Tom and Oscar... both were very disappointing again !!!!

Just now, stuie said:

Out of curiosity, were any of the people who thought OMac was good today actually at the game?

Because I was, and I haven't been a big critic of him but today he was insipid, weak, lost and confused. Now, that's just today, and there is hope for him, but you can't possibly think he was good today. Beaten in nearly every contest.

 

Still got himself 22 touches, most of which weren't bad, and he didn't have a bag of goals kicked on him.

He might still have some wobbly moments, and I do get nervous a little when he is around, but the bashing above is going a touch too far, even for you Stuie.

Just now, Wiseblood said:

Still got himself 22 touches, most of which weren't bad, and he didn't have a bag of goals kicked on him.

He might still have some wobbly moments, and I do get nervous a little when he is around, but the bashing above is going a touch too far, even for you Stuie.

I've not been a basher of him previously, and I do still think he will eventually make it, but I'm just commenting on today's game. Don't really care about how many touches he gets, on a wet day against the Hawks it's about winning the contests, and he was beaten in nearly all of them. He wasn't the only one to disappoint today, but I really don't think it's right for people to be saying he had a good game.

 

He had good and bad moments but I also question just what exactly he is learning at the moment playing alongside his brother and Frost/Garland, with other youngsters in the backline. 

There's very little cohesion there and that can't be good for learning to play the game. 

The counter to that is it was wet and the Hawks have some elite pressure forwards. 

Just now, stuie said:

I've not been a basher of him previously, and I do still think he will eventually make it, but I'm just commenting on today's game. Don't really care about how many touches he gets, on a wet day against the Hawks it's about winning the contests, and he was beaten in nearly all of them. He wasn't the only one to disappoint today, but I really don't think it's right for people to be saying he had a good game.

 

I would disagree mate, but clearly we've seen it differently.  Not going to debate it with you as we'll probably just go round in circles.

Just now, Wiseblood said:

I would disagree mate, but clearly we've seen it differently.  Not going to debate it with you as we'll probably just go round in circles.

Fair enough. That's footy hey? Two people can see the same things but judge them completely differently.

Backline has been a big worry for me this year, and today just cemented for me that it's too attacking and not defensive minded enough as a group. Wagner, Hunt, OMac are all good at running forward but in contested situations they just get pushed out of the way or lose their feet too easily.

 

Oscar was better today.

I was at the game. Oscar struggled early but I thought his last quarter was solid. In the end, I had him ahead of his brother, who always struggles below his knees. I may be wrong, but I don't think Gunston scored a goal in the second half and the few times I looked down to see who was on him it was Oscar (obviously the backs rotate). I think Oscar will develop into a good player but he is getting games earlier than I would have liked. I can understand the thinking of the match committee and I am confident they know what they are doing.

24 minutes ago, stuie said:

Out of curiosity, were any of the people who thought OMac was good today actually at the game?

Because I was, and I haven't been a big critic of him but today he was insipid, weak, lost and confused. Now, that's just today, and there is hope for him, but you can't possibly think he was good today. Beaten in nearly every contest.

 

Stu you can add him to that list of players you think will never make it, like Hunt.

Just now, Moonshadow said:

Stu you can add him to that list of players you think will never make it, like Hunt.

Not surprisingly, you can't read. Feel free to see the posts where I said: "there is hope for him" and "I do still think he will eventually make it".

But I know you wouldn't be such a troll if you actually played the ball and took note of the facts.

Move on.

 

He was better today, but both him and his brother were average. I know Oscar is still very slight, but he needs to lift his intensity. He often just jogs instead of chasing properly and doesn't put his body into marking contests. We don't know yet if he'll be a decent player long-term, but hopefully playing him now pays off because it's costing us. 

Hopefully his brother Tom sharpens up too. He's become so loose when defending this year and often over-runs the ball by trying to take it at full pelt and dodge opponents like he's Gary Ablett. He needs to get back to basics and become a solid defender before he tries the fancy stuff.

1 minute ago, stuie said:

Not surprisingly, you can't read. Feel free to see the posts where I said: "there is hope for him" and "I do still think he will eventually make it".

But I know you wouldn't be such a troll if you actually played the ball and took note of the facts.

Move on.

 

How is it that you cannot cope with someone pointing out that you make terrible assessments on young players who have played a handful of games, who get the pill more times than anyone except our top 3 mids, who was by far not our worst todsy? So disagreeing with you once every two or three weeks is trolling but it's OK to call others names within a few minutes? Hypocrite.

Watch the game and forget about the man. 

56 minutes ago, stuie said:

Fair enough. That's footy hey? Two people can see the same things but judge them completely differently.

Backline has been a big worry for me this year, and today just cemented for me that it's too attacking and not defensive minded enough as a group. Wagner, Hunt, OMac are all good at running forward but in contested situations they just get pushed out of the way or lose their feet too easily.

 

not every contest  

25 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

He was better today, but both him and his brother were average. 

summed up well. 

1 hour ago, stuie said:

Out of curiosity, were any of the people who thought OMac was good today actually at the game?

Because I was, and I haven't been a big critic of him but today he was insipid, weak, lost and confused. Now, that's just today, and there is hope for him, but you can't possibly think he was good today. Beaten in nearly every contest.

 

Good Post.  trying things in the last 1/4 beyond his capability is a concern and makes me more nervous than when his brother has the ball.  Worth preserving but for how long?

Maybe they are simply inexperienced and worth persevering with despite some short term pain at times?

Top teams back their selecton and players. We are not in the Neeld era anymore. 

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Oscar was better today.

You know a player played better when CB doesn't take the opportnity to put them down. 

30 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Maybe they are simply inexperienced and worth persevering with despite some short term pain at times?

Top teams back their selecton and players. We are not in the Neeld era anymore. 

The query is whether he is worth persevering with in the seniors.

He's not adding a whole lot and he's making a huge number of mistakes.

At least with Hunt, Wagner, Oliver, Petracca etc. the positives are generally outweighing the negatives.

I don't think there is any reason to write his long-term future off but right now I just do not think he is best 22, or even close to it.

9 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

The query is whether he is worth persevering with in the seniors.

He's not adding a whole lot and he's making a huge number of mistakes.

At least with Hunt, Wagner, Oliver, Petracca etc. the positives are generally outweighing the negatives.

I don't think there is any reason to write his long-term future off but right now I just do not think he is best 22, or even close to it.

Most tall players have similar question marks over them. I know I questioned TMac, Dunn, Frawley, Jamar, Gawn and Watts at various times early in their careers. They are different from smaller players such as Hunt, Wagner, Oli and Tracc whose opponents are generally not the big targets as play is advanced. I think Roos and Goodwin see the future differently from us, but like us all I hope their call is the correct one.

I can remember a Life Member of Richmond asking me once whether James Frawley would make it and I said he would. Development and Patience.

DId the Mc Donalds Grandfather pinch all the sheep of'f some of you people, because some of you would blame them for Jesse Hogan missing a goal at the other end of the ground   ( was it OMac who caused him to have an airy) or Jack watts fumbling a handball. Let us be fair, today's conditions were very difficult. Only 12 months ago you were spruiking Tmac as AA, now you are blaming him for howard invading Iraq.

I know stats  can be interpreted in different ways. TMac and OMac (THE TERRIBLE TWOSOME) were two of our highest possession getters plus were 1 & 2 in 1 % plus were high up in % Effectiveness. If they were getting so many possessions, required to perform so many 1% ers then somebody else must have been stuffing things up further up the ground. FWIW I thought MFC played pretty well today against the current Premiers X 3.

Fair is fair. !!! I think David Neitz was the last KPD to march straight in and take the game on as a teenager ( apart from the current bloke at Caaaaaaaaaaaarlton)

3 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

You know a player played better when CB doesn't take the opportnity to put them down. 

Please.

4 hours ago, stuie said:

Out of curiosity, were any of the people who thought OMac was good today actually at the game?

Because I was, and I haven't been a big critic of him but today he was insipid, weak, lost and confused. Now, that's just today, and there is hope for him, but you can't possibly think he was good today. Beaten in nearly every contest.

 

You are correct with your analysis on omac game but today was his best game.

He was even more insipid in his previous game so wonder why u chose this game to let rip?

2 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Most tall players have similar question marks over them. I know I questioned TMac, Dunn, Frawley, Jamar, Gawn and Watts at various times early in their careers. They are different from smaller players such as Hunt, Wagner, Oli and Tracc whose opponents are generally not the big targets as play is advanced. I think Roos and Goodwin see the future differently from us, but like us all I hope their call is the correct one.

Definitely agree on the difference between talls and smalls.

IMO, OMac's first few games have been well below the standard seen in those you've named except Watts, who we all can admit was debuted too early, which is essentially how I feel about OMac right now.

I understand that the FD wants to get games into the players it sees as taking us to our next premiership, and Dunn is likely not one of those, but I just do not think OMac is worth his spot in the side at the moment.

Good luck to him if he continues to hold his spot. We all want him to become a new FB for this team going forward. I just, currently, think he should be developing in the VFL not the AFL.

6 hours ago, stuie said:

Out of curiosity, were any of the people who thought OMac was good today actually at the game?

Because I was, and I haven't been a big critic of him but today he was insipid, weak, lost and confused. Now, that's just today, and there is hope for him, but you can't possibly think he was good today. Beaten in nearly every contest.

He made a number of good spoils and given the slippery conditions managed to help clear the ball from defensive 50 effectively at least a few times. He can get pushed off the ball too easily at times, but so can his brother.

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

Definitely agree on the difference between talls and smalls.

IMO, OMac's first few games have been well below the standard seen in those you've named except Watts, who we all can admit was debuted too early, which is essentially how I feel about OMac right now.

I understand that the FD wants to get games into the players it sees as taking us to our next premiership, and Dunn is likely not one of those, but I just do not think OMac is worth his spot in the side at the moment.

Good luck to him if he continues to hold his spot. We all want him to become a new FB for this team going forward. I just, currently, think he should be developing in the VFL not the AFL.

Maybe he is minding it for Milkshake?