Jack of all professional sporting clubs (possibly all teams the world over) I would think we are the one who can least afford to throw away a chance at playing finals for the sake of blooding a few youngsters In the seniors with a permanent role at the sake of more seasoned (generally better performing...at this point) veterans, rather than the odd game here and there whilst allowing them to continue their development In a secondary division.   

None of Mr OMac, Frost or Hunt have demonstrated that they deserve a permament place In this backline (team) yet at the sake of more senior players like Dunn/Pederson. I would expect the same for seniors (eg., Garland's last efforts have been below even Oscar's IMO, albeit very marginally yet he still manages a place!!??). And since when does anyone, other than a club champ/captain, deserve a permanent place just to suit method/style (over poor form!??). That would be news to me...in any form of 'professional' team sport.

Happy for them to earn It and receive the odd game with the big boys (or more If they perform to a decent level) and more than happy for them to push the likes of Pedo, Dunn or Garlo out (temporarily or permenantly) provided they earn/deserve it.

We would do well to learn from the best In the business, who may well tear us a new one (ie, 8 plus goals wld be a 'new one' in my view given the team they're fielding today). Their model of developing/blooding youngsters at Box Hill for a few seasons or more (injuries allowing...today/recent weeks/coming weeks may be an exception...forcing them to dig a little) before throwing them in the deep end, seems to work wonders.

Ty but on this one im happy to agree to disagree

By all means play them, but let's only do so (on a regular basis) once they're up to speed at AFL level.

2 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Would you be concerned if that cost us a possible place in the finals this year but made our prospects of becoming a regular finalist in years to come immeasurably better?

I dispute your premise Jack. 

The Hawthorn model displays the wisdom of bringing in players ONCE they're capable not before. 

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

I dispute your premise Jack. 

The Hawthorn model displays the wisdom of bringing in players ONCE they're capable not before. 

Hawthorn had/have a team full of gun footballers who keep the youngsters out .. we don't have that luxury.

It could be argued that our youngsters are replacing failed senior players who never really showed much.  Unless one truly believes that Grimes, Dawes, Dunn, Terlich, Garland, Matt Jones, Pedersen and a few others were or are "good" footballers and have had excellent career's.

In my opinion, we haven't had many good footballers in the last 9 years so we're not losing much by replacing them with promising youth.  Previous regimes drew a line through players who consistently won games and took us to finals.  Comparing what we're doing now to what happened then has vast dissimilarities.

 

I hadn't noticed  Oscar tearing it up in the Magoo's bashing on the door for selection.

His inclusion smacks more of experimentation. Thought we'd  evolved from that.

Just now, beelzebub said:

I hadn't noticed  Oscar tearing it up in the Magoo's bashing on the door for selection.

His inclusion smacks more of experimentation. Thought we'd  evolved from that.

We can't experiment?

All teams experiment, all the time.  And it's being going on forever. 

Forget what happened from '07 - '13 bub - we had a team of people in charge who lacked experience.  Their focus on first round draft picks and the draft pick "number' was flawed.  The blueprint ultimately failed - spectacularly.

This time around we're recruiting from all over and in so many different ways - the only thing we haven't done is go after free agents but I expect the club to go down that path too.  It's true that we need a number of talented experienced players and free agency will allow the club to do that.  We might be able to trade for experienced talent too.

In a nutshell, if we had a much better list of experienced talented players, a lot of these youngsters would be biding their time.

 

 

Get him off.... Bring him back in 2 years 

Just now, bandicoot said:

Get him off.... Bring him back in 2 years 

Could say the same about yourself.  He's started well.

3 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Could say the same about yourself.  He's started well.

Our backline is a siv because we have a 19yo stick holding up a key position.

 

Just now, bandicoot said:

Our backline is a siv because we have a 19yo stick holding up a key position.

 

If that's what you think then I feel sorry for your comprehension of what football is.

Macca... I'd  say the experiment is failing badly

9 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Macca... I'd  say the experiment is failing badly

The backline being under siege doesn't necessarily mean the backmen should be blamed.

Up until the last 10-15 minutes our overall midfield has been poor in terms of retaining possession and turning over the ball ... and our forward line was not holding the ball in either.

It's all about team defence these days bub.  And in the last 15 minutes, that's what we've been displaying.  1 point in front as I type this.

 

19 hours ago, old dee said:

Oh I get it LH the idea is not  to win games but to give kids games no matter how the perform.

Sounds like Bailey all over again.

 

Agreed, in some conditions older guys with bigger bodies and longer kicks can make a difference. Can help they younger ones develop also. Its about balance and horses for courses.  

Oscar played his best game against Hawthorn. Still a long way to go; and with a slow wet game he did OK.

On 28 May 2016 at 3:28 PM, dl4e said:

Back to casey. Maybe valuable in a couple of years.

 

On 28 May 2016 at 3:35 PM, picket fence said:

Make that "Light Years" and you may be onto something!!

You bitter individual, picket.   

He has a long way to go, but was far from our worst today.  

Under seige v Hawks did reasonably well.

Yes he still has a lot to learn but will learn faster playing AFL than VFL.  That said he may be due for a spell at Casey.

PS: not (well actually yes) wanting to be a total pedant, but a light year is a measure of distance not of time, FYI.

I thought he got his hands on it and scrubbed it forward well. Still wasn't convincing defensively. And one horror moment when he should have let the ball dribble through for a behind.

Overall, he was ok.

He's still part of a massive liability that is out defense. We win and lose games in the back end of the ground. Both McDonald brothers having a shocking sense of defensive awareness sometimes, and Wagner and Hunt sometimes understate the level of pressure around them, leading them to get caught. Jetta is the only level-headed defender we have and can match it with talls better than anyone else can, which says a lot. 

We are far from a finals teams, and that's because our defensive stocks are terrible. I really hate seeing opposition teams get goals when 5 Melbourne players go up in the same contest, or when a Melbourne player goes for a punch like a fairy and misses it completely, or when they fall to the ground and their player jumps back up and snaps at goal, or when a forward marks against 2-3 Melbourne players, or when a forward smokes 2-3 Melbourne defenders who basically bump into each other and clash heads.

I get it is a work in progress, but we are winning and losing games in the defensive end of the ground. It is a long turnaround and there is more pain we have to go through, I'm afraid. Need to move on from Dunn and Garland and so Hunt, Wagner and OMac are the future. We must deal with it, and as such, must deal with another year out of the finals.

Harsh reality.

It's not the fact we lose or the individual goals that are scored that are the problem, it's OMac himself.

He panics when he gets the ball. He makes bad decisions. He fumbles. He drops the ball. He loses his man in traffic. He gets outbodied and outpositioned. He looks lost in transition.

He did things better than last week but the bar was set on the ground. He isn't good enough right now.

Send him back to Casey, tell him we've seen enough to think he's got what it takes but now he needs to work on the above things at the VFL, instead of in the AFL where he is getting belted weekly.

I notice a few times that he relaxes in the chase and leads to someone being free in open play to allow opposition to snatch goals

they need to work on his endurance capacity

I couldn't work his selection out this week but thaught he was okay today.

27 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

It's not the fact we lose or the individual goals that are scored that are the problem, it's OMac himself.

He panics when he gets the ball. He makes bad decisions. He fumbles. He drops the ball. He loses his man in traffic. He gets outbodied and outpositioned. He looks lost in transition.

He did things better than last week but the bar was set on the ground. He isn't good enough right now.

Send him back to Casey, tell him we've seen enough to think he's got what it takes but now he needs to work on the above things at the VFL, instead of in the AFL where he is getting belted weekly.

shhhh you're talking  nonsense

Oscar and brother back to Casey.

5 minutes ago, ThreeOneSix said:

Oscar and brother back to Casey.

Obviously, Tom stays, but the number of times he let the ball past him today in the wet was extremely frustrating.

Watch a player like Jetta, always keeps the ball in front of him.

He is incredibly slow.

I don't think I can cope with 2 McDonalds for the next 7-8 years. 

Just now, ThreeOneSix said:

Oscar and brother back to Casey.

Of course, what a plan!

So with Garland also out injured, who are the TWO to come in who go with Frost?  Remember, they need to be better than both McDonald boys.

I look forward to your answer.

Out of curiosity, were any of the people who thought OMac was good today actually at the game?

Because I was, and I haven't been a big critic of him but today he was insipid, weak, lost and confused. Now, that's just today, and there is hope for him, but you can't possibly think he was good today. Beaten in nearly every contest.