Welcome to Demonland: Jake Lever

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

4 minutes ago, SFebey said:

I could not have made it any clearer that I was joking...

One can never be certain around these parts.

[Die Hard Demon 1,224]

1 minute ago, layzie said:

I'd still have him back in a heartbeat!

Howe wouldn't want to be back at Melbourne now that Bucks has him playing as a forward.

[layzie 34,339]

Pretty much. Do miss him though. Probably the only one we've let go where that is the case. 

[binman 44,533]

20 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Not sure why this has turned into a Lever vs Oscar thread, they would play in the same team if Lever came to us. 

I am. Steve is obsessed with trying to prove himself right about Tmac's younger brother. To be frank it is getting ridiculous. 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

20 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Not sure why this has turned into a Lever vs Oscar thread, they would play in the same team if Lever came to us. With Adelaide, Lever plays with Talia and Hartigan/Keith as the 2 'bigger' guys and also has Jake Kelly in the mix. Ideally we'd have Lever, TMac, OMac and Hibberd, which I think would be an even better combination than Adelaide's. OMac incidentally average's around the same intercepts as both Talia and Hartigan. 

It hasn't. 

I'd say 80% of the thread is about Lever.

There's nothing wrong with comparing players anyway.

As for which defensive group you'd have, Adelaide's is much better than ours at full strength. Their depth, talent and experience are way above ours.

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

2 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

It hasn't. 

I'd say 80% of the thread is about Lever.

There's nothing wrong with comparing players anyway.

As for which defensive group you'd have, Adelaide's is much better than ours at full strength. Their depth, talent and experience are way above ours.

 

And the other 20% is you trying to discredit Oscar in any way you can.  It's getting tiresome.

[binman 44,533]

29 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

And the other 20% is you trying to discredit Oscar in any way you can.  It's getting tiresome.

Call me old fashion but i always though supporters defend their own players and bag opposition players not vice versa.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,448]

13 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Weighted too much our way Norm.

Think the Lever/Watts/Gibbs three club deal has legs. Maybe our 2017 second rounder to Adelaide as well. We lose Watts and 2nd round pick and gain Lever.

Having said that, I like Watts and would be sad to see him traded

No way Adelaide accepts Gibbs and a 2nd rounder for Lever you're dreaming. Only way that 3way trade gets up is if we give up at least a 1st rounder as well and perhaps Carton also send a 2nd rounder the Crows way

[layzie 34,339]

I would imagine our 1st rounder would play some part in this deal

[Dr. Gonzo 24,448]

10 hours ago, kurtneverdied said:

Lever is No.1 in Afl for intercept marks per game at 9.69 per game.
Frost at No.27 at 6.50.

So effectively if Lever replaced him we are statistically say a goal to the better per game?

That's huge.

We would've won an extra 2-3 games this year if that was the case

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

2 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

^

I find it funny that posters play down the importance of an effective intercept player. Almost as though they have an easier job than a player who doesn't have the same intercept ability.

The fact that Lever is number 1 on the list as a key defender at the same age as O-Mac and similar games is mind blowing. 

Do supporters understand that intercept players also have opponents to play on too?

Hibberd is our best intercept player and sits at number 9 on that list and he's arguably now one of our most important players.

Imagine having a key defender version of him..

Steve, try not to confuse support for Oscar and others as criticism of Lever or an unwillingness to trade for him.

Lever is better than Oscar.  We know that.  But that doesn't support your view that Oscar is no good.

[beelzebub 23,390]

Just now, Vogon Poetry said:

Steve, try not to confuse support for Oscar and others as criticism of Lever or an unwillingness to trade for him.

Lever is better than Oscar.  We know that.  But that doesn't support your view that Oscar is no good.

That is fair appraisal

Its also fair actually to acknowledge that these two are particularly comparable.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

12 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

That is fair appraisal

Its also fair actually to acknowledge that these two are particularly comparable.

 

Quote

Lever is better than Oscar. 

 

I did.

[beelzebub 23,390]

3 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

 

 

I did.

Possibly a little too succinctly. STMJ ..whilst possibly overstating his position  is right to suggest its not just better...but more a case of chalk and cheese.  That's all

[binman 44,533]

35 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

That is fair appraisal

Its also fair actually to acknowledge that these two are particularly comparable.

Sure. If you need to. Not sure why you would need or want to though. Lever wont replace no 28.

But if we want to compare them - and avoid a silly who will better argument - lets factor in that all players, but particulaly talls develop at different rates. Lever is a gun. But blind freddy can see that. But it is not inconceivable he might level out given he is alreafy playing at a high level. Though it should be noted in this context he is playing in a better side.  And it is not inconceivable no 28 has scope for considerable improvement. And pwrhaps more upside than lever.

And it should also be noted that whilst there are similarities - age, height, weight, both defenders - lever is much more a rance style intercepr player. No 28 will likely end up 10kgs heavier and play different role, ine more akin to tbat played by tmac. 

If lever comes to the dees  - which i reallt hopes he does - he will be a perfect combination with no 28.

Edited August 22, 2017 by binman

[Demonstone 23,342]

How very MCC-like of you to call players by their number, binman.  But what has Weideman got to do with the topic?

[binman 44,533]

4 minutes ago, demonstone said:

How very MCC-like of you to call players by their number, binman.  But what has Weideman got to do with the topic?

Very good point. 

[beelzebub 23,390]

5 minutes ago, binman said:

Sure. If you need to. Not sure why you would need or want to though. Lever wont replace no 26. 

But if we want to compare them - and avoid a silly who will better argument - lets factor in that all players, but particulaly talls develop at different rates. Lever is a gun. But blind freddy can see that. But it is not inconceivable he might level out given he is alreafy playing at a high level. Though it should be noted in this context he is playing in a better side.  And it is not inconceivable no 26 has scope for considerable improvement. And pwrhaps more upside than lever.

And it should also be noted that whilst there are similarities - age, height, weight, both defenders - lever is much more a rance style intercepr player. No 26 will likely end up 10kgs heavier and play different role, ine more akin to tbat played by tmac. 

If lever comes to the dees  - which i reallt hopes he does - he will be a perfect combination with no 26.

Yes. He's in a better side. Conversely the side is better for him being in it.

The comparison is there because quite simply it is. It's been part of this discussion for along while and is nothing new.

Part of the Omac critique over the journey was to compare him to the likes of Lever even before it seemed a possibility that Lever may indeed be on our radar and a possible get. At this point it gained another dimension.

It would , I agree , be more than likely that Omac will develop  into a role somewhat augmented than the one he is charged with currently. He sort of needs to.

Lever is already quite accomplished. I see no reason why he would plateau.

[Red and Blue realist 2,058]

13 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Yes. He's in a better side. Conversely the side is better for him being in it.

The comparison is there because quite simply it is. It's been part of this discussion for along while and is nothing new.

Part of the Omac critique over the journey was to compare him to the likes of Lever even before it seemed a possibility that Lever may indeed be on our radar and a possible get. At this point it gained another dimension.

It would , I agree , be more than likely that Omac will develop  into a role somewhat augmented than the one he is charged with currently. He sort of needs to.

Lever is already quite accomplished. I see no reason why he would plateau.

I don't see the Lever and OMac comparison as fair or correct, given that they do play different roles, and the way we play as a team being much different to the way Adelaide play. If OMac was playing for Adealide he'd be taking Hartigan/Keith's role, whereas if Lever was with us he'd be taking Frost's role (I know he's not playing at the moment) as the 3rd tall with Hibberd returning to a 4th tall/primary interceptor/re-bounder role. 

The Lever discussion should be about what he can bring to the team rather than who/what he could replace at the moment. I think he'd actually make guys like TMac and OMac considerably better players as they can both take the game on and might find a better balance when rebounding from Def50. At the moment some of the frustration is that Tmac, OMac and Frost seem to get caught out with their run forward, where Lever seems to have a better ability to read the play and would bring better leadership and structure to the backline. 

[jnrmac 20,276]

12 hours ago, DavidNeitz9 said:

You can trade out of contract players

You can? So if Frost says I want to go to Adelaide we can't do a trade he ends up back in the draft? Is that how it works?

[Pennant St Dee 13,403]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We would've won an extra 2-3 games this year if that was the case

We would have won an extra 2 games if Hibberd converted on the run against North in Hobart and Cam Mcarthys late lunge hadnt connected at the G earlier in the season.

Footy is full of what ifs

[nutbean 8,838]

18 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

You can? So if Frost says I want to go to Adelaide we can't do a trade he ends up back in the draft? Is that how it works?

I didn't think that was the case. I thought that players contract's expired after the trade period ended so you had a chance to trade players who were coming out of contract but before the national/preseason draft.

[Redleg 41,952]

38 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

I don't see the Lever and OMac comparison as fair or correct, given that they do play different roles, and the way we play as a team being much different to the way Adelaide play. If OMac was playing for Adealide he'd be taking Hartigan/Keith's role, whereas if Lever was with us he'd be taking Frost's role (I know he's not playing at the moment) as the 3rd tall with Hibberd returning to a 4th tall/primary interceptor/re-bounder role. 

The Lever discussion should be about what he can bring to the team rather than who/what he could replace at the moment. I think he'd actually make guys like TMac and OMac considerably better players as they can both take the game on and might find a better balance when rebounding from Def50. At the moment some of the frustration is that Tmac, OMac and Frost seem to get caught out with their run forward, where Lever seems to have a better ability to read the play and would bring better leadership and structure to the backline. 

Good post.

[faultydet 7,623]

16 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Dusty is a great footballer with the maturity and intellegence of a 3 week old puppy. He'll go where the money and easy life is.

Back to Lever, I think the Lever/TMac/OMac combo will improve both OMac and TMac as footballers

I'd play for University for $1.5m/7yrs

Tigers wont win a flag with the current list.

If he wants success, he needs to lower his eyes a bit, and settle for the 3 story house in Toorak, instead of the whole building at Eureka Tower.

 

I'd be very interested to hear the rumours re: the offer to Lever.

 

@Redleg?

@Chook in Perth?

[picket fence 17,978]

17 hours ago, pineapple dee said:

Can we keep Lever away from our Romsey based demonlanders please. We don't know where they've been ( though we could make an educated guess )

I 'm Sure Uncle Bitter would keep him out of halms way definately !!!!! Yep no doubt!