11 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Don't agree at all. Are the 3 players who nominated ESS the players we want? Probably not so we wouldn't have spoken to their managers, they may want more money that we want to pay, we may have other options for the position they play... there will be multiple reasons why to say players don't want to come to us is not true when you look at Lever, and there will be more conversations going on.

Stringer- We all know. 

Smith- Failed a medical and has knee issues. 

Saad- Big bucks offer and shocking disposal. Suns seeking first round pick.

Edited October 7, 20177 yr by Redleg

8 minutes ago, Redleg said:

It would surprise me.

Me too.

Sense its all beyond that point. (Probably has been for some tiime...just that Jack hadn't got the memo yet )

The emotion for and against is largely because the career of Jack Watts has been so closely associated (you could almost say intertwined) with what has undoubtedly been been the darkest period in the long history of the MFC. One the oldest sporting clubs in the world let alone Australia. And that's why it would be such a shame to shut him, and the club, out from the opportunity of some sort of redemption, just when that redemption seems so close. Do people not see that?

15 minutes ago, London Demon said:

The emotion for and against is largely because the career of Jack Watts has been so closely associated (you could almost say intertwined) with what has undoubtedly been been the darkest period in the long history of the MFC. One the oldest sporting clubs in the world let alone Australia. And that's why it would be such a shame to shut him, and the club, out from the opportunity of some sort of redemption, just when that redemption seems so close. Do people not see that?

Well put LD-precisely.

22 minutes ago, London Demon said:

The emotion for and against is largely because the career of Jack Watts has been so closely associated (you could almost say intertwined) with what has undoubtedly been been the darkest period in the long history of the MFC. One the oldest sporting clubs in the world let alone Australia. And that's why it would be such a shame to shut him, and the club, out from the opportunity of some sort of redemption, just when that redemption seems so close. Do people not see that?

A shame yes, But romantacism should never ever take priority in list management decisions. It was two years back that we didnt give a farewell game to Jamar because he wasnt ever best 22 that year, have to make tough calls for the greater good going forward.

Edited October 7, 20177 yr by Deeprived Childhood

Not enough has been written on this.

We need a compendium of Wattsisms.

I propose a working title of Watts The F.,K!

1 minute ago, Biffen said:

Not enough has been written on this.

We need a compendium of Wattsisms.

I propose a working title of Watts The F.,K!

I'll wait for the movie  ?

Well that was shameful too. We can  stop doing things like that. Keeping Watts is for the greater good. The MFC created the whole Jack Watts messiah fiasco and loaded it onto the shoulders of a school boy, and now wants to throw him out, just when he and the club are finally facing in the right direction. Because of, what? 2 or 3 average to poor games late in the season, after an injury?? Give me a break! To quote a certain ex-MFC coach, who knew more than most about this club and its heart and history,  Jack Watts IS Melbourne. We created him as a footballer, for good or for ill, we should stick with him, so that he and we  can redeem what has happened over the last 10 years. He is now 26, the next 2 or 3 years are his prime.  If he goes elsewhere I'm certain  he will do well. Are we going to have to endure him doing well at Sydney , Geelong ( for that a--------e Scott!) or (even worse!!) the Pies?? That would be terrible. I personally could not bear it. And  It would hurt us.

Why would he be a making a speech at the B&F.?

"Its a great honour to be standing here today, I have too many people to thunk after finishing 29th in the Bluey, to reward you all I have decided to hang around and collect another two years salary".

Standing ovation, "we love you Jacko, thanks for taking us down the road to loserville".

If anyone wants to take a time out from this thread I suggest two options.

1 - I salute Jack Watts thread.

2 - Jack Watts (again) thread.

I ventured there a short time ago and strangely found myself back here to make sense of it all.

Edited October 7, 20177 yr by Demon77

4 minutes ago, bluey said:

Why would he be a making a speech at the B&F.?

"Its a great honour to be standing here today, I have too many people to thunk after finishing 29th in the Bluey, to reward you all I have decided to hang around and collect another two years salary".

Standing ovation, "we love you Jacko, thanks for taking us down the road to loserville".

Classy.

5 minutes ago, bluey said:

Why would he be a making a speech at the B&F.?

"Its a great honour to be standing here today, I have too many people to thunk after finishing 29th in the Bluey, to reward you all I have decided to hang around and collect another two years salary".

Standing ovation, "we love you Jacko, thanks for taking us down the road to loserville".

Maybe as he wins ‘most loved and must never be traded’ award?  Apparently, everyone loves him so much that the team will implode, Hoges will be off and everyone will wear black armbands for a year.

or maybe he will win ‘most diligent preparer’ award?

I'm amused by the amateur psycologists on here telling us about how hard it is to let go of emotional investments.  Seems to me those who have potted Watts for years also have an emotional investment in seeing him booted out. I shudder to think how they will react in the unlikely event he stays.

10 hours ago, bing181 said:

“You can’t tell the quality of the decision you are making by the outcome that will be produced. Or, to put it another way, you can’t tell by the outcome whether you made a good decision. It’s just a logical mistake to say, “I got the good outcome, I must have made a good decision.” And yet that’s what everybody thinks.”

https://hbr.org/2014/11/how-to-tell-if-youve-made-a-good-decision

Thank you for that, now I understand what you and I, presume, @Stretch Johnson were saying. You are essentially saying that whatever Watts does or however his replacement performs has no bearing on whether the decision to move Jack on was the right one. As a person who loves a semantic argument, I couldn't agree more.

However, as someone who lives in reality, I can say that you will yourselves be caught up in threads dedicated to doing what you have stipulated cannot be done - query the merits of the decision.

You better have that link ready, for the next 3/4 years? You should use Sticky Notes or OneNote - for easy access!

Just now, sue said:

I'm amused by the amateur psycologists on here telling us about how hard it is to let go of emotional investments.  Seems to me those who have potted Watts for years also have an emotional investment in seeing him booted out. I shudder to think how they will react in the unlikely event he stays.

That is definitely true. There are some so invested in Jack being 'the reason' we are where we are that they can barely admit he plays a good game. That Dr.D that Ethan dissected so well before would be one such individual. There are a few 'investing' themselves in Oscar's failure too, and now there will be more.

im  not great with technology but someone seriously has to put jacks head on leo

 

Boy this is divisive - and I find myself divided. I can understand the Clubs point of view. Jack has not made the most of his talent and his passion for the dees has not translated into action on and off the field - and I haven't heard anything from Jack to indicate he gets it and will make the required changes. 

However I have the feeling if he goes it will end up hurting us. Looks like a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Horrible situation 

1 hour ago, Dr.D said:

im  not great with technology but someone seriously has to put jacks head on leo

 

Well ..... alright .........

 

 

Edited October 7, 20177 yr by Mazer Rackham

I see the skipper was bad mouthing his (ex) teammate again on Ch 9 news last night

Shut up, Jonesy 

 

3 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

I see the skipper was bad mouthing his (ex) teammate again on Ch 9 news last night

Shut up, Jonesy 

 

What did he say?      Is our club intent on self-destruction (again)?

9 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

I see the skipper was bad mouthing his (ex) teammate again on Ch 9 news last night

Shut up, Jonesy 

 

I back Jones in this. 

He is right there, unlike us, and would be acting and talking in alignment with the leadership group, FD, coach and club. His intention is to make us great again as a club, and to lead us to a premiership during his time at the club. I dont feel Jack is as committed to those goals as many (at the club) believe he needs to be...

Edited October 7, 20177 yr by PaulRB

6 minutes ago, sue said:

What did he say?      Is our club intent on self-destruction (again)?

The story was about him, but he got asked the inevitable Watts' question and fell for the bait..

' Whatever happens to Jack is his own doing' - paraphrasing...

I wish he would have just deflected the question

4 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

I back Jones in this. 

Of course you do

This singlemindedness will win us a premiership, with no spiritual and well being nurturing....right

Hardwick says hello, btw

1 minute ago, jumbo returns said:

The story was about him, but he got asked the inevitable Watts' question and fell for the bait..

' Whatever happens to Jack is his own doing' - paraphrasing...

I wish he would have just deflected the question

So the captain is espousing the players take personal responsibility for their performance and respect within the club..? 

Love it.

That some can interpret this as decisive shows the corrosive effect that one player not taking personal responsibility, can have on a group aspiring to elite performance. 

On 5 October 2017 at 2:01 AM, Akum said:

Watts has been gone ever since Goody told him that he wasn't wanted, probably at his end of season review. I realised that long before most others here and I'm fine with it.

But I'm concerned with what's left behind. Our coaches seem to fetishise what Watts isn't good at, while totally disregarding what he is good at, which they've never once praised him for, at least in public. We apparently have standards of intensity or whatever that doesn't tolerate anything but the highest levels.

But every player has his weaknesses. There seems a massive tolerance for some players winning contested ball and then banging it anywhere, and for some players missing easy targets and causing turnovers or holding up a chain of uncontested possessions. That wouldn't be tolerated for long at a club with high standards - imagine repeatedly missing Hodge or Selwood by 5m on a 30m pass after they'd worked really hard to lose their tag and get into space.

So while we fetishise about one aspect of footy like no other club does, we are woefully slack about other aspects of footy (which, by the way, Watts happens to be very good at). I don't care what happens to Watts now, but how about seeing standards raised across the board? Players, even team leaders, who cost us by refusing to take care with their disposal should be sanctioned just as hard as those who don't improve their intensity. 

Why do our coaches tolerate poor or careless disposal? These guys are professionals, all they do in life is get paid to get their footy right. Why do we tolerate, say, 40-something i-50s in a game for 8 goals because we can't hit targets and our f50 entries are far too predictable??

And do our coaches know how to encourage and inspire their team to greater effort, or are they only able to slam them when they do something wrong?

Wherever Watts goes in 2018, these issues will stay with us unless we consider them important enough to do something about. Rather than bleating - only in the past 24 hours, mind you, that we fell short because "Watts set such a bad example to our younger players".

Very good Akum and so, is the real issue here nothing to do with Watts In isolation.....but as you say, more about our coaching crews inability to get the best or better out of the rest when it comes to finishing, especially by foot and when delivering the ball inside 50?

And I'll give you one guess as to who our best delivery link player is hitting targets inside 50 with the money kick!  2nd overall in the AFL!

So, in one of our weakest areas of the game, where we need more players to be able to step up and provide this finish both around the ground and hitting targets i50 if we are to win more games and make finals, we give up the player who is 2nd best at it in the AFL!!!   Who's his replacement??

Has Goody (influenced heavily by a very Weideman biased Macca) lost his marbles???

Edited October 8, 20177 yr by Rusty Nails