but play on the ball as an outside mid, or on the wing. Just build up the tank over summer and turn yourself into a player that expends every ounce of gruelling effort to become some kind of distributing outside mid. If he gets it on the edge of a pack from Gawn/Oliver > Viney > JW, then we know he can be damaging and can become a player that provides the perfect link up disposal to a CHF Hogan or TMAC deep.  

Is it too late to reimagine his role in the team if he stays?

This would be amazing if he could apply himself to that level. Who knows if he can, or will have the chance.

If the MFC were definitively cutting him from the outset, it was a strange way to go about it.

Listening to that audio grab from the B&F. He has absolutely come to terms with moving on. It's happeneing, its jus a matter of where.