POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 5

[JV7 2,350]

Well our season is cooked... 2-3 with no ruckman for the forseeable future. We'll do extremely well to get to 10 wins. 

[titan_uranus 24,974]

1 hour ago, Mr Steve said:

Only real negative tonight is that we should have been ten goals up at three quarter time. 

That's the main negative. Has been all season (bar the St Kilda game, I suppose).

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Thats why Viney sat on the bench for 8 mins ?

He was on the bench for 8 minutes because he was injured.

Shouldn't play next week, but I suspect he's the kind of player who will pretend things are OK. It's hurting the team. He has had a terrible start to the season and we're paying the price.

51 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Hogan was a statue tonight. Does he ever lead? Arguably the worst three goal game ever.

44 minutes ago, Watts Jurrah Dunn? said:

Arguably the most over-hyped "$1m a year" player ever. Always wants the one over the back where he can just lean into his opponent and protect the drop. Very few strings to his bow. 

Q4 Garlett streaming toward the pocket and he wants it over the back? Get on your bike and lead at the kicker Jesse! Garlett is not kicking it 60m in the 4th when we've been 2-3 players short all night!

This is complete and utter tripe.

Hogan gives you fair evidence to have a crack at him over - the sooking for free kicks is simply not good enough and I hate seeing it from anyone, let alone someone who should know better and had just come back from a 2 week suspension.

But he spent all night leading up and down the ground, repeatedly. Searching leads up to half-back which were frequently not rewarded, then cutting across into the open side of the ground to make space.

Posts which suggest otherwise are just garbage.

[hemingway 7,615]

2 minutes ago, TGR said:

He is a sook.  Lucky to kick his last one after he stopped and whinged....

 

Our mids busted their backsides.  Maybe the darts stopped him presenting a few times for our needed bail-out kicks in the last?

okay his body language is not good and he does stop too often and complain but our use of the ball and delivery forward is still poor. 

[picket fence 17,053]

5 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Not excuses, there are reasons which is something different. 

As well as all the reasons given tonight, the Demons still have weaknesses and players who frankly are not up to it.

We also have not developed match winners like a Martin, Riewoldt or Cochen. Players who provide the impetus and inspiration to win matches when the match is on the line.

Perhaps our match winners are still developing but we need them on centre stage soon.

Hemmingway, how many "Matchwiners" have we had in the last 10 or so years?? And if you struggle to name them, why has every other side got at least 2 or more A Graders?? Who are and have been match winners?? What we have is maybe some B graders , but even that is questionable!

Edited April 24, 2017 by picket fence

[Jaded No More 68,867]

A shattering loss and I am definitely not someone who makes excuses, but we were stuffed without rotations and no ruckman for 3 quarters. 

I do worry very much that defensively we are really regressing. We've let oppositions score far too many easy goals this year. Also Hogan looks to be off  with the fairies. Don't tell me it wasn't a night for forwards, look at Reiwoldt's game. Hogan just plays for the frees. He owed us big time and he was next to useless. Disappointing.

It feels like our season is slipping away and with possibly no ruckman now for who knows how long, we might be cooked. 

[Watts the matter 1,235]

3 minutes ago, Jerry Lundergard said:

This looks like a post written after a 100 point loss.

What do you disagree with?

[hemingway 7,615]

1 minute ago, picket fence said:

Hemmingway how many "Matchwiners have we had in the last 10 or so years?? And if you struggle to name them, why has every other side got at least 2 or more A Graders?? which are and have been match winners?? What we have is maybe some B graders , but even that is questionable!

That is the question picket !!!!

[frankie_d 1,471]

1 hour ago, dees189227 said:

I was sittiNg above that and predicted what was gOing to happen. No one went near cotchin. 

Salem was standing on the wrong side of him (our goal side) - the ball went over the back, and away he went.

I get it that Salem (and the rest) are stuffed, but "stand goal side of your appt and block the run" isn't a complex message

[hemingway 7,615]

1 minute ago, Jaded said:

A shattering loss and I am definitely not someone who makes excuses, but we were stuffed without rotations and no ruckman for 3 quarters. 

I do worry very much that defensively we are really regressing. We've let oppositions score far too many easy goals this year. Also Hogan looks to be off  with the fairies. Don't tell me it wasn't a night for forwards, look at Reiwoldt's game. Hogan just plays for the frees. He owed us big time and he was next to useless. Disappointing.

It feels like our season is slipping away and with possibly no ruckman now for who knows how long, we might be cooked. 

Agree about the defensive efforts at times. Really basic mistakes that you would not expect at AFL level. At times they look disorganized and slow. There were so many times when one Tiger outpointed two Melbourne defenders, often as a result of basic errors by our defenders. I can think of two examples, one when both defenders flew for the ball from behind Riewoldt and the other, when both defenders flew from in front. 

[stinga 557]

Can;t believe some of the rubbish on here.  Just got home from the game.  That was one of the best contested games of footy I've seen up to 3/4 time and we were flogging them.   Huge advantage in inside 50s in the first half and despite being 3 or 4 players down (2 playing injured so we at least had some bench). We were bigger than them and knocking them aside til the two bigger guys went down.   We probably should have been 7 or 8 in front at 3/4 time.  The last quarter was inevitable that we ran out of legs.  I was just hoping we could hold on.  How good were hibberd, hunt and clarrie!!

Edited April 24, 2017 by stinga

[frankie_d 1,471]

46 minutes ago, ding said:

Agree with practically all of this. Hogan in particular need to get his [censored] together. Sick to death of his sooking. Jack Watts gets ignored time after time after time after time, but you dont see him giving up like Hogan does.

Both Hogan and Garlett tend to run back and don't lead up (Hogan gets the ball up the ground - that's not what I'm talking about). Failure to present a target is a big deal for us inside 50

[Guest]

Do we get to play them again? I hope bloody so.

[Coq au vin 755]

24 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

We have got some work to do.

Our issues relate to finishing these days. 38 inside fifties should have resulted in a 4 goal lead going into half time.

Effort is fine. We need the killer instinct.

We have a no. 2 draft pick who's out of favour in the VFL, probably because he's too lacking in pace (Trengove). We have a no. 3 draft pick with recurrent head injuries who will most likely leave the game soon. We now have no AFL level ruckman. Our captain constantly turns the ball over or bombs it to nobody in particular. Our so-called second captain is not a captain. Multiple other draft picks were mistakes e.g. Lucas Cook, Cale Morton, Gysberts, etc. Until we've shaken all of that off we won't win a flag.

Hibberd looks good. Garlett is great. Watts is coming of age. Jetta is a star. Gawn will be back soon.

The game plan should be much more possession-focused with our players spreading better in the fifty and our players kicking it in there to a player rather than the current bombing it in to a pack.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Diamond

[McQueen 17,864]

Just now, stinga said:

Can;t believe some of the rubbish on here.  Just got home from the game.  That was one of the best contested games of footy I've seen up to 3/4 time and we were flogging them.   Huge advantage in inside 50s in the first half and despite being 3 or 4 players down (2 playing injured so we at least had some bench). We were bigger than them and knocking them aside til the two bigger buys went down.   We probably should have been 7 or 8 in front at 3/4 time.  The last quarter was inevitable that we ran out of legs.  I was just hoping we could hold on.  How good were hibberd, hunt and clarrie!!

Yeah, so why didn't we win?

[ding 5,126]

1 minute ago, stinga said:

Can;t believe some of the rubbish on here.  Just got home from the game.  That was one of the best contested games of footy I've seen up to 3/4 time and we were flogging them.   Huge advantage in inside 50s in the first half and despite being 3 or 4 players down (2 playing injured so we at least had some bench). We were bigger than them and knocking them aside til the two bigger buys went down.   We probably should have been 7 or 8 in front at 3/4 time.  The last quarter was inevitable that we ran out of legs.  I was just hoping we could hold on.  How good were hibberd, hunt and clarrie!!

And still we managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

[titan_uranus 24,974]

8 minutes ago, Jaded said:

A shattering loss and I am definitely not someone who makes excuses, but we were stuffed without rotations and no ruckman for 3 quarters. 

I do worry very much that defensively we are really regressing. We've let oppositions score far too many easy goals this year. Also Hogan looks to be off  with the fairies. Don't tell me it wasn't a night for forwards, look at Reiwoldt's game. Hogan just plays for the frees. He owed us big time and he was next to useless. Disappointing.

It feels like our season is slipping away and with possibly no ruckman now for who knows how long, we might be cooked. 

What a shallow analysis.

Each team's forward halves were vastly different. Our was clogged as a result of Richmond getting numbers back. Theirs was open as a result of the same thing.

Hogan had Rance on him, poor delivery and no support. Riewoldt had a mix of Frost and TMac on him, better delivery and at least a modicum of support.

Hogan was also being held more often than not - I don't agree one bit with his continual playing for frees and sooking when they don't come, in fact I find that pathetic, but he was held a lot tonight and that doesn't help.

[praha 11,236]

Injuries have killed us in two games, but ultimately, we've lost 2 games because of poor selection and coaching.

Leaders have also slaughtered us at pivotal moments. Jones has been a let done since round 3. 

[dazzledavey36 54,281]

This is quite alarming

[Jaded No More 68,867]

1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

This is quite alarming

To be fair we were hot garbage in 2013 and 2014 and 2015 so that's kinda harsh on Tom!

I do however believe that Frawley leaving has really put us back. Our backline hasn't been the same since and neither has Tom. 

Edited April 24, 2017 by Jaded

[Demons1858 1,752]

Our list is relatively young so there is time for players to become A graders. Some of out talent is ahead of schedule. Oliver, Viney, Hogan, Petracca, and perhaps Hunt will be A graders in time. 

Would love to know how many chest marks we dropped however. I know it was wet be we seemed to have holes in our arms at times.

Maybe the Lloyd can help

 

[praha 11,236]

Just now, dazzledavey36 said:

This is quite alarming

Rowe, Range and Thompson have all been part of finals teams. McDonald was a KPD in one of the worst teams of the past century (2013), and a non-finals team his whole career.

Stupid selective stats.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Haven't looked over whole thread. Am just on the phone.... but am I the only one who feels better after that than after week 4? I thought we were the better side by a mile, found guys in positions we need them, still lacking the cream that Tigers have in riewoldt Rance cotchin and dusty but that's cos we're still the second youngest side in the comp. had contributors everywhere and skill wise were sensational at times. But what can you do when you cop 4 injuries like that? Richmond are the worst 5-0 side ever. And I'm not embarrassed that we lost. Just as goody said in the post match it's frustrating but he's super proud of his guys. I applaud that. I'll sleep ok tonight. The real differences I've been hoping to see from the first four weeks were all there as clear as day. Clarry is unbelievable, cp5 will only need one touch to hurt you (sore knee and all), jack was great when needed, tmac and even frost at times did everything they could. I'm loving jeffys workrate, and anb had some flashes of maturity to go with his youthful overexuberance. Hibberd fills a hole we desperately needed filled, hunt is still flying. There's a lot to like. Now we find out what we have. Pedo comes in and takes shots in the ruck with jack and frost. I have a feeling we'll see frost forward as well, which is a worry. Weed will likely be rushed back. I'm still pumped to see what we produce. We have some immediate concerns, but if we're at parity by the time gawn and Spencer come back, then we'll make finals. 

[titan_uranus 24,974]

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

This is quite alarming

Rance is on that list, so presumably you think he's no good too?

[Demons1858 1,752]

2 minutes ago, Jaded said:

To be fair we were hot garbage in 2013 and 2014 and 2015 so that's kinda harsh on Tom!

Would prefer to see average per game down back. Numbers like that can be misleading

Edited April 24, 2017 by Demons1858

[The heart beats true 18,110]

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

This is quite alarming

That's a rubbish statistic.

Scott Thompson has played in a Prelim quality side since that period.