Welcome to Demonland: Jake Lever

[deelete my account 1,194]

20 minutes ago, Hell Bent said:

I wonder if The Weid has come up as a possible trade with a pick in exchange for Lever?

The emergence of TMac as a forward,  along with Hoges and Watts, means he is almost surplus to requirements, and yes I know we signed him up earlier this year,  but we know a contract is just a but if paperwork these days. 

I'd hate Frost to be on the table,  his upside is enormous in my opinion.

Lever would be a great get!

This makes sense. But this trade isn't about getting rid of our surplusses, but matching Adelaides needs. So they'd want a first round pick and a midfielder, or two? ANB? Edit: They'd probably ask for Tyson or Brayshaw if he gets on the park, and our second round pick?

Edited July 11, 2017 by DominatrixTyson

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

5 minutes ago, DominatrixTyson said:

This makes sense. But this trade isn't about getting rid of our surplusses, but matching Adelaides needs. So they'd want a first round pick and a midfielder, or two? ANB? 

True!  Could always be a 3way trade! Reckon the Dogs maybe Saints could do with a young key tall forward 

[whatwhat say what 22,744]

mitch cleary on 3aw reckons the dogs are the favourites to get him

but no one will know for certain until an announcement is made

[Skuit 10,031]

1 hour ago, fr_ap said:

Talk of trading  Frost is both wrong and highly disrespectful. He is a key reason we are doing as well as we are. There is no other KPD in the comp like him, he's unique and he's ours. 

I'm a fan but seriously, talking of trading a player is not highly disrespectful. Indeed, his name was raised as having some genuine trade value - i.e. he was respected as a player. Todd Viney and Jason Taylor must be some nasty pieces of work.

[Garbo 1,534]

I hope we arent trying to get him or Kelly, I can only think of 2 big trades Hawks: Burgoyne and Dogs: Boyd (arguably would have won anyway and forced by Griffen walking) to teams who then went on to win a flag, it's the smart trades for a player on the outer at there current side or the free agent since you give nothing up in return you want to go after. The hawks are the best example of this, they trageted free agents and players needing a 2nd chance. That or you draft a premiership team like the cats.

You don't have to look far for the converse. Swans recently with Tippett and Buddy, Cats with Danger, Blues with Daisy and Judd, Pies with Adam Treloar, Taylor Adams, Tigers with Prestia, Lions with Fevola, us with Mitch Clarke, Hawks this year for O'meara. I'm sure there are many more but you get the point

Edited July 11, 2017 by Garbo

[Gator 17,332]

8 hours ago, fr_ap said:

Talk of trading  Frost is both wrong and highly disrespectful. He is a key reason we are doing as well as we are. There is no other KPD in the comp like him, he's unique and he's ours. 

It's not wrong and it's certainly not disrespectful.

If Melbourne wants Lever, and we're reported to be very keen, list management requires most people on the list being discussed as potential trades.  The club will be looking at TMac's best long-term position; whether OMac, TMac, and Frost work together in the same back-line; how to fit Lever into that mix; how the high leaping Joel Smith fits in; etc. 

They don't look in isolation and get offended when a name is mentioned as possible trade bait.  They look at all the permutations and discuss what is the best eventual outcome as they take into account the current player mix.  

Also, this seems to be needed to be clarified, if you throw up a player's name as potential trade bait it doesn't 'necessarily' mean you don't rate that player as highly, or more highly, as someone who doesn't want said person traded.

That may be difficult for some to understand.

For me it's nothing personal.  It's about making us better and closer to a flag.

[pineapple dee 2,892]

11 hours ago, brendan said:

Well looks like we have some comedians lol

And there's some evidence for this ??????

[brendan 3,437]

The talk of trading frost is just crazy, you have frost omac lever as our key defenders, tmac to stay forward and ruck when required, draft picks should be enough to get any deal done we have shown we can hit good players with late picks anyway, a backline of

jetta lever hebberd 

omac frost hunt 

thats a brilliant backline 

and a gawn/tmac ruck combo is best in the league 

[Cards13 9,117]

3 minutes ago, brendan said:

The talk of trading frost is just crazy, you have frost omac lever as our key defenders, tmac to stay forward and ruck when required, draft picks should be enough to get any deal done we have shown we can hit good players with late picks anyway, a backline of

jetta lever hebberd 

omac frost hunt 

thats a brilliant backline 

and a gawn/tmac ruck combo is best in the league 

I think the thought process is you have to give up something to get something. Lever is a defender, which defender do we give up? Talk of Frost trade is ridiculous for mine as well, he is a very good player, plays big and short, has incredible pace and his kicking has improved tonne very reliable by foot.

In saying that what would they want from us? ANB (he is underrated on here) plus a pick plus another player? Midfield grunt they don't have at present.

 

[Moonshadow 17,676]

7 hours ago, Garbo said:

I hope we arent trying to get him or Kelly, I can only think of 2 big trades Hawks: Burgoyne and Dogs: Boyd (arguably would have won anyway and forced by Griffen walking) to teams who then went on to win a flag, it's the smart trades for a player on the outer at there current side or the free agent since you give nothing up in return you want to go after. The hawks are the best example of this, they trageted free agents and players needing a 2nd chance. That or you draft a premiership team like the cats.

You don't have to look far for the converse. Swans recently with Tippett and Buddy, Cats with Danger, Blues with Daisy and Judd, Pies with Adam Treloar, Taylor Adams, Tigers with Prestia, Lions with Fevola, us with Mitch Clarke, Hawks this year for O'meara. I'm sure there are many more but you get the point

I get your enthusiasm,  but it's not a quiz to name a trade that has resulted in a flag. We all know that one does not necessarily cause the other. It's about making our team better overall so that we can improve and get closer to a premiership and eventually win one (or two...)

If Lever makes us better, and clearly he would, there are only a handful of players who could not be part off the trade discussion. Frosty is not one of those.

One thing I hope we do not do is trade a future 1st round pick, next year's draft is reported to be exceptional 

[brendan 3,437]

23 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

I think the thought process is you have to give up something to get something. Lever is a defender, which defender do we give up? Talk of Frost trade is ridiculous for mine as well, he is a very good player, plays big and short, has incredible pace and his kicking has improved tonne very reliable by foot.

In saying that what would they want from us? ANB (he is underrated on here) plus a pick plus another player? Midfield grunt they don't have at present.

 

Surely draft picks get the job done, 1st and 2nd round picks, preferably next years 2nd pick if lever said he wants to come to us and only us the deal will get done and I would be surprised if we gave up a player, maybe trenners as steak knives if he wanted to head home 

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

8 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

I get your enthusiasm,  but it's not a quiz to name a trade that has resulted in a flag. We all know that one does not necessarily cause the other. It's about making our team better overall so that we can improve and get closer to a premiership and eventually win one (or two...)

If Lever makes us better, and clearly he would, there are only a handful of players who could not be part off the trade discussion. Frosty is not one of those.

One thing I hope we do not do is trade a future 1st round pick, next year's draft is reported to be exceptional 

Doubt Adelaide would actually want a future 1st rounder, I'd imagine they'll be gunning to add something immediate to their team as they are well in the so called 'premiership window' and won't want to wait. We might need to get creative to move up the draft order if they want a really high pick, something like our first this year and a 2nd next year for a clubs 1st this year, meaning we might be able to give pick 6 or 7 instead of pick 14 or higher.

[daisycutter 29,613]

7 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Doubt Adelaide would actually want a future 1st rounder, I'd imagine they'll be gunning to add something immediate to their team as they are well in the so called 'premiership window' and won't want to wait. We might need to get creative to move up the draft order if they want a really high pick, something like our first this year and a 2nd next year for a clubs 1st this year, meaning we might be able to give pick 6 or 7 instead of pick 14 or higher.

there is always the option of a three way trade, so we could use future picks to another club who in turn provide a ready made

[brendan 3,437]

We would have to trade a future first rounder and probably this years second rounder to get a better 1st round this year as clubs will expect us to go up the ladder next year, only club I can see maybe giving 1 up is saints as they will have hawks pick 

[Biffen 12,943]

Paying $800-1mill  a year is not good for a cohesive team like ours has become.

We have a combo of home grown loyalists, -Gawn,Watts,Jones,Viney,Jetta,TomMc,Smith,Hoges

4 good journeymen in Pedo,Garlett, Vince and Lewis,

drafted guns-Petracca,Oliver,Frost,Hunt ,Tyson etc

Having a "Marquee player" builds resentment in a list when they don't fire.

Our model is based on "profit share" sysytem as it should be.

[McQueen 17,864]

The admiration for Frost and Omac on the back of some good form is nice and completely warranted.

All players have off days though so I hope when they spud it up next we offer them some leeway as they continue to develop. Somehow I can't see that will be the case.

[brendan 3,437]

6 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Paying $800-1mill  a year is not good for a cohesive team like ours has become.

We have a combo of home grown loyalists, -Gawn,Watts,Jones,Viney,Jetta,TomMc,Smith,Hoges

4 good journeymen in Pedo,Garlett, Vince and Lewis,

drafted guns-Petracca,Oliver,Frost,Hunt ,Tyson etc

Having a "Marquee player" builds resentment in a list when they don't fire.

Our model is based on "profit share" sysytem as it should be.

Seems like a lot but with the cba just done I would say we could front end the contract so wouldn't hurt us long term 

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

2 hours ago, ProDee said:

For me it's nothing personal.  It's about making us better and closer to a flag.

Last week you were suggesting Frost plus early picks for Lever and Jones.  Your view was TMac wouldn't stay as a long term forward.  You also thought Frost, Macs x 2 shouldn't play in the same back line because of their disposal skills.  I thought it was an absolutely reasonable position to take although I didn't necessarily agree with all aspects of it.

On the weekend we saw some really interesting performances.  Has that caused you to rethink your views?

My concern is that if we use our early picks to get the Lever deal done we are spending our leverage to improve an area we are well served so whilst we are better it's a high price to pay for the improvement.  My view is we really need some class outside speed and I'd be searching for it far and wide.  Kelly is an obvious one but I'm wondering if there are other options at other clubs.

Does anyone have any ideas?

[brendan 3,437]

Outside speed here is 1 from left field just read on afl website that dom barry has been tearing it up for glenelg, I always liked him was a shame he left but family comes 1st, I wonder if he is in a position for a second crack at it 

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

7 minutes ago, brendan said:

Outside speed here is 1 from left field just read on afl website that dom barry has been tearing it up for glenelg, I always liked him was a shame he left but family comes 1st, I wonder if he is in a position for a second crack at it 

I liked him as well, hopefully he's matured a bit from when he was with us. I heard very early on that, nearly the opposite to some indigenous players, he actually liked the Melbourne lifestyle a bit too much and might have been focusing his efforts elsewhere rather than his footy. Maybe returning home and engaging with his community a bit more has given him greater perspective and if he comes back he'll be prepared to give it his all, in which case I'd happily give him another chance. 

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Hopper from GWS delays re-signing. Talk he may slip out.

Anyone have intel? 

[Demon Disciple 12,119]

11 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Hopper from GWS delays re-signing. Talk he may slip out.

Anyone have intel? 

apparently Dons are gunning for him.

[whatwhat say what 22,744]

blues are also chasing hopper, big time

everyone will

it was absurd that he was part of their academy; the kid basically lived in ballarat from the age of 12 onwards, and leeton is closer to melbourne than it is sydney for goodness' sake

the zone that gw$ has access to is far, far too large

Edited July 12, 2017 by DemonAndrew

[Wiseblood 24,637]

3 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

apparently Dons are gunning for him.

Or that's just Buckenara mentioning him as someone they should go after.

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

4 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

blues are also chasing hopper, big time

everyone will

it was absurd that he was part of their academy; the kid basically lived in ballarat from the age of 12 onwards, and leeton is closer to melbourne than it is sydney for goodness' sake

the zone that gw$ has access to is far, far too large

The Blues will chase anything in orange.  They can't really develop their own talent all that well, outside of Cripps, so they need to get it from elsewhere.