6 minutes ago, ProDee said:

 

Belief and momentum are funny things.  Let's hope we have them towards the end of the season. 

Would have thought them handy attributes now, let alone then.

23 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

As others have mentioned in the thread this year could be a repeat of 1990

That year there were no stand out teams and drawn finals meant that lower teams (Dees included) had a break during the finals

FWIIW I believe GWS is potentially a rung above the rest if and when it gets its act together

If we win the next three I will get mildly excited about our prospects

GWS is so overrated it's not funny. I am 100% certain they will not win the flag. They have a bunch of players, probably 5-6 in their best 22 that are looking for their next big contract home, be it Victoria, WA or SA. They are the very definition of "a team of champions but not a champion team". They are showboaters like the Cats only difference being they have zero to show for it. Nothing made me happier than seeing the Bulldogs beat them last year. And I can assure you that should they play a final on the MCG, they'll get buried, regardless of who they play.

28 minutes ago, praha said:

GWS is so overrated it's not funny. I am 100% certain they will not win the flag. They have a bunch of players, probably 5-6 in their best 22 that are looking for their next big contract home, be it Victoria, WA or SA. They are the very definition of "a team of champions but not a champion team". They are showboaters like the Cats only difference being they have zero to show for it. Nothing made me happier than seeing the Bulldogs beat them last year. And I can assure you that should they play a final on the MCG, they'll get buried, regardless of who they play.

I feel like you're forgetting or flat out ignoring their injury list... they are missing about a 3rd of their best 22... and they are still winning more often than not. Coniglio, Griffen, Haynes, Hopper, Smith from their injury list would all be walk up starts in our side that is just 2 players short of full strength. They are debating whether they could fit them all in. You could make a case for Buntine, Deledio and maybe even that kid Setterfield getting in our side. So don't doubt the giants for a second. They arn't unbeatable.. but they are by far the most capable side in the comp.

36 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

I feel like you're forgetting or flat out ignoring their injury list... they are missing about a 3rd of their best 22... and they are still winning more often than not. Coniglio, Griffen, Haynes, Hopper, Smith from their injury list would all be walk up starts in our side that is just 2 players short of full strength. They are debating whether they could fit them all in. You could make a case for Buntine, Deledio and maybe even that kid Setterfield getting in our side. So don't doubt the giants for a second. They arn't unbeatable.. but they are by far the most capable side in the comp.

My post is not based on their current form. It's based on how they played last year and how they have played for patches this year. They seem like a very individualistic side that when challenged enough easily fold. My point being really that all of the top teams thus far have been "challenged" in some way, and all have failed the test (Crows vs North and Melbourne, Geelong vs Essendon, Bulldogs vs Cats, GWS vs St Kilda).

My post was in response to Jimbo saying they are above the rest. I'm highlighting that, no, they're not. And I feel they're overrated in a way other top teams aren't. I called it with Adelaide earlier this season before the Richmond game. I genuinely thought the Toiges would beat them because I felt the Crows were pushovers and hadn't been challenged. I was wrong about that game but right overall.

Talk about injuries and whatnot is overdone because GWS are supposed to have the best depth in the league. The Bulldogs played through 2016 having to make 2-3 changes every week, and lost best 22 players for long stretches. 

I just refuse to make the mistake that any one team is well above the rest. My issue with GWS is that I feel they're a "good team" in ways that are different to what we've seen from premiership sides the past decade. Their team reads like the School Boy All-Stars and they're well drilled but I'm not buying that they're so far above the rest.

2 hours ago, Demon17 said:

KB said yesterday we are one of only 3 Victorian teams that can win the premiership this year!.

 

How's that for exciting.

Let me guess. He thought his mob could win it too? No chance.

24 minutes ago, A F said:

Let me guess. He thought his mob could win it too? No chance.

Surprisingly not. He said Us, Saints and Dogs were the only contenders from Vic.

I immediately voted 'no way' principally because of our injury list and because we've dropped so many games that we should've won, which means we're currently out of the eight with a tough run of games ahead of us and key personnel still missing.

Then I read this thread and reflected on our win against Adelaide.

To beat Adelaide, and in the manner in which we did, with so many key players out and in a hostile environment, means we can beat anyone, anywhere. We owned the Crows. Simply dismantled them. With only 21 players for a lot of the game.

We make the 8 and we have a good run with injuries in September, and yep - we can win the flag.

Plainly, we can match every other side in the comp.

 

I think the club as a whole has to overcome two things to become a genuine contender. 

Firstly, the club (it's supporters, players and admin) need to be willing to endure some hardship on the current journey. That's ironic in some ways due to the flagellation we perform on ourself each winter (some for 50 years plus). That being said, there are some who think that our road to a premiership should contain no speed bumps nor emotional discomfort. 

People carried on like pork chops when Roosy mentioned the veil of negativity enveloping the club but he wasn't completely wrong. I view it more as a certain part of our club being coddled snowflakes. This was shown in two separate incidents:

1) when that bloke wrote into the club after we beat the Lions by 20 points telling Roosy he would rather us lose than win ugly.

2) that recent nuffy who sent back his cut up membership.

As PJ said after we lost to Essendon during the 2015 preseason, 'Believe it or not, we will lose football games this year.' 

To refer to pro wrestling logic, it is bad business practice if two wrestlers are booked into a feud where one guy is made out to dominate all their opposition and make them look foolish. Why? Because the dominant guy will be perceived to have beaten chumps and the wins will be perceived to have been pointless to the marks (wrestling slang for true believer fans). 

If we win a 'bruise free' flag, what will it be worth? How could we actually appreciate it? 

Secondly, if we do get up to the pointy end of the ladder, we need to shed this almost apologetic attitude of making it, and that we are just there to make up numbers at worst and we might luck our way into a flag at best. 

I have seen Melbourne in two GFs in my life and the spin coming out of the club was 'We are happy being underdogs against our powerful opponents (who we are secretly scared of) but you never know what might happen on the big day!' No acknowledgement that we deserve to be there on our merits and we are one horse in a two horse race. We were a team that were, dare I say it, waiting to lose.

We then comforted each other about the glorious future that lay ahead and that our time would come. The truth is that we should have viewed these losses as opportunities lost and as impetus to win one the following year.

We need to realize, essentially, that sport is basically a meritocracy and that only the durable and determined survive.

Edited May 20, 20178 yr by Colin B. Flaubert
Speech markers and spelling

1 hour ago, praha said:

My post is not based on their current form. It's based on how they played last year and how they have played for patches this year. They seem like a very individualistic side that when challenged enough easily fold. My point being really that all of the top teams thus far have been "challenged" in some way, and all have failed the test (Crows vs North and Melbourne, Geelong vs Essendon, Bulldogs vs Cats, GWS vs St Kilda).

My post was in response to Jimbo saying they are above the rest. I'm highlighting that, no, they're not. And I feel they're overrated in a way other top teams aren't. I called it with Adelaide earlier this season before the Richmond game. I genuinely thought the Toiges would beat them because I felt the Crows were pushovers and hadn't been challenged. I was wrong about that game but right overall.

Talk about injuries and whatnot is overdone because GWS are supposed to have the best depth in the league. The Bulldogs played through 2016 having to make 2-3 changes every week, and lost best 22 players for long stretches. 

I just refuse to make the mistake that any one team is well above the rest. My issue with GWS is that I feel they're a "good team" in ways that are different to what we've seen from premiership sides the past decade. Their team reads like the School Boy All-Stars and they're well drilled but I'm not buying that they're so far above the rest.

I pray you're right about GWS and I see elements of what you're saying - but I still see them forging a dynasty once their list matures, especially as they trade out players for top 20 picks and get priority academy picks

I think consistency is the key. Win a few games in a row, players start to trust each other and skills improve with confidence. Not sure what this season will hold, but the undeniable strength is our midfield. They are ferocious. We have stopped picking players that have "attributes" and now picking contested animals that actually know how to play the game. I'm convinced that opposition teams would not look forward to playing us now. This reminds me of the good teams in recent years - particularly Brisbane. Hoping finals this year so they can get a taste of what it's about. Then hopefully they get addicted to September action

Bringbackthebiff

You sum it up early...i.e

It's ALL about consistency. I don't think we have a claim to that just yet.

It almost beckons an irony in so much as the less we get excited about wins ( though happy we will be ) and more used to them then that indicates ,imho, that we are really going somewhere.

I like the sentiment of this thread, but it is way too early --- there is more to go in this season that has happened so far. I am not quite in Roosey's camp (which could be summed up as the two most likely contenders are those who make it to the Grand Final ), but trying to predict who is in the mix this year is a mug's game.

So, yes, I am up for it, and yes, we are contender this year!!

The psychological issues the team face that are constantly raised are far more likely to be performance anxiety related than hubris. I highly doubt we win a big match and then think we're the best and don't have to try anymore. It's more that when you have every man and his dog saying that the Demons are incapable of backing it up, overcoming that frailty becomes the focus rather than just going out and playing our natural game. We're more concerned about potentially losing than winning. When players say things such as 'we haven't won two in a row in a while' it becomes clear their focus of attention has drifted off-centre.

Let's just take it one week at a time.

1 minute ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Let's just take it one week at a time.

I prefer to take it one cliche at a time.

27 minutes ago, Biffen said:

I prefer to take it one cliche at a time.

How about 4-6 weeks at a time?

8 hours ago, Left-Field said:

Surprisingly not. He said Us, Saints and Dogs were the only contenders from Vic.

Ridiculous statement to make from him. He's a tired senile old man. While I feel they are overrated (mostly by their own fans) the Cats are still probably in the best "window" of the Victorian teams, and while Melbourne and the Saints have promise both are yet to show it regularly enough to be justified as contenders. The Dogs I'll give him because they've "been there", but they really look like they've lost their bite. 

Of the non Victorian teams GWS and Adelaide are the only two that stand out. WC seem to be down hill skiers and Port will be in the finals hunt but I can't see them making much of an impact. It's a very difficult year to judge.

Here's a simple equation. Although we presently sit in 10th, if we beat every team currently below us on the ladder for the remainder of the season we finish with 12 wins and most likely make the finals. Matches to come are against 12th 13th (x2) 14th 15th 17th (x2) 18th. Throw in repeat results and we go 10-4 from here on out. Win tomorrow and repeat the formula and it's 11-3.

It's interesting to view it with such objectivity. But I do hope the club shrinks are working overtime.

* run the same formula on the Saints and they go 5-8

Edited May 20, 20178 yr by Skuit

Playing around with the AFL ladder predictor (yeah i know, impossible exercise with the season so close)

Anyways, if we beat the Kangas and Suns we could very well be in 4th spot in the ladder heading into our bye.

The catch is we would be clear of 8th spot only by %, and just 1 game from 11th spot.

Crazy season.

Edited May 20, 20178 yr by Petraccattack

GWS are decimated by injury and just going

West Coast are rubbish, especially at the 'G

Port are looking good, but I still reckon are flaky

Geelong are ordinary.  And if you can limit the output of Dangerwood they're trash

Sydney might make the 8, but are just a side

Saints aren't a flag side

Richmond are Richmond

Adelaide lack midfield stars, but will be thereabouts

Dogs are solid, but are not a dominant footy side

Put a fork in Hawthorn

 

It's not a stretch to say that any side who makes the 8 is a chance.  And if you think that's a ridiculous assertion take up footy for an interest.

Just got to be in 8 come September.

Not a contender otherwise.

Well done on starting this thread. When will we ever learn

We are a bigger joke than Richmond

Bit of a reality check for the 'contender'  champions 

Won't make the 8, the Adelaide win was a false dawn just too inconsistent this year hopefully that disappears once we get more mature but can't see it happening this year, we need gawn and hogan desperately