5 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Must keep:

Frost

OMac

TMac

Wagner

These boys will become a fortress together.

Add Jetta and Hunt and you have a very raw very, young rebounding defence that needs to play as many games together as possible to gell more as a unit. Or like many keep saying we could just trade Tmac drop Omac and start a new rebuild I supose most of us are use to that by now. 

35 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Then why did you say 'it was one of life's great mysteries'? 

And it wasn't 'stupid'.  There were a lot more players to go play defence than up forward at the beginning of the season.  The club had little choice!!

Because he's not a forward's A-hole.

15 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

 

That empty spot needs to be a 190cm or so defender, as the three smaller guys have the smaller opponents covered.  Wagner is the obvious choice. 

Wagner needs to sharpen up his kicking. We have enough people in the backline who can't kick, TMac, Frost, Wagner,....turnover balls in the backline and it results in demoralising goals against you. Plus you cannot launch effective attacks.

Defenders that can't kick have to weeded out.

 

5 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Because he's not a forward's A-hole.

He was a 'last resort' option - no harm in trying him up forward for just 4 or 5 games.

You disagree.  Fine.  No reason to be personally abusive.

1 minute ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

He was a 'last resort' option - no harm in trying him up forward for just 4 or 5 games.

You disagree.  Fine.  No reason to be personally abusive.

Abusive to whom ?

Edited July 26, 20169 yr by ProDee

2 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Abusive to whom ?

Apologies, I reacted to the words so misinterpreted your post. 

2 hours ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Add Jetta and Hunt and you have a very raw very, young rebounding defence that needs to play as many games together as possible to gell more as a unit. Or like many keep saying we could just trade Tmac drop Omac and start a new rebuild I supose most of us are use to that by now. 

Agree.

Please no more effen rebuilds....

I think the really positive thing for our backline is this year we're playing Hunt, Wagner, O'mac and Frost who are all under 40 games and T'mac and Jetta who aren't old either, and they're working with a totally different system to the last two years and we're only plus 2 points per game but +4 goals a game as well.

really like Frost at CHB

Yeah, cannot be understated how young our backline is and how much development they have ahead of them.. Gee when I look through that list, we have some poor kick among them- with the exception of Jetta.

5 hours ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Add Jetta and Hunt and you have a very raw very, young rebounding defence that needs to play as many games together as possible to gell more as a unit. Or like many keep saying we could just trade Tmac drop Omac and start a new rebuild I supose most of us are use to that by now. 

Agree and posted similar in the VFL Finals are importannt thread.

5 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Wagner needs to sharpen up his kicking. We have enough people in the backline who can't kick, TMac, Frost, Wagner,....turnover balls in the backline and it results in demoralising goals against you. Plus you cannot launch effective attacks.

Defenders that can't kick have to weeded out.

 

Agree, though funnily enough his kicking was good in the first few games he played. He seems to have made more howlers in the last few.

6 hours ago, stuie said:

Drop Roos an email and let him know then. I'm sure he'll shudder at the feared opinion of "ProDee".

 

Best to keep the snark for when PD is wrong, I reckon....

7 hours ago, ProDee said:

The fact the club took so long to settle Frost in defence is one of life's great mysteries.

but what would you do when Dunn was playing career best football and Garland was doing his job on a flank with TMac the other key defender?. there just wasn't a spot for him.

4 minutes ago, binman said:

Agree, though funnily enough his kicking was good in the first few games he played. He seems to have made more howlers in the last few.

I recall that before the bye Wagner had played a number of weeks with pain killing injections for a knee injury and was said to be out for up to a month.  Came back after 2 weeks. Wouldn't be surprised if he is playing injured and his knee affects his kicking.

26 minutes ago, Undeeterred said:

Best to keep the snark for when PD is wrong, I reckon....

He is wrong, because the master of "nuance" has totally missed the whole point behind why Frost was playing forward...

 

5 hours ago, stuie said:

He is wrong, because the master of "nuance" has totally missed the whole point behind why Frost was playing forward...

 

I don't think he has at all.

Just because we all get the 'point' of it, doesn't mean it wasn't stupid.

9 hours ago, Abe said:

I think the really positive thing for our backline is this year we're playing Hunt, Wagner, O'mac and Frost who are all under 40 games and T'mac and Jetta who aren't old either, and they're working with a totally different system to the last two years and we're only plus 2 points per game but +4 goals a game as well.

really like Frost at CHB

Great post, mate. Agreed. What I find really exciting about this is that these guys will basically grow up learning this system (and the tweaks applied to it over time). If all goes well, it's the only system Hunt, Wagner, OMac and Frost will play in their first 50-100 games. A lot easier than trying to get a bunch of older guys learning a new system. 

I've posted about our defence a bit recently, but it's one area of the ground that I think we've steadily improved all season and it's taken persistence and continuity. That's one thing this FD does well. We can debate whether Frost should have played forward or back earlier in the season, but one thing we know for sure is he was given enough run at it. 

Our mids are also owed a bit of a nod, as it's their pressure that has enabled our defence to hold relatively tight given our offensive focus. Incidentally, our midfield has clearly improved in contested possessions, uncontested possessions and clearances this year. If we continue on this upward trajectory, it won't be long before we're challenging for the top 4. We're not as far back as the ladder would suggest. And I see Frost becoming a really important weapon in our defensive/offensive transition.

8 hours ago, binman said:

Agree, though funnily enough his kicking was good in the first few games he played. He seems to have made more howlers in the last few.

I found his kicking to be really pin-point in the first half of the season. I suspect the rigours of a full AFL season are catching up with him. I'd also argue he's kicking in a more consistently offensive fashion, which obviously opens him up to more turn overs.

6 hours ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

I found his kicking to be really pin-point in the first half of the season. I suspect the rigours of a full AFL season are catching up with him. I'd also argue he's kicking in a more consistently offensive fashion, which obviously opens him up to more turn overs.

I find the commentary interesting. I actually think Wagner's kicking and/or decision making have been a weakness all season. I'm not sold on him at all TBH and think he will become a Casey regular if we recruit Hibberd and bring Melksham into the mix. I actually don't think we should rookie upgrade him yet for that reason.

7 hours ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

I found his kicking to be really pin-point in the first half of the season. I suspect the rigours of a full AFL season are catching up with him. I'd also argue he's kicking in a more consistently offensive fashion, which obviously opens him up to more turn overs.

What has made me a little more relaxed about some of the bad kicking is how pin point it is to the opposition's chest. Like a bullet. That's telling me he still can kick and kick at the highest level, but the pressure is getting to him, which is understandable being such a long season. 

Sam Frost had a great games against the weagles. Showed why I and many others believe he will develop into a very very good FB or CHB.  He is not a forward and it was strange that he was tried there when we obviously needed another key defender.

10 hours ago, Undeeterred said:

I don't think he has at all.

Just because we all get the 'point' of it, doesn't mean it wasn't stupid.

Yeah you're right, we should have put Kennedy at CHF...

 

8 hours ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

I found his kicking to be really pin-point in the first half of the season. I suspect the rigours of a full AFL season are catching up with him. I'd also argue he's kicking in a more consistently offensive fashion, which obviously opens him up to more turn overs.

No it was never like that. He had his share of howlers early on as well.

53 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

No it was never like that. He had his share of howlers early on as well.

I disagree. I found the majority of his kicks hit the target early on.

19 hours ago, Abe said:

I think the really positive thing for our backline is this year we're playing Hunt, Wagner, O'mac and Frost who are all under 40 games and T'mac and Jetta who aren't old either, and they're working with a totally different system to the last two years and we're only plus 2 points per game but +4 goals a game as well.

really like Frost at CHB

I agree it is positive but I can't see us really progressing in the next year or two with such a young inexperienced backline. Who is the leader back there? who organises? 

All top 4 teams have several senior experienced leaders in the back half.  thats why we need to recruit a senior tall defender in the off season - Hurley would be perfect.  or we will keep losing games when we have double the inside 50's (not discounting our missed shots at goals that also lost us the game)