My 3 word player analysis V Collingwood

[rolling fog 1,166]

5 hours ago, Chris said:

Tyson for some reason isn't allowed the same mistakes other mids are. 

My thoughts exactly, Chris 

[faultydet 7,593]

6 hours ago, old dee said:

IMO a major difference with JW now is he goes for those shots, a couple of years ago he would have past that off to Jones.

Now he has the confidence / arrogance to go for the shots.

the best teams have a number of players with confidence in their own ability.

Petracca has it as well. 

Had Jones and Bugg both wide open, in front of goal, but never looked sideways.

I knew he thought it was his moment.

Its what the great players do. Would love to see him do it in a final.

[daisycutter 28,728]

26 minutes ago, faultydet said:

Had Jones and Bugg both wide open, in front of goal, but never looked sideways.

I knew he thought it was his moment.

Its what the great players do. Would love to see him do it in a final.

by the time jack kicked the ball he had run about 150m from behind the back of the square, all that at about the 28min of last qtr, and he nailed it at a pretty tight angle

watch his bounce before kicking......looks totally weird .......was it a left hand bounce or watt?

[leehow 286]

32 minutes ago, faultydet said:

Had Jones and Bugg both wide open, in front of goal, but never looked sideways.

I knew he thought it was his moment.

Its what the great players do. Would love to see him do it in a final.

I can almost guarantee he saw both Jones and Bugg, his vision is incredible. Obviously thought the kick would be too risky with defenders streaming back and that it was best to go himself. 

[Sir Why You Little 35,364]

22 hours ago, faultydet said:

My favourite moment of his career.

Until it happens in finals...

When this side clicks it will be quite a ride. 

To come back into the game without a ruckman and key forward was phenominal, to hang on and win....

 

[faultydet 7,593]

54 minutes ago, leehow said:

I can almost guarantee he saw both Jones and Bugg, his vision is incredible. Obviously thought the kick would be too risky with defenders streaming back and that it was best to go himself. 

Yeah, he almost certainly would have had a glance, but it doesnt help my story, so I'm ignoring the possibility.

Christ I've watched the replay a lot. 

We need to pay homage to Hibberd. If not for his desperate spoil, Colonwood may have had a shot on goal. Match winning defence.

What a great pickup he has been.

[dieter 3,325]

1 hour ago, leehow said:

I can almost guarantee he saw both Jones and Bugg, his vision is incredible. Obviously thought the kick would be too risky with defenders streaming back and that it was best to go himself. 

Would you kick it to the Buggah after his last three weeks of kicking behinds?

[leehow 286]

18 minutes ago, dieter said:

Would you kick it to the Buggah after his last three weeks of kicking behinds?

I wouldn't have kicked it to Bugg because I don't think he was open. Jones was, but it would have been a very dangerous pass.

[Farmer 706]

On 12/06/2017 at 8:14 PM, danielE288 said:

I disgaree. His woeful kicking is a liability, not a big pressure guy either. JKH or Kent would offer more. Bernie is doing the niggle job he could possibly do.

At present he is badly needed as a high flyer on the firward line ( great mark v Adelaide, 2 near things yesterday) this makes defenders nervous. And I think he applies plenty pressure. Might be in jeopardy if we were full strength.

Having watched  all but the first 20 minutes of the replay I must say what a great game was played by Oscar. In the time I watched, no handling errors, several good intercept marks. I think he's going to be a star. Was better than Frost yesterday.

And Tyson was good over the whole game whereas the other mids were awful up until half time.

[Farmer 706]

11 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I thought Bugg was poor today. There. I've said it. And I didn't think Hannan was as good as others seem to think, either. However, I think Hannan has the right skill set. He just needs to get the experience of AFL-paced rather than VFL-paced football to become a potentially seriously good player.  

Watch it again! Simply no comparison between Bugg and Hannan this week. Bugg kicked 2 and was a constant threat despite an obvious arm injury early. I like Hannan but he wasn't good yesterday

[Demons2riseagain 36]

19 hours ago, Uncle Fester said:

 

Are they still doing that? I had some moron sitting next to me yelling that out all game one QB. I just kept saying 'Josh Fraser'

 

I thought he was going to punch me by the end of the game, but I can handle myself and I guess he saw that.

 

So sweet seeing Jack ice the cake. I hope my moron mate from long ago choked on his methadone watching that.

Yes some are... felt sorry for his kids. The constant swearing was alarming. I went to a shitty public school so no stranger to a bit of scum... but seriously. Wanted to knock the guy out. 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

10 hours ago, Farmer said:

Watch it again! Simply no comparison between Bugg and Hannan this week. Bugg kicked 2 and was a constant threat despite an obvious arm injury early. I like Hannan but he wasn't good yesterday

I suspect watching the game at the ground and watching on TV give two different experiences. The TV allows for a closer examination of skills; watching at the ground provides a better appreciation of positioning and work rate. I'm basing my comments on being at the ground without the benefit of having seen it on TV.

If Bugg can fix his kicking, he could be a good player for us. But at the moment he's a liability. I don't care how often he takes screamers, niggles the opposition or scoops up crumbs. If he's unable to execute well enough and regularly enough the basic skill of kicking properly, the value of his good work is nullified.

[beelzebub 22,762]

3 words:

Collingwood are sooks

[nutbean 8,837]

14 hours ago, Farmer said:

Watch it again! Simply no comparison between Bugg and Hannan this week. Bugg kicked 2 and was a constant threat despite an obvious arm injury early. I like Hannan but he wasn't good yesterday

I would call Hannan quiet rather than "wasn't good". The few things he did impacted the game. He made the first two goals, kicked one and should have had another and pressured all day. Add the huge hit on Dunn to the list.

Bugg competed hard all day - he is iffy by foot but earned his pay on Monday.

[nutbean 8,837]

22 hours ago, dino rover said:

Based on yesterday he wont be playing in 3 years

Contracts can be varied by agreement

Because you base playing future  on one game.

I reckon his very best is behind him as he has lost a yard but he is a very smart footballer and you would not write him off based on one bad game.

[dino rover 672]

2 hours ago, nutbean said:

Because you base playing future  on one game.

I reckon his very best is behind him as he has lost a yard but he is a very smart footballer and you would not write him off based on one bad game.

Agreed - I may have been tired and emotional but I read into what I saw in this game - half 1 vs the suns and against the Hawks which had me questioning his future.

Like many here on his signing I might have anticipated his form back a few years playing in a dominant side.

[loges 6,386]

Hannan doesn't seem to do much but inevitably bobs up with a goal or 3. One of those players who knows how to find a goal

[Redleg 38,654]

On 6/12/2017 at 7:37 PM, Chris said:

Hahahahaha, was waiting for the negative on Tyson. He was the ONLY mid making any difference at all in the first half and was very good in the second half. Yes a couple of his kicks didn't end up where hoped but they were quick kicks out of congestion. Glad to see you didn't disappoint with your bias on him!

Well it shows how people see things differently.

I thought Tyson's disposal was mostly terrible and he has been poor in that area for a while.

He has turned the ball over more than most in our side and it worries me.

[Akum 2,660]

19 hours ago, Farmer said:

At present he is badly needed as a high flyer on the firward line ( great mark v Adelaide, 2 near things yesterday) this makes defenders nervous. And I think he applies plenty pressure. Might be in jeopardy if we were full strength.

Having watched  all but the first 20 minutes of the replay I must say what a great game was played by Oscar. In the time I watched, no handling errors, several good intercept marks. I think he's going to be a star. Was better than Frost yesterday.

And Tyson was good over the whole game whereas the other mids were awful up until half time.

Agree with all this (with the disclaimer that you haven't seen the first 20 mins).

As for Bugg and to a lesser extent Hannan being the highflyers in the forward line, Pedo's goal was interesting. Watts seemed to be happy to bustle the three defenders in the pack, while Bugg came over the top, and it looked like a pre-arranged play. The Pies (like most teams we've played since our best contested marks haven't been available) were happy to keep Watts & T-Mac away from any marking contests (and only got penalised for it once). Can't remember ever seeing T-Mac struggle to get within several feet of so many marking contests, but it was obvious that they'd marked him out as the main Dee likely to take a contested mark and just kept him away from the drop of the ball. The two times he managed to get there, he had Howe running in behind him.

So using the leap of Bugg & Hannan to come over the back while Watts bustled them just enough to make it impossible for them to mark it, makes a lot of sense.

[monoccular 16,712]

On 12/06/2017 at 11:00 PM, Ethan Tremblay said:

He (Bugg)  kicked two. 

 

On 12/06/2017 at 11:20 PM, danielE288 said:

One was a cheapy over the top that he soccered.

and daniel it was recorded as six points, two more than we won by....not worthwhile?

On 13/06/2017 at 0:18 AM, the rolling fog said:

FWIW Tyson is currently 6th in the league for clangers, behind:

1. Fyfe 60

2. T Mitchell 56

3. (Equal) D Martin, Zorko 53

5. Dangerfield 52

6. Our man 48

...make of that what you will

Just shows that you can't do a clanger unless you get the ball. 

Percentage clangers could be a more interesting stat?

On 13/06/2017 at 8:13 PM, daisycutter said:

by the time jack kicked the ball he had run about 150m from behind the back of the square, all that at about the 28min of last qtr, and he nailed it at a pretty tight angle

watch his bounce before kicking......looks totally weird .......was it a left hand bounce or watt?

At the time I thought that he looked like a basketballer confidently running and dribbling down the court. 

Edited June 14, 2017 by monoccular

[danielE288 698]

1 hour ago, monoccular said:

 

and daniel it was recorded as six points, two more than we won by....not worthwhile?

 

Yeah they all count and obviously in the wash up it helped us get the win. All I'm saying is anyone can soccer off the ground, I don't really buy into he's getting in scoring positions, just shows a front running mentality who can't produce when the pressure is on.

Bugg offers something, just dont think its enough to demand a spot.

 

[beelzebub 22,762]

1 hour ago, monoccular said:

 

and daniel it was recorded as six points, two more than we won by....not worthwhile?

 

Curious why anyone would begrudge Bugg that goal. He made a silk purse out of Tmacs sow's ear !!

[bjDee 1,249]

On 2017-6-13 at 9:13 PM, faultydet said:

Yeah, he almost certainly would have had a glance, but it doesnt help my story, so I'm ignoring the possibility.

Christ I've watched the replay a lot. 

We need to pay homage to Hibberd. If not for his desperate spoil, Colonwood may have had a shot on goal. Match winning defence.

What a great pickup he has been.

Hibberd was an unsung hero.  He got to so many contests, and sprinted hard to keep so many Coll fwds under pressure at the contest, that he deserved more recognition.  He has been a great pickup.  I don't know that we have anyone who is quicker over the ground at the rabbit chase, other than maybe Hunt.

Watching from the ground you can also see that he is such a 'go to' guy for our defenders when they're under pressure.

[rolling fog 1,166]

15 hours ago, monoccular said:

Just shows that you can't do a clanger unless you get the ball. 

Percentage clangers could be a more interesting stat?

Disposal efficiency is probably the closest thing - Tyson currently going at 67.5% for the year so far...

[nutbean 8,837]

7 hours ago, the rolling fog said:

Disposal efficiency is probably the closest thing - Tyson currently going at 67.5% for the year so far...

Also a stat that shouldn't be too heavily relied on. Defenders usually have a better DE% than inside mids as they chip the ball around sidewards in the backline. Hand balling will usually bring your % up as well. Most of Tysons disposals are in the "heat". 

The best way to gauge a players disposal efficiency is using the eyes. Salem  and Watts use the ball well. Bugg and Harmes not so much. I think Jones disposal is a step up on Tyson's. Viney can miss targets as much as any in the team.  Tyson's disposal could absolutely use some tidying up  however I am in the camp of "it ain't as bad as some make out". I think he adds a different dimension to the team and adds value.

Edited June 15, 2017 by nutbean